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Salafi Community Continues To Grow In The UK
- Thread starter Lebron James
- Start date
The time I started hearing this was when I got into college and started listening to more Islamic lectures and stuff online, the main contention I had with them is they are too confusing, I am a 16 year old kid who knws nothing about the religion and I have different people accusing each other of being misguided and a kuffar and deviant,
what I ended up having to do as watching every single online speaker and seeing what they are about for myself, 98% of what they talk about is the same, they disagree on 2% of things and make a housewives of beverly hills drama show about it, it is cringy for me to see this and also really annoying as I am constantly second guessing myself to know who is right, I don't have anyone in real life to tell me the truth so I have to find out myself, and I may be completely wrong in the proccess.
Right now I don't listen to any Islamic youtubers except for a lecture here and there on a specific topic I want to watch or a speaker I really like, otherwise I'm not into online drama
For me all this drama and argumentation just reminds me of when I was in school and people would constantly be in beef over silly things. None of it was sincere to me, plus alot of the points they made were straight up lies, alot of the hyped up youth who listened to them and spewed their arguments online just seemed weird to me.
Anyway my point is, all I needed to do was look at the manners of the people I listened to, and from their I deduced whether I listen to them or not, because it was clear to me, that when I started practising, that Islam takes a certain cut of cloth to practice properly, most Muslims will never even do it and they think by doing less than the baer minimum they are practising, my point being, I can sus out a fake religious person or someone who is just following their nafs,
Which is why, all the stuff I here in a lecture now, I actually go home and research it, ask teachers for their opinions on it and ikhtilaaf, go read books, I had to learn arabic in a few months during A-levels just to be able to understand the deen better, What I realised is, life is way more complicated and there are so many grey areas and these people are making it seem black and white, its misguiding the youth and also jus
Yes, that is the key, if you feel something is wrong, it usually is, if your around religious people, they should always be increasing you in iman, and wrong feeling you get in your heart is usually and indication something that isn't right is happening
You've been on this website for how long?
Also can I see those sources they are mentioning?
My main thing with MIAW, is that he is gassed up so much, I read his books, they seem pretty simple, some of the stuff I find questionable, also I don't understand why they are taught so much, for example the 3 principles, I know people who have memorised it off by heart, yh its a good book, but why don't we teach any other books on Islam, why is it always the same few books all salafis teach? There are thousands of books in arabic on foundations of Islam but only MIAW gets taught
Abu Hesi
VIP
Can you post the questionable "stuff" by the Sheikh here?
World
VIP
They call themselves Salafis, because they believe they only follow the Salaf who are from the first 300 years, but the main books they teach is from a man in the 18th century.
This is because Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab said that nobody knew Tawheed or Islam before him, none of his “Sheikhs”, no scholar in the entire region, only him. Who taught him Tawheed then? Did he receive revelation?
“And I inform you about myself – I swear by Allah whom there is none worthy to worship except Him – I have sought knowledge and those who knew me believed that I had knowledge while I did not know the meaning of La Ilaha illa Allah at that time and did not know the religion of Islam before this grace that Allah favored. As well as my teachers (Mashayikh) no one among them knew that. And if someone from the scholars of al-‘Aridh (the lands of Najd and surrounding areas) claims that he knew the meaning of La Ilaha illa Allah or knew the meaning of Islam before this time, or claims on behalf of his teachers that someone from them knew that, then he has lied and said falsehood and deceived the people and praised himself with something he does not possess.”
Source: al-Rasa`il al-Shakhsiyyah and al-Durar al-Saniyyah 10/51
Reading MIAWs bio, he comes to me as a narcissist. Most of his work was inspired by ibn taymiyyah may Allah have mercy on him. He really comes off as deluded and grandiose how can you say you are the only person who knows true tawheed
YH but in reality they follow their scholars over the salaf so it makes no sense
World already posted one of them
Abu Hesi
VIP
Both links are not working
World
VIP
al durar al saniyyah (10/51) is the source. It is a book written about the complication of the work of MIAW to defend their ideology.
World
VIP
There is a lot of crazy things MIAW says, like for example that the majority of people in al-Sham worship other than Allah and only a small number of Muslims live there. They boast about killing and pillaging innocent miskeen Muslims in Sham because they’re all mushriks and this is “war booty”.
That the majority of people in Makkah and Madinah reject the resurrection after death etc. They stopped people from other Muslim lands from doing Hajj and Umrah because they’re all mushriks, which has never happened in Islamic history. Luckily the Ottomans (who were also mushriks btw according to them) liberated and destroyed these khawarij.
They’re the original khawarij which Al Shabab and ISIS get their inspiration from.
That the majority of people in Makkah and Madinah reject the resurrection after death etc. They stopped people from other Muslim lands from doing Hajj and Umrah because they’re all mushriks, which has never happened in Islamic history. Luckily the Ottomans (who were also mushriks btw according to them) liberated and destroyed these khawarij.
They’re the original khawarij which Al Shabab and ISIS get their inspiration from.
World
VIP
Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahabb said:
لكن هو أتى من الشام، وهم يعبدون ابن عربي، جاعلين على قبره صنما يعبدونه، ولست أعني أهل الشام كلهم، حاشا وكلا; بل لا تزال طائفة على الحق، وإن قلّت، واغتربت
"But he came from al-Sham, and they worship Ibn 'Arabi and have made an idol upon his grave to worship it. I do not mean all of the people of al-Sham, no of course not; rather there does not cease a group [from them] to be upon the truth, even if they're only few."
Source: al-Durar al-Saniyyah 2/45
Ibn Bishr proudly reported in his 'Unwan al-Majd the following incident which happened in the year 1225 AH:
بلغه الخبر أن بوادي الشام وعربانه من عنزة وبني صخر وغيرهم فيها , فلما وصل تلك الناحية لم يجد فيها أحداً منهم , وإذا قد سبقه النذير إليهم , فاجتمعوا على دوخي بن سمير رئيس ولد علي من عنزة , وهو من وراء الجبل المعروف بطويل الثلج قرب نابلس , نازلين عين القهوة من جبال حوران , ولما بلغ ابن سمير ومن معه إقبال سعود إليهم انهزم بمن معه من البوادي ونزلوا الغور من حوران , فسار سعود في تلك الناحية , وأقبل فيها وأدبر , واجتاز بالقرى التي حول مزيريب وبصرى , فنهبت الجموع ما وجدوا فيها من المتاع والطعام , وأشعلوا فيها النيران , وكان أهلها قد هربوا عنها لما سمعوا بمسيره , ثم نزل عين البجة , وروى منها المسلمون!! وشربت خيلهم وجيوشهم....
ثم رجع قافلاً إلى وطنه ومعه غنائم كثيرة من الخيل والمتاع , والأثاث والطعام , وقتل من أهل الشام عدّة قتلى , وحصل في الشام رجفة ورهب عظيم بهذه الغزوة , في دمشق وغيرها من بلدانه وجميع بواديه
Source: 'Unwan al-Majd 1/309-310
Here it is described how they robbed the property of Muslims, burned their things down and how the people had fled from the areas they were attacking. It's also mentioned that a number of people from al-Sham got killed and that this attack (he refers to it as a Ghazwah) caused a huge fear in the hearts of the people of al-Sham - especially those in Dimashq (Damascus) and other towns and villages.
Salafism is a cult made up of hypocrites who live double lives, their extremism comes from the guilt and the shame Allah has burden them with.
For trying to destroy his beautiful religion of peace, mercy, tolerance and forgiveness. Into a khawaarij wet dream sponsored by Saudi oil money.
Everything they proclaim to hate is what they are in secret, like how being gay is illegal in Arab and Asian countries. Even though it’s widely practiced in private gatherings.
Both Somali men and woman who join this cult are lost sheeps, looking to be reborn again. Like extreme evangelicals, who are caught in more scandals, then the Godless liberals they supposedly look down.
For trying to destroy his beautiful religion of peace, mercy, tolerance and forgiveness. Into a khawaarij wet dream sponsored by Saudi oil money.
Everything they proclaim to hate is what they are in secret, like how being gay is illegal in Arab and Asian countries. Even though it’s widely practiced in private gatherings.
Both Somali men and woman who join this cult are lost sheeps, looking to be reborn again. Like extreme evangelicals, who are caught in more scandals, then the Godless liberals they supposedly look down.
AdoonkaAlle
Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
I actually spent the last 3 hours listening to him but damn I cannot accept what he is saying.
I'll come back to the quraysh issue later but from what I understand he's saying that if you go to a grave and call to a dead person...it doesn't mean you're associating partners with Allah unless you do that call intending worship and believing that the object of your call is a diety.
Ma fahmi kari sheekahaas. So if I go to a grave of a deceased righteous person and say "yaa sheikh please help me have a child" it doesn't equate to making dua of worship and in turn becoming shirk?
But prophet s.a.w said
عن النعمان بن بشير، رضي الله عنه ، أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، قال: إن الدعاء هو العبادة ، ثم قرأ: " ادعوني أستجب لكم، إن الذين يستكبرون عن عبادتي [غافر: 60] " ، رواه "أحمد" في "المسند" (18352)، و"البخاري" في "الأدب المفرد" (714
The Prophet said: “The supplication, is worship.” Then he recited: And Your Lord said: “Call upon me, I will respond to you. Verily, those who scorn My worship, they will surely enter Hell humiliated."(surah ghaafir ayat 60)
In this hadeeth the prophet s.a.w said "dua is worship" and used the ayat from the quran to further strengthen his statement showing that calling upon Allah equals worship.
And in surah ahqaaf Allah azzawajal says
5. وَمَنْ أَضَلُّ مِمَّنْ يَدْعُو مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ مَنْ لَا يَسْتَجِيبُ لَهُ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ وَهُمْ عَنْ دُعَائِهِمْ غَافِلُونَ
6. وَإِذَا حُشِرَ النَّاسُ كَانُوا لَهُمْ أَعْدَاءً وَكَانُوا بِعِبَادَتِهِمْ كَافِرِينَ
And who is more astray than one who invokes besides Allah, such as will not answer him to the Day of Judgment, and who (in fact) are unconscious of their call (to them)?.
And when mankind are gathered together (at the Resurrection), they will be hostile to them and reject their worship (altogether)!
And here the mushrikeens calling of other than Allah is classed as worship by Allah. Why did Allah tie together that calling/invoking..making dua is worship?
So from what I've learnt and understand is that of course if someone calls on to a deceased in the grave that is a form of worship. Why would someone call upon someone in the grave if they didn't believe that person could hear and answer their call? Isn't that worship that should be directed to only Allah?
So if I'm in trouble one day and shout out " yaa sheikh jeylaani please help me"...isn't that dua? Am I not asking for his help? Isnt that callings upon other than Allah? Isn't that associating partners with Allah?
Or is it fine as long as I don't intend that call to be worship(which it is) and I don't believe that the object of my call is a god/partner besides Allah(which I do otherwise i would've asked Allah directly) ? Does that even make sense? Or is it fine if i believe that they are only intercessors to Allah? How is it any different to those Allah mentions in the ayat below?
3. أَلَا لِلَّهِ الدِّينُ الْخَالِصُ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُوا مِنْ دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاءَ مَا نَعْبُدُهُمْ إِلَّا لِيُقَرِّبُونَا إِلَى اللَّهِ زُلْفَىٰ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَحْكُمُ بَيْنَهُمْ فِي مَا هُمْ فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي مَنْ هُوَ كَاذِبٌ كَفَّارٌ
Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya’ (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): “We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah.” Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.(surah zumar ayat 6)
I can understand the issues against ibnu abdul wahaab or if a person has qualms about dacwa salafiya laakin how can we say that calling upon people in the graves is not a form of worship? And not shirk?
Wallahi that video is going to confuse a lot of people imo and opens the door for a lot of evil.
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World
VIP
It is haram without a doubt and the expression is shirk but unless they believe that the Sheikh can help independent of Allah it isn’t major shirk that takes you out of the fold of Islam.
Garaad diinle
Wither it's a major shirk kharij 'n al-mila or a small shirk ghayr mukhrij 'n al-mila it's shirk nonetheless. Anyone justifying istighatha bi ghayr allah is justifying a form of shirk.
Asking someone for help is dua, and thats not shirk, their is only a special type of dua you make to Allah, which is the religious one, and the one where you believe only Allah can help you
Asking a sheikh to make dua for you is not shirk
Asking a sheikh to help you out while he is in his grave can get close to shirk depending on whether you believe he can independently help you or not and if he has an attribute like Allah, which is being able to hear all things,
Hamzza
VIP
Why would you go to the grave and beg if you believe the person inside the grave cannot help you?
إشفيلي إبني والنبي يا شيخ العرب-
رميت حمولي عليكم يا شيخ العرب-
Do you think this happening in the grave of Sayyid Ahmed Al-Badawi is Shirk or not?رميت حمولي عليكم يا شيخ العرب-
Are they asking the person to make dua for them or to just help them?
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