Puntland Is It The Richest Region In Somalia

[Buskud]

This thread



Indha adakaa dadkani.

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

I think that introduction point is refuting the argument your raising which is a straw-man fallacy. They are saying no national study or research can be viewed as legitimate if it doesn't take into consideration variables such as poor people, illiteracy, abadoned, homeless, hungry, the sick. It's saying if these variables are not accounted for it will be very problematic to provide any economic guide to regions and their development needs because what are you going to develop if you don't basically know where the problems are. This study clearly then presents a case study on all those variables and therefore saying how legitimate it's research is and should be taken as a guide to development policies for each region.

I am pretty sure @Cotton Eyed Joe is going to respond furiously at you brother, because I haven't even read what comes after that introduction and I am sure he will, I am just giving you the heads up on the straw-man fallacy you presented!!!

I can't respond to it cause it's outside the realm of reality he's literally refuting numbers and mathematics. How do you respond to a person like that? He is can't tell us what's wrong with the methodology because he has not read it! This is the low literacy rate the report must be talking about.

The man is a fraud and we must continue to cite the study as it is the latest and most reliable statistical analysis of Somali poverty indicators. Anyone who reads this post can tell he has no leg to stand up, he's simply inadequate to read even the introduction and methodology let alone the whole report.

Last time when I pressed him on the validity of the report he tried to change the topic by saying we are all poor so why does it matter? Well the question in my head is, who is the poorest and the study clearly indicates that Puntland outperforms Somaliland in most if not all serious economic indicators. That's the point and that Somaliland has 27 years of so-called independence but it still managed to be poorer than the rest of Somalia that's quite laughable.

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

I have heard that you will see some pretty low stuff in mogadishu or hargeisa, especially what one will do for money and you won't find it in PL. For example carrying people's bag for money is well known in mogadishu and hargeisa and unknown in PL. For example being a cook or a waiter or other menial type of work is unknown in PL. They got yemenis in bosaso doing that stuff or other clans and in garowe u see pakistanis and indians carrying out those functions.

It's just suprising cause these reports regardless of source that come out are constantly repeating the same theme that PL has less poverty, so I had to pay attention now. It's just to repetitive t o ignore any longer.

During Faroole's years Puntland put emphasis on vocational training with support from the EU so you will see all kinds of professions however in Somaliland they like to look down on blue collar work. It would be funny if it was not ridiculous.

 

[Adam Isaaq]

How is somaliland army more powerful tukaraq belongs to dhulbhante it’s their right to support somaliland if they so choose and if you think Puntland will attack dhulbhante on their own land then you have another thing coming we are not the aggressors and we don’t require other tribes land for icitiraaf.

Be careful. We are just getting started.

I can't respond to it cause it's outside the realm of reality he's literally refuting numbers and mathematics. How do you respond to a person like that? He is can't tell us what's wrong with the methodology because he has not read it! This is the low literacy rate the report must be talking about.

The man is a fraud and we must continue to cite the study as it is the latest and most reliable statistical analysis of Somali poverty indicators. Anyone who reads this post can tell he has no leg to stand up, he's simply inadequate to read even the introduction and methodology let alone the whole report.

Last time when I pressed him on the validity of the report he tried to change the topic by saying we are all poor so why does it matter? Well the question in my head is, who is the poorest and the study clearly indicates that Puntland outperforms Somaliland in most if not all serious economic indicators. That's the point and that Somaliland has 27 years of so-called independence but it still managed to be poorer than the rest of Somalia that's quite laughable.

I offered a methodological refutation and citation. I will provide for you something else, seeing as you love reports by foreign NGO's/Organizations, here is one prepared by Oxfam. It concerns food security. It shows that all of Puntland is under a state of crisis or emergency in terms of food security. You have to go west of Burco to find areas that are only stressed, and south of Hiraan. Again, I cannot rely on this as an accurate representation of the facts, as there is no way of gathering the information accurately, so I wouldn't say 'Puntlanders are hungrier than Somalilanders', as the statement is meaningless.

Let me give you an idea of the problems that are faced in relation to this. I read today two population estimates for Hargeisa, one was 450k, the other was 1.2 million. The former was based on an academic making projections based on population density of similar metropolitan areas and the size of Hargeisa in sq km, the second was provided by the government. When you don't have reliable institutions, the possibility of undertaking effective research is undermined. There is no foundation for effective statistical analysis. That is my point, and I provided a reference for you to see that elaborated in more detail. You can say, we should rely on this as it is all we have, but I wouldn't cite it with any confidence that it means anything. That's all I am saying.

The reason for the lack of development in Somaliland has been because a majority of government expenditures have been spent on security services. When you combine that with corruption, and the fact that the access to capital is generally limited, there has been a failure of development at the state level. There has also been a failure of coordination among the expat communities, which has resulted in failures to invest in sectors which would create meaningful employment opportunities.

 

[DR OSMAN]

View attachment 37830

Be careful. We are just getting started.


I offered a methodological refutation and citation. I will provide for you something else, seeing as you love reports by foreign NGO's/Organizations, here is one prepared by Oxfam. It concerns food security. It shows that all of Puntland is under a state of crisis or emergency in terms of food security. You have to go west of Burco to find areas that are only stressed, and south of Hiraan. Again, I cannot rely on this as an accurate representation of the facts, as there is no way of gathering the information accurately, so I wouldn't say 'Puntlanders are hungrier than Somalilanders', as the statement is meaningless.

Let me give you an idea of the problems that are faced in relation to this. I read today two population estimates for Hargeisa, one was 450k, the other was 1.2 million. The former was based on an academic making projections based on population density of similar metropolitan areas and the size of Hargeisa in sq km, the second was provided by the government. When you don't have reliable institutions, the possibility of undertaking effective research is undermined. There is no foundation for effective statistical analysis. That is my point, and I provided a reference for you to see that elaborated in more detail. You can say, we should rely on this as it is all we have, but I wouldn't cite it with any confidence that it means anything. That's all I am saying.

The reason for the lack of development in Somaliland has been because a majority of government expenditures have been spent on security services. When you combine that with corruption, and the fact that the access to capital is generally limited, there has been a failure of development at the state level. There has also been a failure of coordination among the expat communities, which has resulted in failures to invest in sectors which would create meaningful employment opportunities.

View attachment 37829

No offence brother but those look like 'drought' related food security, not economical!!! They only deal with droughts. I am pretty sure @Cotton Eyed Joe won't waste his time responding. Bro bring something that is relevant to the topic or just accept the outcome that Puntland is far richer then other states!!!

http://www.fsnau.org/in-focus/somalia-food-security-alert

 

[Adam Isaaq]

No offence brother but those look like 'drought' related food security, not economical!!! They only deal with droughts. I am pretty sure @Cotton Eyed Joe won't waste his time responding. Bro bring something that is relevant to the topic or just accept the outcome that Puntland is far richer then other states!!!

http://www.fsnau.org/in-focus/somalia-food-security-alert

The point I am trying to make is this. There is not an information base to make reliable estimates, because there is no capacity and the incentives are distorted in favour of reporting information for strategic purposes. Food security is a relevant measure as if Puntland is so 'rich' why does it not have resilience?

 

[Adam Isaaq]

No offence brother but those look like 'drought' related food security, not economical!!! They only deal with droughts. I am pretty sure @Cotton Eyed Joe won't waste his time responding. Bro bring something that is relevant to the topic or just accept the outcome that Puntland is far richer then other states!!!

http://www.fsnau.org/in-focus/somalia-food-security-alert

Btw, I'm from North Hargeisa, we are richer than you all. But that is neither here nor there.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The point I am trying to make is this. There is not an information base to make reliable estimates, because there is no capacity and the incentives are distorted in favour of reporting information for strategic purposes. Food security is a relevant measure as if Puntland is so 'rich' why does it not have resilience?

PL is becoming more resilient, maybe u forgot there is like 10 dams under-construction. Nomads will have multiple water sources from wells to rain and to dams, to make them with-stand droughts and be resilient. If that is achieved and they get water, they're livestock will thrive and reproduce and they will have a food source also. I think @Cotton Eyed Joe isn't even responding, DAMN THAT SAYS A-LOT ABOUT HIM NOT BEING INTERESTED!!!!

 

[DR OSMAN]

Btw, I'm from North Hargeisa, we are richer than you all. But that is neither here nor there.

Whatever you say brother, every man has a right to a dream, I won't take that away from you but when you wake up, let me know cause the facts are anything but 'dream-like' !!!

 

[amboli]

Somalis arguing about which gobol is the richest when the entire country is one of the poorest countries on Earth.


We gotta do better as a people...


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