Oromo ancestry and relationship to Somali questions

[convincation]

I have Gurgura and Akisho great grand parent (each one) and my moms subclan is said to have mixed a lot with Akisho who seeked refuge from other belligerent Somali clans. Just like the brother’s DNA showed, I think all Akisho and Jaarso would be mostly Somali dna wise but the origin of their tribal affiliation is Oromo

Akisho are probably oromos but jarso can’t be. I feel like all oromos avoid this question but how can jarso be oromo when they headed the sultanate of dawaro which existed in the 10th century in hararghe, oromos only expanded into hararghe around the 15th-16th century which is over 500 years after jarso were already mentioned as dir somalis is who had an entire sultanate

 

[Proud Oromian]

Time for me to claim oromumma then

Oromummaan Faaya!

 

[AfranQallo]

What is your paternal haplogroup?

E-V32
Maternal m1a1

 

[Som]

What is his name?

Kawa Tona was his name, he was the last king of the Woylata before they were conquered by Menelik II

 

[Arabsiyawi]

E-V32
Maternal m1a1

Bro, will you ever be willing to take a Y-full test ?

 

[AfranQallo]

Bro, will you ever be willing to take a Y-full test ?

The question is, what is a Y-full test? And what kind of info does it provide?

 

[Arabsiyawi]

The question is, what is a Y-full test? And what kind of info does it provide?

It’s a test that breaks down your paternal lineage very precisely, it can tell you when u last had a paternal ancestor in common with C Y or Z person, Y-full has a tree online where they upload every willing participant’s results. For exemple, I belong to this very specific lineage of haplogroup T : https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-FGC92488/.
U can do it through FTDNA’s Big Y test and then upload the results to YFulls websites. I’m sorry I probably explained this in a very messy way but it’s very late here in Europe lol

 

[anonimo]

@Proud Oromian @AfranQallo What are your stances on the few Somali Tribes that are said to be Oromo, like the Jaarso, Gurgura and Akisho ? I'm very curious because so far, I've sen somalis having very different opinions regarding them. I used to think they were Somali, but I was shown otherwise by a few brothers

It ain't Black and White bro, the exception being Gurgura who are listed as one of the Somali clans that contributed heavily to Ahmed Gurey's campaign and were never fully assimilated into the Oromo clan structure.

The Jaarso and Akisho are not fully Somali nor are they fully Oromo in my opinion. It depends on their individual sub.....subclan within the Afran Qallo confederation. This subject has already been debated by myself and Afran Qallo in the below thread and eslewhere.

Somalis were native to Hararghe until the Oromo expansion after the weakening of Adal Sultanate.

Guji were not originally Oromo, but their neighbors and cousins, their homeland is Girja to the southwest of Mada Walabu. Warra Dayyo were not originally Oromo either, but a related tribe who lived in Liban immediately south of the Mada Walabu. This is kind of a matter of semantics really. By...

www.somalispot.com

The Oromos have a practice of assimilation called Mogasha. When they expanded into the Harar area, some Somalis either joined them voluntarily or were forcibly assimilated, only Allah knows what exactly happened though. What is likely though is that some Somalis abandoned Islam in the process of assimilating into the Gada system as can be corroborated by Afran Qallo. Any AQ individual whose Abtirsi contains distant Muslim/Somali names is not of Oromo origin as the AQ had not fully abandoned their pagan ways until the Egyptian Harar expedition, and Menelik's campaign in Harar which decimated their pagan Gada rituals. The Jaarso that you mention are part of the Daga branch of Afro Qallo and have only recently been associated with a strictly Somali identity. Nonetheless, several of their subclans are of Somali origin, be it Daarood or Dir. You have Warra Absame, Warra Balcad, Warra Cusman and Warra Cumar etc. The first two are of Daarood origin, the latter two are of Dir origin. At some point in History, the ancestors of these clans joined the AQ confederacy. The Akisho also have sub sub subclans that have clearly Somali names. Somalis were not the only ones to be assimilated, other AQ sub sub subclans are of Harla, Agrobba or possibly even Afar origin. The demography of the entire region was upended by the Oromo expansion into the region. One of the AQ Noole subclans closest to Harar are the Mana Abu. They are mainly of Somali Dir origin as can be corroborated again by Afran Qallo. Only one subclan within the Mana Abu is of Daarood origin.`

To illustrate how fluid the Somali, Oromo identity is within the AQ confederacy, look at the breakdown of the Babile section of the Afran Qallo. A large percentage of them are of Hawiye origin, be it Gugundhabe or Karanle Hawiye. This is an open secret. Moreover, the Warra Huume now contain the entire Barsug/Barsub clan. This is a clearly Somali clan that took part in the Futuh Al Habash wars and was listed as Somali Dir in Richard Burton's 19th century book. Today, they are known as Warra Bursuk. If you ever have the opportunity to travel to K5 in the coming years, travel through East Hararghe and visit Fayanbiro, Harar, Babile etc. and do some field research. You will be surprised at how many of those folk have Somali ancestry.

Wherever the original Oromos expanded, they formed a minority elite that gradually assimilated the conquered people they came across hence their great numbers in Ethiopia and the diversity of their features. Entire Kingdoms, many Muslim, were destroyed and assimilated by the expanding Oromos. The Hadiya who now constitute a large section of Arsi are a prime example of this. Gunther Schlee's research into the Oromos is an eye opener regarding the successful assimilationist practices of the Oromo. Read his book, Being and Becoming Oromo, if you get the chance. This is an extract from a rebuttal he made to an academic who was peddling the Oromo Nationalist lies about the identity of the Gabra.

Since the 16th century, the Oromo have expanded from one end of what now is Ethiopia to the other and beyond. In the course of this expansion many people joined their fold. One reason of this was that they wanted to avoid the consequences of ritual warfare many Oromo groups waged against non-Oromo neighbours (and each other), but to speak of forceful incorporation only does not appear to describe the incentives for becoming Oromo adequately. There are obvious advantages in belonging to a strong group or alliance33 and in speaking a language of wider currency. In the South, the Oromo in question were the Boran34, and submitting to them was the submission to a power which was hegemonic, I insist, but not oppressive. The new-comers not only had the lower status but also the privileges of younger brothers35. As a result of these incorporation processes, the majority of the ancestors of those, who now speak Oromo, did not speak Oromo in the 16th century. The majority of the modern Arsi Oromo might have spoken Hadiya, and among the Western Oromo (Wollega) there is a saying that the “Borana” (here in the sense of original Oromo) are one and the gabarti (dependents, newcomers) are nine. Instead of deriving pride from this success story of incorporation and from the attraction the Oromo way of life has had for others, modern Oromo nationalists follow the standard patterns of modern ethnic nationalisms in claiming an immutable ethnic identity and autochthony. As this view is hard to combine with historical facts, they have to hammer it down into people’s heads by constant repetition. However, as I have often stressed in my theoretical writings, identities are not freely invented or fabricated and cannot be changed at will. Sometimes claims, which are historically absurd, do get accepted by popular opinion. Generally, however, there is an advantage for identifications which have a degree of plausibility. In the long run, primordialist claims will not be helpful for Oromo nationalism. The real strength of the Oromo identity is in its power to combine with other social forces (like Islam in Jimma, Wollo, Bale, Arsi, Western Wollega, a.o.) and in its potential to assimilate other peoples. And contrary to the primordialist discourses, a positive identification with these elements of history would also stand the test of critical historical scrutiny.

https://www.eth.mpg.de/pubs/wps/pdf/mpi-eth-working-paper-0103.pdf

Oromo Nationalists have been churning out 'academic' propaganda to beautify their conquests and even lay claim to the coast of Northern Somali by using the traditional presence of the Akisho in Jijiga before they were scattered by Wiil Waal's Absame army. Mohammed Hassan's work is a prime example of this, and I am aware that it was indirectly quoted in the Somali E-V32 Anthrogenica thread. Will turn my attention to that thread in due time but I cannot be asked a lot of the time to challenge every Scheit that is posted on forums. Prior to the 16th century, Oromos did not have a presence anywhere in Hararghe but individuals like Mohammed Hassan are trying to rewrite History to suit an Oromo Nationalist narrative. We Somali are not Saints either as exemplified by how the Orma and Borana were displaced by their former Somali Sheegaads, the Waamo Ogaden; Garre etc. Nonetheless, we are more 'prejudiced' than the Oromo regarding the wholesale adoption of non-Somali ethnic groups.

Coming back to the question you asked, in my opinion, any Dir person that claims that Jaarso, for instance, are fully Dir is not being honest. Some of them are certainly of Dir origin as attested to by their sub subclan Abtirsi etc. but not all of them. The confusion arises, in my opinion, due to the fact that most Somalis who became assimilated into the Daga confederation are probably of Dir origin hence the easy switching of identities between Dir and Oromo among the Jaarso, for instance.

 

[convincation]

It ain't Black and White bro, the exception being Gurgura who are listed as one of the Somali clans that contributed heavily to Ahmed Gurey's campaign and were never fully assimilated into the Oromo clan structure.

The Jaarso and Akisho are not fully Somali nor are they fully Oromo in my opinion. It depends on their individual sub.....subclan within the Afran Qallo confederation. This subject has already been debated by myself and Afran Qallo in the below thread and eslewhere.

Somalis were native to Hararghe until the Oromo expansion after the weakening of Adal Sultanate.

Guji were not originally Oromo, but their neighbors and cousins, their homeland is Girja to the southwest of Mada Walabu. Warra Dayyo were not originally Oromo either, but a related tribe who lived in Liban immediately south of the Mada Walabu. This is kind of a matter of semantics really. By...

www.somalispot.com

The Oromos have a practice of assimilation called Mogasha. When they expanded into the Harar area, some Somalis either joined them voluntarily or were forcibly assimilated, only Allah knows what exactly happened though. What is likely though is that some Somalis abandoned Islam in the process of assimilating into the Gada system as can be corroborated by Afran Qallo. Any AQ individual whose Abtirsi contains distant Muslim/Somali names is not of Oromo origin as the AQ had not fully abandoned their pagan ways until the Egyptian Harar expedition, and Menelik's campaign in Harar which decimated their pagan Gada rituals. The Jaarso that you mention are part of the Daga branch of Afro Qallo and have only recently been associated with a strictly Somali identity. Nonetheless, several of their subclans are of Somali origin, be it Daarood or Dir. You have Warra Absame, Warra Balcad, Warra Cusman and Warra Cumar etc. The first two are of Daarood origin, the latter two are of Dir origin. At some point in History, the ancestors of these clans joined the AQ confederacy. The Akisho also have sub sub subclans that have clearly Somali names. Somalis were not the only ones to be assimilated, other AQ sub sub subclans are of Harla, Agrobba or possibly even Afar origin. The demography of the entire region was upended by the Oromo expansion into the region. One of the AQ Noole subclans closest to Harar are the Mana Abu. They are mainly of Somali Dir origin as can be corroborated again by Afran Qallo. Only one subclan within the Mana Abu is of Daarood origin.`

To illustrate how fluid the Somali, Oromo identity is within the AQ confederacy, look at the breakdown of the Babile section of the Afran Qallo. A large percentage of them are of Hawiye origin, be it Gugundhabe or Karanle Hawiye. This is an open secret. Moreover, the Warra Huume now contain the entire Barsug/Barsub clan. This is a clearly Somali clan that took part in the Futuh Al Habash wars and was listed as Somali Dir in Richard Burton's 19th century book. Today, they are known as Warra Bursuk. If you ever have the opportunity to travel to K5 in the coming years, travel through East Hararghe and visit Fayanbiro, Harar, Babile etc. and do some field research. You will be surprised at how many of those folk have Somali ancestry.

Wherever the original Oromos expanded, they formed a minority elite that gradually assimilated the conquered people they came across hence their great numbers in Ethiopia and the diversity of their features. Entire Kingdoms, many Muslim, were destroyed and assimilated by the expanding Oromos. The Hadiya who now constitute a large section of Arsi are a prime example of this. Gunther Schlee's research into the Oromos is an eye opener regarding the successful assimilationist practices of the Oromo. Read his book, Being and Becoming Oromo, if you get the chance. This is an extract from a rebuttal he made to an academic who was peddling the Oromo Nationalist lies about the identity of the Gabra.

https://www.eth.mpg.de/pubs/wps/pdf/mpi-eth-working-paper-0103.pdf

Oromo Nationalists have been churning out 'academic' propaganda to beautify their conquests and even lay claim to the coast of Northern Somali by using the traditional presence of the Akisho in Jijiga before they were scattered by Wiil Waal's Absame army. Mohammed Hassan's work is a prime example of this, and I am aware that it was indirectly quoted in the Somali E-V32 Anthrogenica thread. Will turn my attention to that thread in due time but I cannot be asked a lot of the time to challenge every Scheit that is posted on forums. Prior to the 16th century, Oromos did not have a presence anywhere in Hararghe but individuals like Mohammed Hassan are trying to rewrite History to suit an Oromo Nationalist narrative. We Somali are not Saints either as exemplified by how the Orma and Borana were displaced by their former Somali Sheegaads, the Waamo Ogaden; Garre etc. Nonetheless, we are more 'prejudiced' than the Oromo regarding the wholesale adoption of non-Somali ethnic groups.

Coming back to the question you asked, in my opinion, any Dir person that claims that Jaarso, for instance, are fully Dir is not being honest. Some of them are certainly of Dir origin as attested to by their sub subclan Abtirsi etc. but not all of them. The confusion arises, in my opinion, due to the fact that most Somalis who became assimilated into the Daga confederation are probably of Dir origin hence the easy switching of identities between Dir and Oromo among the Jaarso, for instance.

That thread was an interesting read. I learnt a lot from it thanks for that you and @AfranQallo

 

[Arabsiyawi]

It ain't Black and White bro, the exception being Gurgura who are listed as one of the Somali clans that contributed heavily to Ahmed Gurey's campaign and were never fully assimilated into the Oromo clan structure.

The Jaarso and Akisho are not fully Somali nor are they fully Oromo in my opinion. It depends on their individual sub.....subclan within the Afran Qallo confederation. This subject has already been debated by myself and Afran Qallo in the below thread and eslewhere.

Somalis were native to Hararghe until the Oromo expansion after the weakening of Adal Sultanate.

Guji were not originally Oromo, but their neighbors and cousins, their homeland is Girja to the southwest of Mada Walabu. Warra Dayyo were not originally Oromo either, but a related tribe who lived in Liban immediately south of the Mada Walabu. This is kind of a matter of semantics really. By...

www.somalispot.com

The Oromos have a practice of assimilation called Mogasha. When they expanded into the Harar area, some Somalis either joined them voluntarily or were forcibly assimilated, only Allah knows what exactly happened though. What is likely though is that some Somalis abandoned Islam in the process of assimilating into the Gada system as can be corroborated by Afran Qallo. Any AQ individual whose Abtirsi contains distant Muslim/Somali names is not of Oromo origin as the AQ had not fully abandoned their pagan ways until the Egyptian Harar expedition, and Menelik's campaign in Harar which decimated their pagan Gada rituals. The Jaarso that you mention are part of the Daga branch of Afro Qallo and have only recently been associated with a strictly Somali identity. Nonetheless, several of their subclans are of Somali origin, be it Daarood or Dir. You have Warra Absame, Warra Balcad, Warra Cusman and Warra Cumar etc. The first two are of Daarood origin, the latter two are of Dir origin. At some point in History, the ancestors of these clans joined the AQ confederacy. The Akisho also have sub sub subclans that have clearly Somali names. Somalis were not the only ones to be assimilated, other AQ sub sub subclans are of Harla, Agrobba or possibly even Afar origin. The demography of the entire region was upended by the Oromo expansion into the region. One of the AQ Noole subclans closest to Harar are the Mana Abu. They are mainly of Somali Dir origin as can be corroborated again by Afran Qallo. Only one subclan within the Mana Abu is of Daarood origin.`

To illustrate how fluid the Somali, Oromo identity is within the AQ confederacy, look at the breakdown of the Babile section of the Afran Qallo. A large percentage of them are of Hawiye origin, be it Gugundhabe or Karanle Hawiye. This is an open secret. Moreover, the Warra Huume now contain the entire Barsug/Barsub clan. This is a clearly Somali clan that took part in the Futuh Al Habash wars and was listed as Somali Dir in Richard Burton's 19th century book. Today, they are known as Warra Bursuk. If you ever have the opportunity to travel to K5 in the coming years, travel through East Hararghe and visit Fayanbiro, Harar, Babile etc. and do some field research. You will be surprised at how many of those folk have Somali ancestry.

Wherever the original Oromos expanded, they formed a minority elite that gradually assimilated the conquered people they came across hence their great numbers in Ethiopia and the diversity of their features. Entire Kingdoms, many Muslim, were destroyed and assimilated by the expanding Oromos. The Hadiya who now constitute a large section of Arsi are a prime example of this. Gunther Schlee's research into the Oromos is an eye opener regarding the successful assimilationist practices of the Oromo. Read his book, Being and Becoming Oromo, if you get the chance. This is an extract from a rebuttal he made to an academic who was peddling the Oromo Nationalist lies about the identity of the Gabra.

https://www.eth.mpg.de/pubs/wps/pdf/mpi-eth-working-paper-0103.pdf

Oromo Nationalists have been churning out 'academic' propaganda to beautify their conquests and even lay claim to the coast of Northern Somali by using the traditional presence of the Akisho in Jijiga before they were scattered by Wiil Waal's Absame army. Mohammed Hassan's work is a prime example of this, and I am aware that it was indirectly quoted in the Somali E-V32 Anthrogenica thread. Will turn my attention to that thread in due time but I cannot be asked a lot of the time to challenge every Scheit that is posted on forums. Prior to the 16th century, Oromos did not have a presence anywhere in Hararghe but individuals like Mohammed Hassan are trying to rewrite History to suit an Oromo Nationalist narrative. We Somali are not Saints either as exemplified by how the Orma and Borana were displaced by their former Somali Sheegaads, the Waamo Ogaden; Garre etc. Nonetheless, we are more 'prejudiced' than the Oromo regarding the wholesale adoption of non-Somali ethnic groups.

Coming back to the question you asked, in my opinion, any Dir person that claims that Jaarso, for instance, are fully Dir is not being honest. Some of them are certainly of Dir origin as attested to by their sub subclan Abtirsi etc. but not all of them. The confusion arises, in my opinion, due to the fact that most Somalis who became assimilated into the Daga confederation are probably of Dir origin hence the easy switching of identities between Dir and Oromo among the Jaarso, for instance.

thank you walaal

 

[Proud Oromian]

It ain't Black and White bro, the exception being Gurgura who are listed as one of the Somali clans that contributed heavily to Ahmed Gurey's campaign and were never fully assimilated into the Oromo clan structure.

The Jaarso and Akisho are not fully Somali nor are they fully Oromo in my opinion. It depends on their individual sub.....subclan within the Afran Qallo confederation. This subject has already been debated by myself and Afran Qallo in the below thread and eslewhere.

Somalis were native to Hararghe until the Oromo expansion after the weakening of Adal Sultanate.

Guji were not originally Oromo, but their neighbors and cousins, their homeland is Girja to the southwest of Mada Walabu. Warra Dayyo were not originally Oromo either, but a related tribe who lived in Liban immediately south of the Mada Walabu. This is kind of a matter of semantics really. By...

www.somalispot.com

The Oromos have a practice of assimilation called Mogasha. When they expanded into the Harar area, some Somalis either joined them voluntarily or were forcibly assimilated, only Allah knows what exactly happened though. What is likely though is that some Somalis abandoned Islam in the process of assimilating into the Gada system as can be corroborated by Afran Qallo. Any AQ individual whose Abtirsi contains distant Muslim/Somali names is not of Oromo origin as the AQ had not fully abandoned their pagan ways until the Egyptian Harar expedition, and Menelik's campaign in Harar which decimated their pagan Gada rituals. The Jaarso that you mention are part of the Daga branch of Afro Qallo and have only recently been associated with a strictly Somali identity. Nonetheless, several of their subclans are of Somali origin, be it Daarood or Dir. You have Warra Absame, Warra Balcad, Warra Cusman and Warra Cumar etc. The first two are of Daarood origin, the latter two are of Dir origin. At some point in History, the ancestors of these clans joined the AQ confederacy. The Akisho also have sub sub subclans that have clearly Somali names. Somalis were not the only ones to be assimilated, other AQ sub sub subclans are of Harla, Agrobba or possibly even Afar origin. The demography of the entire region was upended by the Oromo expansion into the region. One of the AQ Noole subclans closest to Harar are the Mana Abu. They are mainly of Somali Dir origin as can be corroborated again by Afran Qallo. Only one subclan within the Mana Abu is of Daarood origin.`

To illustrate how fluid the Somali, Oromo identity is within the AQ confederacy, look at the breakdown of the Babile section of the Afran Qallo. A large percentage of them are of Hawiye origin, be it Gugundhabe or Karanle Hawiye. This is an open secret. Moreover, the Warra Huume now contain the entire Barsug/Barsub clan. This is a clearly Somali clan that took part in the Futuh Al Habash wars and was listed as Somali Dir in Richard Burton's 19th century book. Today, they are known as Warra Bursuk. If you ever have the opportunity to travel to K5 in the coming years, travel through East Hararghe and visit Fayanbiro, Harar, Babile etc. and do some field research. You will be surprised at how many of those folk have Somali ancestry.

Wherever the original Oromos expanded, they formed a minority elite that gradually assimilated the conquered people they came across hence their great numbers in Ethiopia and the diversity of their features. Entire Kingdoms, many Muslim, were destroyed and assimilated by the expanding Oromos. The Hadiya who now constitute a large section of Arsi are a prime example of this. Gunther Schlee's research into the Oromos is an eye opener regarding the successful assimilationist practices of the Oromo. Read his book, Being and Becoming Oromo, if you get the chance. This is an extract from a rebuttal he made to an academic who was peddling the Oromo Nationalist lies about the identity of the Gabra.

https://www.eth.mpg.de/pubs/wps/pdf/mpi-eth-working-paper-0103.pdf

Oromo Nationalists have been churning out 'academic' propaganda to beautify their conquests and even lay claim to the coast of Northern Somali by using the traditional presence of the Akisho in Jijiga before they were scattered by Wiil Waal's Absame army. Mohammed Hassan's work is a prime example of this, and I am aware that it was indirectly quoted in the Somali E-V32 Anthrogenica thread. Will turn my attention to that thread in due time but I cannot be asked a lot of the time to challenge every Scheit that is posted on forums. Prior to the 16th century, Oromos did not have a presence anywhere in Hararghe but individuals like Mohammed Hassan are trying to rewrite History to suit an Oromo Nationalist narrative. We Somali are not Saints either as exemplified by how the Orma and Borana were displaced by their former Somali Sheegaads, the Waamo Ogaden; Garre etc. Nonetheless, we are more 'prejudiced' than the Oromo regarding the wholesale adoption of non-Somali ethnic groups.

Coming back to the question you asked, in my opinion, any Dir person that claims that Jaarso, for instance, are fully Dir is not being honest. Some of them are certainly of Dir origin as attested to by their sub subclan Abtirsi etc. but not all of them. The confusion arises, in my opinion, due to the fact that most Somalis who became assimilated into the Daga confederation are probably of Dir origin hence the easy switching of identities between Dir and Oromo among the Jaarso, for instance.

You mentioned the Jarso sublclans that are of Somali origin,,now,Mention the Akisho sub clans that have names of Somali origin?... Literally all Akisho sublclans are names of Oromo origin.

 

[Proud Oromian]

It ain't Black and White bro, the exception being Gurgura who are listed as one of the Somali clans that contributed heavily to Ahmed Gurey's campaign and were never fully assimilated into the Oromo clan structure.

The Jaarso and Akisho are not fully Somali nor are they fully Oromo in my opinion. It depends on their individual sub.....subclan within the Afran Qallo confederation. This subject has already been debated by myself and Afran Qallo in the below thread and eslewhere.

Somalis were native to Hararghe until the Oromo expansion after the weakening of Adal Sultanate.

Guji were not originally Oromo, but their neighbors and cousins, their homeland is Girja to the southwest of Mada Walabu. Warra Dayyo were not originally Oromo either, but a related tribe who lived in Liban immediately south of the Mada Walabu. This is kind of a matter of semantics really. By...

www.somalispot.com

The Oromos have a practice of assimilation called Mogasha. When they expanded into the Harar area, some Somalis either joined them voluntarily or were forcibly assimilated, only Allah knows what exactly happened though. What is likely though is that some Somalis abandoned Islam in the process of assimilating into the Gada system as can be corroborated by Afran Qallo. Any AQ individual whose Abtirsi contains distant Muslim/Somali names is not of Oromo origin as the AQ had not fully abandoned their pagan ways until the Egyptian Harar expedition, and Menelik's campaign in Harar which decimated their pagan Gada rituals. The Jaarso that you mention are part of the Daga branch of Afro Qallo and have only recently been associated with a strictly Somali identity. Nonetheless, several of their subclans are of Somali origin, be it Daarood or Dir. You have Warra Absame, Warra Balcad, Warra Cusman and Warra Cumar etc. The first two are of Daarood origin, the latter two are of Dir origin. At some point in History, the ancestors of these clans joined the AQ confederacy. The Akisho also have sub sub subclans that have clearly Somali names. Somalis were not the only ones to be assimilated, other AQ sub sub subclans are of Harla, Agrobba or possibly even Afar origin. The demography of the entire region was upended by the Oromo expansion into the region. One of the AQ Noole subclans closest to Harar are the Mana Abu. They are mainly of Somali Dir origin as can be corroborated again by Afran Qallo. Only one subclan within the Mana Abu is of Daarood origin.`

To illustrate how fluid the Somali, Oromo identity is within the AQ confederacy, look at the breakdown of the Babile section of the Afran Qallo. A large percentage of them are of Hawiye origin, be it Gugundhabe or Karanle Hawiye. This is an open secret. Moreover, the Warra Huume now contain the entire Barsug/Barsub clan. This is a clearly Somali clan that took part in the Futuh Al Habash wars and was listed as Somali Dir in Richard Burton's 19th century book. Today, they are known as Warra Bursuk. If you ever have the opportunity to travel to K5 in the coming years, travel through East Hararghe and visit Fayanbiro, Harar, Babile etc. and do some field research. You will be surprised at how many of those folk have Somali ancestry.

Wherever the original Oromos expanded, they formed a minority elite that gradually assimilated the conquered people they came across hence their great numbers in Ethiopia and the diversity of their features. Entire Kingdoms, many Muslim, were destroyed and assimilated by the expanding Oromos. The Hadiya who now constitute a large section of Arsi are a prime example of this. Gunther Schlee's research into the Oromos is an eye opener regarding the successful assimilationist practices of the Oromo. Read his book, Being and Becoming Oromo, if you get the chance. This is an extract from a rebuttal he made to an academic who was peddling the Oromo Nationalist lies about the identity of the Gabra.

https://www.eth.mpg.de/pubs/wps/pdf/mpi-eth-working-paper-0103.pdf

Oromo Nationalists have been churning out 'academic' propaganda to beautify their conquests and even lay claim to the coast of Northern Somali by using the traditional presence of the Akisho in Jijiga before they were scattered by Wiil Waal's Absame army. Mohammed Hassan's work is a prime example of this, and I am aware that it was indirectly quoted in the Somali E-V32 Anthrogenica thread. Will turn my attention to that thread in due time but I cannot be asked a lot of the time to challenge every Scheit that is posted on forums. Prior to the 16th century, Oromos did not have a presence anywhere in Hararghe but individuals like Mohammed Hassan are trying to rewrite History to suit an Oromo Nationalist narrative. We Somali are not Saints either as exemplified by how the Orma and Borana were displaced by their former Somali Sheegaads, the Waamo Ogaden; Garre etc. Nonetheless, we are more 'prejudiced' than the Oromo regarding the wholesale adoption of non-Somali ethnic groups.

Coming back to the question you asked, in my opinion, any Dir person that claims that Jaarso, for instance, are fully Dir is not being honest. Some of them are certainly of Dir origin as attested to by their sub subclan Abtirsi etc. but not all of them. The confusion arises, in my opinion, due to the fact that most Somalis who became assimilated into the Daga confederation are probably of Dir origin hence the easy switching of identities between Dir and Oromo among the Jaarso, for instance.

And you know by this logic all Somali clans that have 'waaq' sufix are Oromo...
So half of Hawiye is oromo,,!
Or what your point!!!

 

[Proud Oromian]

It ain't Black and White bro, the exception being Gurgura who are listed as one of the Somali clans that contributed heavily to Ahmed Gurey's campaign and were never fully assimilated into the Oromo clan structure.

The Jaarso and Akisho are not fully Somali nor are they fully Oromo in my opinion. It depends on their individual sub.....subclan within the Afran Qallo confederation. This subject has already been debated by myself and Afran Qallo in the below thread and eslewhere.

Somalis were native to Hararghe until the Oromo expansion after the weakening of Adal Sultanate.

Guji were not originally Oromo, but their neighbors and cousins, their homeland is Girja to the southwest of Mada Walabu. Warra Dayyo were not originally Oromo either, but a related tribe who lived in Liban immediately south of the Mada Walabu. This is kind of a matter of semantics really. By...

www.somalispot.com

The Oromos have a practice of assimilation called Mogasha. When they expanded into the Harar area, some Somalis either joined them voluntarily or were forcibly assimilated, only Allah knows what exactly happened though. What is likely though is that some Somalis abandoned Islam in the process of assimilating into the Gada system as can be corroborated by Afran Qallo. Any AQ individual whose Abtirsi contains distant Muslim/Somali names is not of Oromo origin as the AQ had not fully abandoned their pagan ways until the Egyptian Harar expedition, and Menelik's campaign in Harar which decimated their pagan Gada rituals. The Jaarso that you mention are part of the Daga branch of Afro Qallo and have only recently been associated with a strictly Somali identity. Nonetheless, several of their subclans are of Somali origin, be it Daarood or Dir. You have Warra Absame, Warra Balcad, Warra Cusman and Warra Cumar etc. The first two are of Daarood origin, the latter two are of Dir origin. At some point in History, the ancestors of these clans joined the AQ confederacy. The Akisho also have sub sub subclans that have clearly Somali names. Somalis were not the only ones to be assimilated, other AQ sub sub subclans are of Harla, Agrobba or possibly even Afar origin. The demography of the entire region was upended by the Oromo expansion into the region. One of the AQ Noole subclans closest to Harar are the Mana Abu. They are mainly of Somali Dir origin as can be corroborated again by Afran Qallo. Only one subclan within the Mana Abu is of Daarood origin.`

To illustrate how fluid the Somali, Oromo identity is within the AQ confederacy, look at the breakdown of the Babile section of the Afran Qallo. A large percentage of them are of Hawiye origin, be it Gugundhabe or Karanle Hawiye. This is an open secret. Moreover, the Warra Huume now contain the entire Barsug/Barsub clan. This is a clearly Somali clan that took part in the Futuh Al Habash wars and was listed as Somali Dir in Richard Burton's 19th century book. Today, they are known as Warra Bursuk. If you ever have the opportunity to travel to K5 in the coming years, travel through East Hararghe and visit Fayanbiro, Harar, Babile etc. and do some field research. You will be surprised at how many of those folk have Somali ancestry.

Wherever the original Oromos expanded, they formed a minority elite that gradually assimilated the conquered people they came across hence their great numbers in Ethiopia and the diversity of their features. Entire Kingdoms, many Muslim, were destroyed and assimilated by the expanding Oromos. The Hadiya who now constitute a large section of Arsi are a prime example of this. Gunther Schlee's research into the Oromos is an eye opener regarding the successful assimilationist practices of the Oromo. Read his book, Being and Becoming Oromo, if you get the chance. This is an extract from a rebuttal he made to an academic who was peddling the Oromo Nationalist lies about the identity of the Gabra.

https://www.eth.mpg.de/pubs/wps/pdf/mpi-eth-working-paper-0103.pdf

Oromo Nationalists have been churning out 'academic' propaganda to beautify their conquests and even lay claim to the coast of Northern Somali by using the traditional presence of the Akisho in Jijiga before they were scattered by Wiil Waal's Absame army. Mohammed Hassan's work is a prime example of this, and I am aware that it was indirectly quoted in the Somali E-V32 Anthrogenica thread. Will turn my attention to that thread in due time but I cannot be asked a lot of the time to challenge every Scheit that is posted on forums. Prior to the 16th century, Oromos did not have a presence anywhere in Hararghe but individuals like Mohammed Hassan are trying to rewrite History to suit an Oromo Nationalist narrative. We Somali are not Saints either as exemplified by how the Orma and Borana were displaced by their former Somali Sheegaads, the Waamo Ogaden; Garre etc. Nonetheless, we are more 'prejudiced' than the Oromo regarding the wholesale adoption of non-Somali ethnic groups.

Coming back to the question you asked, in my opinion, any Dir person that claims that Jaarso, for instance, are fully Dir is not being honest. Some of them are certainly of Dir origin as attested to by their sub subclan Abtirsi etc. but not all of them. The confusion arises, in my opinion, due to the fact that most Somalis who became assimilated into the Daga confederation are probably of Dir origin hence the easy switching of identities between Dir and Oromo among the Jaarso, for instance.

Akisho have zero Somali names Sublclans ,Why are you lying.

 

[anonimo]

You mentioned the Jarso sublclans that are of Somali origin,,now,Mention the Akisho sub clans that have names of Somali origin?... Literally all Akisho sublclans are names of Oromo origin.

Dude, there is no difference, is Jarso a Somali name? No, but the sub subclans have Somali names.

You have comprehension issues, read my post again. Subclans below the main Akisho subs have Somali names like Reer Warfa, Reer Xildid etc. When were these ever Oromo names?

And you know by this logic all Somali clans that have 'waaq' sufix are Oromo...
So half of Hawiye is oromo,,!
Or what your point!!!

Waaq is common to other Cushitic speaking people and not exclusively Oromo. It was the pre-Islamic deity of many Somalis. Tell me how many Oromo clans have Waaq in their name. Jidwaaq, for example, means path of God. What has Waaq got to do with the fact that Babile subclans are clearly Hawiye? Find me a Gugundhabe or Karanle in any other Oromo confederacy bar the Afran Qallo. Also, explain to me how the Warra Huume section of Daga suddenly has the Barsug listed as Warra Bursuk when everyone knows they are Somali, ancestrally speaking? Did the pagan Oromos possess names such as Omar, Usman, Ali etc when they descended upon Harar?

The fact remains that the Afran Qallo is a confederacy that came into existence only after the Oromo settled in Hararghe and assimilated some of the native Somalis etc. Do you think the natives of region suddenly ceased to exist? For one reason or the other, they language switched and now falsely identify with an Oromo identity brought to this region by pagans who took advantage of the religious wars that handicapped both Christians and Muslims. Prior to that, I dare you to find any evidence of the existence of an Afran Qallo Oromo clan identity.

For an ethnic group that is a mish mash of almost every ethnicity that it neighbours, how can one be offended if they are called out for what they are? Is it any wonder that an Afran Qallo looks nothing like the bug eyed mountainous Oromos?

 

[Proud Oromian]

Dude, there is no difference, is Jarso a Somali name? No, but the sub subclans have Somali names.

You have comprehension issues, read my post again. Subclans below the main Akisho subs have Somali names like Reer Warfa, Reer Xildid etc. When were these ever Oromo names?



Waaq is common to other Cushitic speaking people and not exclusively Oromo. It was the pre-Islamic deity of many Somalis. Tell me how many Oromo clans have Waaq in their name. Jidwaaq, for example, means path of God. What has Waaq got to do with the fact that Babile subclans are clearly Hawiye? Find me a Gugundhabe or Karanle in any other Oromo confederacy bar the Afran Qallo. Also, explain to me how the Warra Huume section of Daga suddenly has the Barsug listed as Warra Bursuk when everyone knows they are Somali, ancestrally speaking? Did the pagan Oromos possess names such as Omar, Usman, Ali etc when they descended upon Harar?

The fact remains that the Afran Qallo is a confederacy that came into existence only after the Oromo settled in Hararghe and assimilated some of the native Somalis etc. Do you think the natives of region suddenly ceased to exist? For one reason or the other, they language switched and now falsely identify with an Oromo identity brought to this region by pagans who took advantage of the religious wars that handicapped both Christians and Muslims. Prior to that, I dare you to find any evidence of the existence of an Afran Qallo Oromo clan identity.

For an ethnic group that is a mish mash of almost every ethnicity that it neighbours, how can one be offended if they are called out for what they are? Is it any wonder that an Afran Qallo looks nothing like the bug eyed mountainous Oromos?

What tf do you mean by "When Oromos Settled in Hararghe" like we came?.....We were there before you,you came tried to mess with us,and we f***kfdyou up ,,colonised and Assimilated you.

Mess with any Oromo,but not the son's Of Qallo.

 

[anonimo]

What tf do you mean by "When Oromos Settled in Hararghe" like we came?

.....We were there before you,you came tried to mess with us,and we f***kfdyou up ,,colonised and Assimilated you.

Mess with any Oromo,but not the son's Of Qallo.

Every Dog has his Day, but even during your heyday when the Muslims and Christians of the Horn had weakened each other during the 16th century, we held you in check. There is a reason why you were never able to progress beyond the highlands of Harar and the Liban plains of Southern Ethiopia.

Trust me, you Shafted each other more than you ever Shafted us. During your reign of terror, you turned on each other, enslaving one another and selling your own people to Gurage traders and Somali middlemen etc. You were one of the biggest source of slaves in the Horn of Africa. The amount of Somalis that joined Oromo confederacies pales in comparison to the number of Oromos that were exported from Somali and Afar ports. We Somalis are savage to one another during clan wars but we always drew the line at the mass export of our women and children to foreign lands so they me be made concubines and eunuchs.

Furthermore, the pitiful state of the Oromos after the Habasha became dominant in the 19th century is also partially down to Oromos siding with Habasha to subjugate their fellow Oromo. The martial Oromos of old were not peasant serfs, but warrior nomads. With the exception of the Karrayu and Borana, the rest of you were reduced to Qoti serfs who had lost the independence commonly associated with the martial Oromo nomads of yesteryear.

 

[Proud Oromian]

Dude, there is no difference, is Jarso a Somali name? No, but the sub subclans have Somali names.

You have comprehension issues, read my post again. Subclans below the main Akisho subs have Somali names like Reer Warfa, Reer Xildid etc. When were these ever Oromo names?



Waaq is common to other Cushitic speaking people and not exclusively Oromo. It was the pre-Islamic deity of many Somalis. Tell me how many Oromo clans have Waaq in their name. Jidwaaq, for example, means path of God. What has Waaq got to do with the fact that Babile subclans are clearly Hawiye? Find me a Gugundhabe or Karanle in any other Oromo confederacy bar the Afran Qallo. Also, explain to me how the Warra Huume section of Daga suddenly has the Barsug listed as Warra Bursuk when everyone knows they are Somali, ancestrally speaking? Did the pagan Oromos possess names such as Omar, Usman, Ali etc when they descended upon Harar?

The fact remains that the Afran Qallo is a confederacy that came into existence only after the Oromo settled in Hararghe and assimilated some of the native Somalis etc. Do you think the natives of region suddenly ceased to exist? For one reason or the other, they language switched and now falsely identify with an Oromo identity brought to this region by pagans who took advantage of the religious wars that handicapped both Christians and Muslims. Prior to that, I dare you to find any evidence of the existence of an Afran Qallo Oromo clan identity.

For an ethnic group that is a mish mash of almost every ethnicity that it neighbours, how can one be offended if they are called out for what they are? Is it any wonder that an Afran Qallo looks nothing like the bug eyed mountainous Oromos?

Most Afran Qallos Oromos believe this "Dir Clan" is a made up thing it never existed ,,It's just collections of Qabiils from Oromos and other Somalis clans..

So as a dir you either Bareentu Oromo or Other major Somalis Clans Hawiye,Daarod or Isaaq.

Every Dog has his Day, but even during your heyday when the Muslims and Christians of the Horn had weakened each other during the 16th century, we held you in check. There is a reason why you were never able to progress beyond the highlands of Harar and the Liban plains of Southern Ethiopia.

Trust me, you Shafted each other more than you ever Shafted us. During your reign of terror, you turned on each other, enslaving one another and selling your own people to Gurage traders and Somali middlemen etc. You were one of the biggest source of slaves in the Horn of Africa. The amount of Somalis that joined Oromo confederacies pales in comparison to the number of Oromos that were exported from Somali and Afar ports. We Somalis are savage to one another during clan wars but we always drew the line at the mass export of our women and children to foreign lands so they me be made concubines and eunuchs.

Furthermore, the pitiful state of the Oromos after the Habasha became dominant in the 19th century is also partially down to Oromos siding with Habasha to subjugate their fellow Oromo. The martial Oromos of old were not peasant serfs, but warrior nomads. With the exception of the Karrayu and Borana, the rest of you were reduced to Qoti serfs who had lost the independence commonly associated with the martial Oromo nomads of yesteryear.

That is history ,,,,Lets look at the current situation...What happened to brave and intelligent Somalis huh?..Why is your country a failed state ,,Nearly all Somali built countries /region are one of the poorest...from Kenya ,to Djibouti to Somali region,they are poorest region compared to the rest of the country the country they live in /regions .

 

[anonimo]

Most Afran Qallos Oromos believe this "Dir Clan" is a made up thing it never existed ,,It's just collections of Qabiils from Oromos and other Somalis clans..

So as a dir you either Bareentu Oromo or Other major Somalis Clans Hawiye,Daarod or Isaaq.
That is history ,,,,Lets look at the current situation...What happened to brave and intelligent Somalis huh?..Why is your country a failed state ,,Nearly all Somali built countries /region are one of the poorest...from Kenya ,to Djibouti to Somali region,they are poorest region compared to the rest of the country the country they live in /regions .

Don't worry about my Somali identity, I would be insulting my intellect if I dignified your assertion with a reasoned response considering how my clan is considered the definition of Somali.

As for your statement about the situation of Somalis. I agree, to an extent, that it is not a bed of roses. You don't see me boasting about us being a First World nation etc. I ain't a nationalist, I am a realist, and I only highlighted your fuc.ked up History to demonstrate how your hollow claims to a glorious legacy and homogeneous identity does not stand up to historical scrutiny.

Nonetheless, as fucked up as our situation might be, tell me why does your Hodge podge ethnic group have a noticeable presence in our urban cities of the North if we are so damned misery stricken?

An 'Oromo' cannot throw stones at the Somali House when you are a source of cheap labour in our lands. I shall refrain from rubbing further salt to the wound as not every so called 'Oromo' is actually an Oromo.

Now run along and stick a phallus on your forehead whilst reminiscing about the Good Ol Days when you would raid unsuspecting fellow 'Oromos' for children to sell into slavery.

 

[Proud Oromian]

Don't worry about my Somali identity, I would be insulting my intellect if I dignified your assertion with a reasoned response considering how my clan is considered the definition of Somali.

As for your statement about the situation of Somalis. I agree, to an extent, that it is not a bed of roses. You don't see me boasting about us being a First World nation etc. I ain't a nationalist, I am a realist, and I only highlighted your fuc.ked up History to demonstrate how your hollow claims to a glorious legacy and homogeneous identity does not stand up to historical scrutiny.

Nonetheless, as fucked up as our situation might be, tell me why does your Hodge podge ethnic group have a noticeable presence in our urban cities of the North if we are so damned misery stricken?

An 'Oromo' cannot throw stones at the Somali House when you are a source of cheap labour in our lands. I shall refrain from rubbing further salt to the wound as not every so called 'Oromo' is actually an Oromo.

Now run along and stick a phallus on your forehead whilst reminiscing about the Good Ol Days when you would raid unsuspecting fellow 'Oromos' for children to sell into slavery.

Are

Don't worry about my Somali identity, I would be insulting my intellect if I dignified your assertion with a reasoned response considering how my clan is considered the definition of Somali.

As for your statement about the situation of Somalis. I agree, to an extent, that it is not a bed of roses. You don't see me boasting about us being a First World nation etc. I ain't a nationalist, I am a realist, and I only highlighted your fuc.ked up History to demonstrate how your hollow claims to a glorious legacy and homogeneous identity does not stand up to historical scrutiny.

Nonetheless, as fucked up as our situation might be, tell me why does your Hodge podge ethnic group have a noticeable presence in our urban cities of the North if we are so damned misery stricken?

An 'Oromo' cannot throw stones at the Somali House when you are a source of cheap labour in our lands. I shall refrain from rubbing further salt to the wound as not every so called 'Oromo' is actually an Oromo.

Now run along and stick a phallus on your forehead whilst reminiscing about the Good Ol Days when you would raid unsuspecting fellow 'Oromos' for children to sell into slavery.

Somalia is one of the poorest countries in the Africa.

Djibouti ,a one city country (It literally looks like a university hostel after 40 years of independence.

North eastern Kenya ,where somalis live predominantly,is the poorest in the country (You should have seen the rest of Kenya,you would cry)

Somali region (DDS),Is the poorest and most marginalised region(before Abdi Iley sucked TPLF ' cock)to help you out.)

Somalis have the largest refugees in Africa, with over with over half a million living in Kenya refugee camps.
What happened to your baravery and intelligence huh,.

Individual brilliance is real tho,Every community has tycoons and and really rich people,We Oromos also have .There are Somalis individuals ,who can literally buy Africa,lije that Dhahabshiil guy,but that doesn't change anything for Somalis as a nation.,they are one of the poorest!

So stop acting like the Jews and Russians of Africa and let's help our Cushitic people.

 

[anonimo]

Are
Somalia is one of the poorest countries in the Africa.

Djibouti ,a one city country (It literally looks like a university hostel after 40 years of independence.

North eastern Kenya ,where somalis live predominantly,is the poorest in the country (You should have seen the rest of Kenya,you would cry)

Somali region (DDS),Is the poorest and most marginalised region(before Abdi Iley sucked TPLF ' cock)to help you out.)

Somalis have the largest refugees in Africa, with over with over half a million living in Kenya refugee camps.
What happened to your baravery and intelligence huh,.

So stop acting like the Jews and Russians of Africa and let's help our Cushitic people.

You got me wrong man, no nation is without shame or sin. All I did was react to your incendiary boastful claims by bringing up tragic historical events. For that, I apologise.

Secondly, my discussion around the ancestry of Afran Qallo Oromos was not necessarily a dig at Oromos. Afran Qallos who are aware of having Somali ancestry are not suddenly going to fly a Somali flag and abandon, in some cases, a centuries old confederacy just because it is made known that they are an assimilated group in origin. The Truth can help build bridges between Somalis and Oromos in Eastern Hararghe in my opinion.

Lastly, I don't subscribe to identify labels such as 'Cushite' etc. I stop at Somali!