Migration of T-M184

There's absolutely no European Jew, Ashkenazi which make up the majority, so called Jews R1A today, nor the saphardic who can trace their lineage to levites, hell even the mizrahis can't. they're all mix bag of E, J, R.

Levi or lewi was a great grandfather of musa & Haroon. the so called Cohens or priestly family were supposed to be from Haroon descendants that's a fact, but some how the total number of Levites during the Exodus were about 22,000 of them that's the men only.

how is that possible! even if levite himself had 100 wives his descendants wouldn't have been that much. some of these guys lived more than 100 years old still wouldn't make up that much. There's something off about the Levites Tally in NUMBERs 3 verse 39. Musa father was Imran, his grandfather was kohath and his great grand father was Levi/Lewi how did these families become a clan of 22,000? rhetorical question!.


{ which by the way ahl bayt has nothing to do with Ali nor the "family" of the prophet. the Quran mentions Ahl bayt in three occasions & Ali was never refered to. first relates to Ibrahim 11:73, secondly relates to Musa 28:12 and lastly relates to Muhammad 33:33. The Muhammad verse was about the women of his household being told to cover themselves, pray salat & pay zakat, so that Allah would purify them & not act as of the old days of ignorance.

Every one claiming to be ahl bayt today is nothing but a lier or a shegato. The prophet has no descendants nor can Ali descendants be of his even if they had the same grand father & belong to the same tribe.}


without actually testing these individuals either Muhammad, Ali, Ibrahim, Isxaaq, ya3qub, isha3iil. Everyone is correct & wrong at the same time.

All of it started from the first fitna and for the Israelites during the Assyrian and Babylonian exile.

Maybe they're under J-p58, E1B1B, R1B, E1B1A, G, H. My only argument against those haplogroups is the fact that pharaohs of Egypt are found to belong to those haplogroups.

Prophet Yusuf was never pharaoh or considered to be one, but worked for them & was given a high status within the foreigners who came to rule lower Egypt from avaris as their Capital.


There's zero evidence to suggest Ibrahim &
his descendants belong to J-P58. There's zero evidence to suggest Ibrahim came from southern Iraq archeologically or any DNA findings that goes back to Ibrahim himself.

Semitic belong to multiple haplogroups there's only linguistic argument for who is a semite or semitic dispersal. If it's from shem then there no way of knowing who, unless shem is found & tested.

The idea of Jewishness has to do with the kingdom of Judea, so long as someone was a "citizen" in the kingdom of Judea they were considered "Jewish". Even Benjamins descendants lived with the yehudi who became the kings & controlled the southern kingdom aka Judea after the united kingdom of Israel was split during sulaymans death till the Babylonian exile. The Benjaminate were considered "Jews". The other ten lived in the north & called Israel who were said to be lost which is highly improbable, hundreds of thousands of humans don't just get lost without a trice, nor were they massacred in wars.

My point is the Cohen's Can't be a model of sort measuring stick whom Haroon decedent's were or are, neither can't the Jordanian monarchs. The only evidence Ali or Muhammad is believe to be under J-L859 is because of them no other evidence.

Mind y'all Ali is supposed to be J-FGC10500 1400ybp. What are the chance that if & when Ali & Muhammad are tested they would score that specific SNP & ypb!?! What evidence are there to suggest Ibrahims SNP & Isxaq & isma3iil had different SNP from their fathers let alone fihr aka Quarish & Ali!?! Without testing them. Scientific research should include every aspect of Hypotheses theoretical, hypothetical explanations of observations and measurements of the subject, Predictions, inductive and deductive reasoning from the hypothesis or theory, Experiments, tests of all of the above.


The only reason most people lean on which in itself not evidence the L859 being Quarish is, because of the Jordanian sample and their claim to being descendants of Hassan ibn Ali Abu talib. was Hassan tested rhetorical question!.


What if I tell you that they were never a sheriff of mecca. That the "mecca" south of Madina was not actually the mecca Quarish tribes resided, nor Muhammad grew up in, neither was it the mecca aka Kaaba build by Ibrahim with isham3iil. For it doesn't make sense hagar and little sma3iil to travel 650+ miles on foot with a little bag of water to a waste land neither has any prophet ever been to the modern day mecca or anywhere south of Madina since before Muhammad. Neither can modern day "mecca" be considered mother of all cities, it was not on a major trading route nor ancients ever mentioned till the 7th century CE.


That mecca was build by Abdullah ibn zubair when he was a contender for the caliphate against Marwan ibn Muawiyah and he ran from hajjaj ibn Yusuf the general of marwans army and he stole the black rock. the real mecca and Kaaba was never rebuilt after it was destroyed by wars/battle between hajjaj ibn Yusuf and Abdullah ibn yusuf, earthquake and floodings and the ancient building still standing around it.


Not only that Ibrahim never been to southern Iraq but came from north of Haran in modern day southern eastern turkey.


If that's the case then there's little to zero evidence L859 could be Quarish and the Jordanian would be the biggest shegato in human history along with the so called modern day Cohen's and jews.


I understand most of you will not believe let alone acknowledge the above, cause you've all been brainwashed to believe that modern day mecca is where Muhammad and Quarish resided, but mind y'all the Saudis have been digging all around "mecca" to this very day! have found zero graves sites or human remains. They found nothing but sand. even the area where the battle badr took place has no graves it's just an empty land. It was customery to bury the fallen soldiers where they died.


The only reasonable and logical direction to take at this point is to test these known graves sites of the prophets, otherwise we'll never know and argue from a moot point.
 
They can’t be because R1a is non existent among Arabians. Only the once with Indian or Persian roots have it.

This Arab klmdg over at anthrogenica is an expert when it comes to tribes and their lineages. He appears on the last few pages of this thread.

From the beginning till the end most people lean on the L859 being Quraish


I think J-Y6074/J-FGC8712 and J-YSC0000234 and T-Y16897 are all possible to be the Abraham lineage, all have jews and arabs, the J-Y6074 have tribes claiming to be from quraysh and so do the T-Y16897. I think J-Y6074 have a stronger claim at the moment due to a more correct TMRCA, but TMRCA change a lot so we'll see.

There could be other possible haplogroups like J2, and maybe to a lesser extent G and R.

T1, J1 and E seems to be the strongest. I saw a vid of someone saying possible E sub clades Ibrahim AS could have belonged to.


@Step a side There is 45 Jews under T-Y16897 on the FTDNA T project, I never knew how large it was I was just looking at those Yfull ones. I’ve maybe read it’s a major Ashkenazi lineage, and when I searched up T-Y16897 or it’s sub clades then a site saying this lineage is part of the Ashkenazi branch or something.

Here’s the site: https://jewishdna.net/T.html

I wonder if sephardic jews and other type of jews will or have test/tested positive for it. Some of the jews under Y-16897 have "Ephriam" and "Levie", are they referring to the tribes of Levi and Ephraim? Ephraim tribe along with Manasseh is from Yusuf AS from what I've read, not sure if they taking it from the bible. I want too see what islam says about Yusuf AS kids, cuz the bible one could be fake.
 
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I think J-Y6074/J-FGC8712 and J-YSC0000234 and T-Y16897 are all possible to be the Abraham lineage, all have jews and arabs, the J-Y6074 have tribes claiming to be from quraysh and so do the T-Y16897. I think J-Y6074 have a stronger claim at the moment due to a more correct TMRCA, but TMRCA change a lot so we'll see.


@Step a side There is 45 Jews under T-Y16897 on the FTDNA T project, I never knew how large it was I was just looking at those Yfull ones. I’ve maybe read it’s a major Ashkenazi lineage, and when I searched up T-Y16897 or it’s sub clades then a site saying this lineage is part of the Ashkenazi branch or something.

Here’s the site: https://jewishdna.net/T.html

I wonder if sephardic jews and other type of jews will or have test/tested positive for it. Some of the jews under Y-16897 have "Ephriam" and "Levie", are they referring to the tribes of Levi and Ephraim? Ephraim tribe along with Manasseh is from Yusuf AS from what I've read, not sure if they taking it from the bible. I want too see what islam says about Yusuf AS kids, cuz the bible one could be fake.
There are the 12 sons of Nabi Jacquub (as)

1687035128464.png


Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali,Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin


These are the 3 major Jewish Y DNA T lineages

 
There are the 12 sons of Nabi Jacquub (as)

View attachment 279645

Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali,Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin


These are the 3 major Jewish Y DNA T lineages

Does Islam agree with those names/children, like do they have similar/same names?

7 out of the 45 Jews I told you about have unknown origin or it’s a empty place on FTDNA T project, I’m guessing those 7 unknown origins or empty place are Jews because they are grouped together with them.

88DBE0B3-F1F8-48A6-A641-EC3394967C97.jpeg


I could be wrong and they could be just randomly placed, or does it mean the people are grouped together. It says on FTDNA ”Members' STR results and subgroups”.
 
Does Islam agree with those names/children, like do they have similar/same names?

7 out of the 45 Jews I told you about have unknown origin or it’s a empty place on FTDNA T project, I’m guessing those 7 unknown origins or empty place are Jews because they are grouped together with them.

View attachment 279649

I could be wrong and they could be just randomly placed, or does it mean the people are grouped together. It says on FTDNA ”Members' STR results and subgroups”.
Yeh their origin is “unknown” because they haven’t put it in yet. They most likely Jews because they match the other ones.

Islam agrees with those 12 sons.
 

Shimbiris

بىَر غىَل إيؤ عآنؤ لؤ
VIP
iraq has major tribes like anizah amd shammar and shaiban. also jordan has anizah shammar huwaitat atiya tribes same as arabia.

Southern Iraq and Jordan are basically just historical extensions of Arabia. The Sauds would have even taken these regions if it wasn't for the fact that they didn't wanna piss off factions like the British.
 
@Griezmann7711
Very interesting thread brother. It seems like T took similar migration routes into the Horn as J1 did but perhaps it entered the Horn much earlier. It could be from descendants of Neo-Assyrian or Neo-Babylonian traders which would explain why many Iraqi & Syrian Christians have it <Assyrians, Chaldeans, Syriacs> who in turn tend to be self isolated groups and do not marry out, however I think some of them have different subclades of T. More people testing will give us the full picture, Inshallah.

There are public FamilyTreeDNA spreadsheets for both arab tribes and assyrians if you are interested.

arab tribes: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/arab tribes/default.aspx?section=yresults
assyrians: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/assyrianheritagednaproject/default.aspx?section=yresults
 
@Griezmann7711
Very interesting thread brother. It seems like T took similar migration routes into the Horn as J1 did but perhaps it entered the Horn much earlier. It could be from descendants of Neo-Assyrian or Neo-Babylonian traders which would explain why many Iraqi & Syrian Christians have it <Assyrians, Chaldeans, Syriacs> who in turn tend to be self isolated groups and do not marry out, however I think some of them have different subclades of T. More people testing will give us the full picture, Inshallah.

There are public FamilyTreeDNA spreadsheets for both arab tribes and assyrians if you are interested.

arab tribes: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/arab tribes/default.aspx?section=yresults
assyrians: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/assyrianheritagednaproject/default.aspx?section=yresults
I didn’t know about the Assyrian FTDNA spreadsheets, I knew that Arab spreadsheet/spreadsheets existed tho. Thank you bro.
 

NidarNidar

Punisher
I just used clade finder and I got peculiar result, it showing T-Y269895, will be taking the big Y hopefully after I come back from holidays.
 

Libaax-Joore

Beesha haplogroup e-by8081
VIP
Yeh their origin is “unknown” because they haven’t put it in yet. They most likely Jews because they match the other ones.

Islam agrees with those 12 sons.

Approximately 35% to 43% of Jewish men are in the paternal line known as haplogroup J[a] and its sub-haplogroups. This haplogroup is particularly present in the Middle East and Southern Europe.[23] 15% to 30% are in haplogroup E1b1b, (or E-M35) and its sub-haplogroups which is common in the Middle East, North Africa, Southern Europe also we find the Mediterranean T1a1 varying percentages depending on the Jewish group studied but with upward of 15 to 3% with the highest frequency within Jewish communities native to the Fertile Crescent and East Africa.
 
Any genetics people left here?

There might be more results to be analysed I am curious to see how close or far they are from this sub-clade currently limited to Somalis.

T seems to be stronger in Arabia than people assumed as well some very interesting results popping up both for Adnani clans (Quraysh) and others
 
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NidarNidar

Punisher
Any genetics people left here?

There might be more results to be analysed I am curious to see how close or far they are from this sub-clade currently limited to Somalis.

T seems to be stronger in Arabia than people assumed as well some very interesting results popping up.
I'm T waiting on my big y result.

1711401154168.png
 

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