Migration of T-M184

[Griezmann7711]

According to FamilyTreeDNA haplogroup T-M184 migrated from around Southeast Turkey/northwest Iran areas north of Iraq. From there it spread onwards and the route it took to the horn of Africa is Mesopotamia-Arabian peninsula-Horn of Africa route, not the Egyptian route which some people theorise about.

The house of Khalifa which is the royal family of Bahrain is also haplogroup T, so is Kuwait since the royal family called the house of sabah descend from the same ancestor/ancestors as house of khalifa, their common ancestor is banu Utbah which descend from the Anziah tribe which in turn descend from Ismail AS because they are Adnani northern Arab tribes.

Most Somali haplogroup T breakdown is:

TM184>
L490>M70>Z19859>L454>L208>Y16897>BY56427>BY181195>BY182320>BY181210

There is a Rahanweyn however that got T-Y223124

Sheikh Isaaqs grandfather Muhammad was from Samarra, an ancient city in Iraq that's situated on the east bank of the river Tigris.


Now what's the coincidence our haplogroup and our ancestor was from around the same area?

@Step a side @kaahin13 @Netflix @Libaax-Joore @The alchemist @Reformed J @Garaad Hirabu @Weerar

Tell me if my interpretation of the FamilyTreeDNA migration is correct?

 

[Step a side]

According to FamilyTreeDNA haplogroup T-M184 migrated from around Southeast Turkey/northwest Iran areas north of Iraq. From there it spread onwards and the route it took to the horn of Africa is Mesopotamia-Arabian peninsula-Horn of Africa route, not the Egyptian route which some people theorise about.


View attachment 275103View attachment 275109

The house of Khalifa which is the royal family of Bahrain is also haplogroup T, so is Kuwait since the royal family called the house of sabah descend from the same ancestor/ancestors as house of khalifa, their common ancestor is banu Utbah which descend from the Anziah tribe which in turn descend from Ismail AS because they are Adnani northern Arab tribes.


View attachment 275110

Most Somali haplogroup T breakdown is:

TM184>
L490>M70>Z19859>L454>L208>Y16897>BY56427>BY181195>BY182320>BY181210

There is a Rahanweyn however that got T-Y223124

Sheikh Isaaqs grandfather Muhammad was from Samarra, an ancient city in Iraq that's situated on the east bank of the river Tigris.


Now what's the coincidence our haplogroup and our ancestor was from around the same area?

View attachment 275191
@Step a side @kaahin13 @Netflix @Libaax-Joore @The alchemist @Reformed J @Garaad Hirabu @Weerar

Tell me if my interpretation of the FamilyTreeDNA migration is correct?

nice theory but there are some flaws to it. 1st of all, Adnan and Ismaeel as well as most Qathan tribes are J1/P58. Adnan specifically would be within FGC11-FGC12.

T entered Africa via Sinai and via Arabia. There are some old T lineages in North Africa that clearly came via the Sinai.

 

[Bowda-dheer]

nice theory but there are some flaws to it. 1st of all, Adnan and Ismaeel as well as most Qathan tribes are J1/P58. Adnan specifically would be within FGC11-FGC12.

T entered Africa via Sinai and via Arabia. There are some old T lineages in North Africa that clearly came via the Sinai.

right and BY181210 is 2600-1600 years old at that time Arabs didn’t even conquer Iraq they conquered Iraq after the prophet pbuh which has been only 1400+years. Sheikh Mohammed myth busted. You’re also right on some of the T being in North Africa and Sudan.

 

[mahamdov]

wa wuz Arabs kangz

 

[Griezmann7711]

nice theory but there are some flaws to it. 1st of all, Adnan and Ismaeel as well as most Qathan tribes are J1/P58. Adnan specifically would be within FGC11-FGC12.

T entered Africa via Sinai and via Arabia. There are some old T lineages in North Africa that clearly came via the Sinai.

First, where's the evidence most adnanis and qahtanis are J, I know most or many Arabs in the Arabian peninsula are J but some people say not all Arabs are from adnanis and qahtanis. Secondly, just because majority or many is doesn't mean it's guaranteed an ancestor over 2000 years ago will be that haplogroup.

right and BY181210 is 2600-1600 years old at that time Arabs didn’t even conquer Iraq they conquered Iraq after the prophet pbuh which has been only 1400+years. Sheikh Mohammed myth busted. You’re also right on some of the T being in North Africa and Sudan.

You're clearly new to this DNA thing if you don't know that TMRCA changes as more people upload and they improve the method. The Isaaq/Dir sub clade use to be 2000-2200 years old and now it went to 1600 years old, as more people and upload the picture will become much clearer.

FamilyTreeDNA always says this about their sub clade estimations.

It's kinda ironic since you told me to stop running my mouth on something I have no idea about referring to me talking about the DNA thing, but you don't even know the most basic thing about the Ytree lol. Follow your own advice.

 

[Step a side]

First, where's the evidence most adnanis and qahtanis are J, I know most or many Arabs in the Arabian peninsula are J but some people say not all Arabs are from adnanis and qahtanis. Secondly, just because majority or many is doesn't mean it's guaranteed an ancestor over 2000 years ago will be that haplogroup.

You're clearly new to this DNA thing if you don't know that TMRCA changes as more people upload and they improve the method. The Isaaq/Dir sub clade use to be 2000-2200 years old and now it went to 1600 years old, as more people and upload the picture will become much clearer.

FamilyTreeDNA always says this about their sub clade estimations.

View attachment 275200
It's kinda ironic since you told me to stop running my mouth on something I have no idea about referring to me talking about the DNA thing, but you don't even know the most basic thing about the Ytree lol. Follow your own advice.

Bro Arabs are easily some of the most oversampels ethnic groups on Yfull and FTDNA. They know each other the way we know each oher. J1 P58 without a doubt is the king pin in Arabia. T is like 5-7% percent. It’s a minority vastly outnumbered by J1 and even E1b1b.

Not all tribes are Adnan and Qathan like you said which I agree but these two groups are the two largest and no doubt most of them get P58 which makes up 70% of Arabs tested. Branches within FGC12 seems to correlate with Adnan. Z640 with Al Azd etc. It matches their oral history really well and they will tell you themselves.

 

[Aic]

The Rahanweyn one is totally different, and it matches up with their theories.

 

[Griezmann7711]

Bro Arabs are easily some of the most oversampels ethnic groups on Yfull and FTDNA. They know each other the way we know each oher. J1 P58 without a doubt is the king pin in Arabia. T is like 5-7% percent. It’s a minority vastly outnumbered by J1 and even E1b1b.

Not all tribes are Adnan and Qathan like you said which I agree but these two groups are the two largest and no doubt most of them get P58 which makes up 70% of Arabs tested. Branches within FGC12 seems to correlate with Adnan. Z640 with Al Azd etc. It matches their oral history really well and they will tell you themselves.

It's no doubt that J is the biggest haplogroup in the Arabian peninsula, where did you get the T % frequency, it might be that high overall but in some places it's 25-70%+.

Banu Khalid tribe for example, a well known quraysh tribe is 43% haplogroup T, 43 out of 99 is like 43.43%.

One UAE emirate has even higher haplogroup T frequency as high as 59.76% which is almost 60%.

The phylogenetic tree of T-M184 shows various Arab-Jewish tribes and one of them being being banu tamim which is one of the largest adnani tribes and one of the largest Arab tribes.

"The traditional family tree of Banu Tamim is as follows: Tamim bin Murr bin 'Id bin Amr bin Ilyas bin Mudar[1]bin Nizar bin Ma'ad bin Adnan[10] - a distant descendant of Isma'il bin Ibrahim (Ishmael, son of Abraham).[11]

Banu Tamim is an Adnanite tribe, descended from Adnan."

There's many other adnani/qurayshi people that got haplogroup T, but that's just one of them.

Including the Kuwait and Bahrain royal family that are well known adnanis are haplogroup T.

There's many haplogroup candidates for the adnan haplogroup, not just J.

As for the azd, we already matched some or someone from an azd derived Arab tribe and the person or they are haplogroup T.

 

[Griezmann7711]

The Rahanweyn one is totally different, and it matches up with their theories.

What's their theories?

 

[Aic]

What's their theories?

They have a ancestor by the name of Abu Diin or something who is Arab. Just those specific group who got T.

 

[Step a side]

It's no doubt that J is the biggest haplogroup in the Arabian peninsula, where did you get the T % frequency, it might be that high overall but in some places it's 25-70%+.

Banu Khalid tribe for example, a well known quraysh tribe is 43% haplogroup T, 43 out of 99 is like 43.43%.

View attachment 275210


One UAE emirate has even higher haplogroup T frequency as high as 59.76% which is almost 60%.
View attachment 275209

The phylogenetic tree of T-M184 shows various Arab-Jewish tribes and one of them being being banu tamim which is one of the largest adnani tribes and one of the largest Arab tribes.

View attachment 275216

The traditional family tree of Banu Tamim is as follows: Tamim bin Murr bin 'Id bin Amr bin Ilyas bin Mudar[1]bin Nizar bin Ma'ad bin Adnan[10] - a distant descendant of Isma'il bin Ibrahim (Ishmael, son of Abraham).[11]

Banu Tamim is an Adnanite tribe, descended from Adnan.

There's many other adnani/qurayshi people that got haplogroup T, but that's just one of them.

Including the Kuwait and Bahrain royal family that are well known adnanis are haplogroup T.

There's many haplogroup candidates for the adnan haplogroup, not just J.

As for the azd, we already matched some or someone from an azd derived Arab tribe.

Arabs formed alliances with other tribes and took their abtirsi hence the differences between lineages even within the same tribe. People claim Adnan for prestige. You will find people with all sorts of lineage claiming Adnan like A, T, B, E , R, G, J2 etc

 

[Step a side]

@Griezmann7711

T is never more than 9% in Arabia while J1 is never less than 50% in all the studies

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759955/

I can send more studies but no way is Adnan and the prophet Muhammad from a minority lineage. They are from the FGC11 cluster everyone else is assimilated who claims Adnan

 

[Griezmann7711]

They have a ancestor by the name of Abu Diin or something who is Arab. Just those specific group who got T.

Which is the sub clan of the Rahanweyn that got the T haplogroup? Is it hadame or macalinweyne?

I think it's either hadame or macalinweyne, my friend uploaded his results his hadama rahanweyn he got T and maybe some people in that thread talked about him being close to that T carrying rahanweyn on YFull. He also told me about Macalinweyne sub of Rahanweyn being of Isaaq origin so that's why I assumed Macalinweyne could be the sub clan of the rahanwyen T on yfull.

 

[Step a side]

They have a ancestor by the name of Abu Diin or something who is Arab. Just those specific group who got T.

The T they carry is carried by other Africans. It seems to be Cushitic and very old.

T-Y15711 YTree

www.yfull.com

 

[Aic]

Which is the sub clan of the Rahanweyn that got the T haplogroup? Is it hadame or macalinweyne?

I think it's either hadame or macalinweyne, my friend uploaded his results his hadama rahanweyn he got T and maybe some people in that thread talked about him being close to that T carrying rahanweyn on YFull. He also told me about Macalinweyne sub of Rahanweyn being of Isaaq origin so that's why I assumed Macalinweyne could be the sub clan of the rahanwyen T on yfull.

Luwaay. The one we have on Y-Full is Luwaay I think but there are also Hadame T results, even on this forum. Hadame and Luwaay are brothers anyway and are part of Sideed or Sagaal or whichever it is. They are not Isaaq though, they carry a different branch.

 

[Griezmann7711]

@Griezmann7711

T is never more than 9% in Arabia while J1 is never less than 50% in all the studies

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759955/

I can send more studies but no way is Adnan and the prophet Muhammad from a minority lineage. They are from the FGC11 cluster everyone else is assimilated who claims Adnan

In that same site you sent me the frequency of J in Iraq it's 31.03%, Jordan is 30.82%, Lebanon is 20.09%, UAE is 34.97% and in Oman it's 38%. Some place it says SAR is 40.13%, idk what sar is I thought it could possibly be Saudi but Saudi is usually abbreviated ksa (kingdom of Saudi Arabia) and it already says Saudi is 58% J. As you see, all of them except Saudi it's below 50%, so it's not a majority haplogroup it's possibly a plurality haplogroup (largest single haplogroup). It's less than 50%, so you were wrong in saying "J1 is never less than 50% in all the studies".

 

[Griezmann7711]

Luwaay. The one we have on Y-Full is Luwaay I think but there are also Hadame T results, even on this forum. Hadame and Luwaay are brothers anyway and are part of Sideed or Sagaal or whichever it is. They are not Isaaq though, they carry a different branch.

Yeah I saw maybe a comment of a person he could also be luwaay and he said that person is luwaay, I try to find the thread and send it to you. He may have said the original poster aka my hadame rahanweyn friend that posted his T hapllogroup is close to the Yfull T rahanwyen guy probably bc as you said, luwaay and hadame are brothers. Yes, there's another thread talking about digil and mirifle census and it says hadame and luwaay are sagaal not sideed.

Here's the thread you can check it out: digil-mirifle-census-1931.144738


I just realised sagaal is the number 9, I know it is but I have seen it as a name. Maybe a female name or does both genders name themselves that? Also sideed is 7. Are these sub clan names on purpose or does it mean something else?

 

[Step a side]

In that same site you sent me the frequency of J in Iraq it's 31.03%, Jordan is 30.82%, Lebanon is 20.09%, UAE is 34.97% and in Oman it's 38%. Some place it says SAR is 40.13%, idk what sar is I thought it could possibly be Saudi but Saudi is usually abbreviated ksa (kingdom of Saudi Arabia) and it already says Saudi is 58% J. As you see, all of them except Saudi it's below 50%, so it's not a majority haplogroup it's possibly a plurality haplogroup (largest single haplogroup). It's less than 50%, so you were wrong in saying "J1 is never less than 50% in all the studies".

Adnan is Saudi. Iraq , Syria, Palestine are not Adnan or Qathan. They have different groups like Kurds, Turkmen, Assyrians etc that live with them.

 

[reer]

Adnan is Saudi. Iraq , Syria, Palestine are not Adnan or Qathan. They have different groups like Kurds, Turkmen, Assyrians etc that live with them.

iraq has major tribes like anizah amd shammar and shaiban. also jordan has anizah shammar huwaitat atiya tribes same as arabia.

 

[Griezmann7711]

Adnan is Saudi. Iraq , Syria, Palestine are not Adnan or Qathan. They have different groups like Kurds, Turkmen, Assyrians etc that live with them.

Adnan is not concentrated to those countries they are in many other ones.