Marital rape is real

[HalimaJ]

First of all you made a few mistakes in your definitions. Sexual assault is every act where you do any type of sexual act on someone without the consent of the victim, whereas rape is a specific form of sexual assault, where you penetrate the victim, i.e. get with something into his body. This two are not equivalent, rape is just a specific type where penetration is involved. [According to modern western law]

We are discussing the act where a husband forcefully penetrates the body of his wife, correct ? So is this sexual assault ? Yes because the husband has forced the wife to perform a sexual act without her consent. Is it rape ? NO, even though the husband has penetrated her body it is NOT rape, because the two persons are married. This was a unanimously agreed upon law until recent western law makers chnages their opinions in the 20th/21th century. A husband cannot RAPE his own wife.

In other words let us differentiate between three cases:

1. Sexual assault is every sexual act which is performed without the consent of the victim.

2. Rape is, If you additionally penetrate the body of the victim.

3. If the victim (wife) gets penetrated by her husband against he will, than it cannot be classified as rape, because they are married. It is a form of sexual assault, but which type it is, should be a question for law makers.

The simple reason why case three is not Rape is, the legal consequences are complelty different, which you agreed in your last paragraph as well. In case two (Rape) the perpetrator will most likely face the death penalty, whereas I do not think anyone would say the perpetrator in the third case (penetrating the wife without her consent) should get the same penalty.

Now to respond to a few of your arguments. When I say martial rape does not exist it does not mean sexual assault does not exist. Martial rape implicates that the perpetrator (husband) is a rapist and should face the same legal consequences as a rapist (death penalty), which is complelty non sense. As for sexual assault it means any type of sexual act was performed on the wife without her consent and this is the case when her husband forces her to sleep with her, i.e. penetrates her. I already called this wrong, but calling this rape is delusional.

Another point. A wife should NOT and doesn't have the right to deny her husband his right for sex (and vice verca). No human being forces his wife for sex when she is in a bad mood or sick. I would advise any brother who is a married to such an evil woman ( who constantly denies his right for sex) to either marry a second wife or get rid of her.

As long as you understand that a husband has no right to sexually abuse/assault his wife. I cannot be asked to argue with you over semantics. So lets leave that to the side.

The bit in bold is a mad stretch. Many people in this world, emotionally and physically abuse their wives. What makes you think some also don't sexually abuse her for the exact reason they physically abuse her?

At the end of the day abuse is abuse, usually the motive is the same which is to humiliate. Many battered women have tales of husbands beating them and then forcefully sexually assaulting/raping them as a way to degrade them further.
Therefore my point is, abusers do not usually rape because they are so horny they can't control themselves, it is usually because rape/assault is a tool that oppresses and subjects the victim. It is a power trip and a way to illustrate their extreme disrespect for the individual. Hence, people need to stop having that simple analogy in their heads that the wife must have been denying him for no reason and that is the case all the time, because lets be real a normal man would talk to her to find out what is wrong and if that fails he would divorce.

Also, when a man is not the type to see a woman's humanity and ability to give 'consent' in the first place, sex is not something they will see as a union of two people freely enjoying each other. Some men have an unhealthy attitude to sex and the industry has made it worse. Violence and force within sex is a growing fetish.

Saying 'no humanbeing' is ridiculous considering humans are oppressing each other day in and out. Look at the world around you.

 

[error]

All you do is PicknChoose. You're a supremacist which is bloody haraam. Hell half the shit you've said is straight up haraam.

I'm still going to get into her sugar walls whenever I want and she's gonna get the rod whenever she wants.

 

[HalimaJ]

I'm still going to get into her sugar walls whenever I want and she's gonna get the rod whenever she wants.

So if she says no one night are you going to beat and overpower her then forcefully have sex with her?

 

[Abdurahman_somali]

As long as you understand that a husband has no right to sexually abuse/assault his wife. I cannot be asked to argue with you over semantics. So lets leave that to the side.

The bit in bold is a mad stretch. Many people in this world, emotionally and physically abuse their wives. What makes you think some also don't sexually abuse her for the exact reason they physically abuse her?

At the end of the day abuse is abuse, usually the motive is the same which is to humiliate. Many battered women have tales of husbands beating them and then forcefully sexually assaulting/raping them as a way to degrade them further.
Therefore my point is, abusers do not usually rape because they are so horny they can't control themselves, it is usually because rape/assault is a tool that oppresses and subjects the victim. It is a power trip and a way to illustrate their extreme disrespect for the individual. Hence, people need to stop having that simple analogy in their heads that the wife must have been denying him for no reason and that is the case all the time, because lets be real a normal man would talk to her to find out what is wrong and if that fails he would divorce.

Also, when a man is not the type to see a woman's humanity and ability to give 'consent' in the first place, sex is not something they will see as a union of two people freely enjoying each other. Some men have an unhealthy attitude to sex and the industry has made it worse. Violence and force within sex is a growing fetish.

Saying 'no humanbeing' is ridiculous considering humans are oppressing each other day in and out. Look at the world around you.

You agree and I agree that there is nothing called martial rape, because the husband cannot rape a wife. That was the question of the OP and it seems we both have the same opinion to that. We can give it other names, but it is not rape and has not the same legal consequences. Before we go into any other deeper discussion you could tell the Xalimos on this thread that this is not rape.

 

[HalimaJ]

You agree and I agree that there is nothing called martial rape, because the husband cannot rape a wife. That was the question of the OP and it seems we both have the same opinion to that. We can give it other names, but it is not rape and has not the same legal consequences. Before we go into any other deeper discussion you could tell the Xalimos on this thread that this is not rape.

I would still call it marital rape. Just that the punishments would be different.
Rape is a type of sexual assualt that involves penetrating. If a husband has sexually assaulted his wife and forcefully penetrated her then by all definitions it is marital rape.

I merely agree that islamically, a husband is not liable to hadd punishment and that the consequences are very different. It is a form of domestic violence when it happens within the context of marriage.

However, does it exist? Of course. He is still forcing it without her consent which in the strictest dictionary definition is marital rape.

 

[Omar del Sur]

"Then, in 1979, a pair of cases highlighted changing legal attitudes about the concept.

Until then, most state criminal codes had rape definitions that explicitly excluded spouses."

https://time.com/3975175/spousal-rape-case-history/

Marital rape does not exist. Marriage is consent. This was recognized for basically all of human history until 1979.

By definition, a husband cannot rape his wife.

 

[Omar del Sur]

If a husband has sexually assaulted his wife and forcefully penetrated her then by all definitions it is marital rape.

except definitions from prior to 1979 as well as a lot of other definitions

 

[HalimaJ]

except definitions from prior to 1979 as well as a lot of other definitions

Call it marital rape

Abuse

Assault ect. Doesn't matter what you want to name it.

The bottom line is that this is something you do not have a right to do. Its scum behaviour.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Call it marital rape

Abuse

Assault ect. Doesn't matter what you want to name it.

The bottom line is that this is something you do not have a right to do. Its scum behaviour.

the husband has a right to have sex with his wife. she consented when she married him. if there's a problem, she can seek a divorce.

 

[HalimaJ]

the husband has a right to have sex with his wife. if there's a problem, she can seek a divorce.

Does he have the right to sexually abuse/assault her if she refuses to sleep with him.

We are not talking about his rights to sex.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Does he have the right to sexually abuse/assault her if she refuses to sleep with him.

We are not talking about his rights to sex.

you load it by calling it sexual abuse/assault. a husband having sex with his wife is not sexual abuse.

if you have differing views, you're free to your views. I'm free to mine. You can marry a man who shares your views.

 

[HalimaJ]

Some of the men of sspot are absolutely scum and their mindset towards sex is incredibly unhealthy.

you load it by calling it sexual abuse/assault. a husband having sex with his wife is not sexual abuse.

if you have differing views, you're free to your views. I'm free to mine. You can marry a man who shares your views.

Sex is an act that two people engage in willingly and respectfully.

A man forcing himself on a woman is not sex.

Islamic scholars regard that as domestic abuse. I don't understand why you are trying to portray this as normal sex.

Its actually scary wallahi.

@Abdurahman_somali this is precisely what I mean. Some you men don't even know what sex is.

 

[Omar del Sur]

if you have differing views, you're free to your views. I'm free to mine. You can marry a man who shares your views.

Some of the men of sspot are absolutely scum and their mindset towards sex is incredibly unhealthy.

I say you're free to your own views. You say a person must agree with you or they are scum.

In any case, whether you realize it or not, your views are not binding on people and people are free to think differently than you.

 

[error]

So if she says no one night are you going to beat and overpower her then forcefully have sex with her?

I might have to slap her for her to understand she's not in power.

I will never damage a woman but a slap is like washing your face with cold water it wakes you up.

 

[AussieHustler]

If the wife disobeys the commands of her husband, he should beat her with a miswak/a tree branch toothbrush until she complies with the husband’s demands. Is she a child? You can’t reason about marital rape with someone who believes in such a feudal society philosophy about modern family dynamics. Having you noticed these societies are the most backward, lesser educated and more prone to violence!! To each their own.

 

[HalimaJ]

I say you're free to your own views. You say a person must agree with you or they are scum.

In any case, whether you realize it or not, your views are not binding on people and people are free to think differently than you.

You can think for yourself, but when your views lack morals and compassion for the other half that makes up society and you dress it up a an Islamic approach I have every right to view you as scum.

In Islam, there are etiquettes surrounding sex, you're not even meant to have sex without foreplay and getting her in the mood and you think slapping her about and sticking it in without her consent is acceptable behaviour?

 

[Omar del Sur]

"The husband cannot be guilty of a rape committed by himself upon his lawful wife, for by their mutual consent and contract the wife hath given up herself in this kind unto her husband, which she cannot retract."

-Sir Matthew Hale

 

[HalimaJ]

"The husband cannot be guilty of a rape committed by himself upon his lawful wife, for by their mutual consent and contract the wife hath given up herself in this kind unto her husband, which she cannot retract."

-Sir Matthew Hale

I actually provided Islamic daleel from Islamic sites, whilst you provided evidence from a 19th century man who probably believed that women have no rights to inherit property or be educated.

 

[Omar del Sur]

You can think for yourself, but when your views lack morals and compassion for the other half that makes up society and you dress it up a an Islamic approach I have every right to view you as scum.

In Islam, there are etiquettes surrounding sex, you're not even meant to have sex without foreplay and getting her in the mood and you think slapping her about and sticking it in without her consent is acceptable behaviour?

Yes, you are free to take a self-righteous position and simply see anyone who disagrees with you as scum rather than simply have a respectful discussion.

When did I say anything about slapping the woman? I haven't said anything about slapping women. As I understand it, you use the miswak.

 

[Omar del Sur]

I actually provided Islamic daleel from Islamic sites, whilst you provided evidence from a 19th century man who probably believed that women have no rights to inherit property or be educated.

If you can show me where Quran or Sunnah affirm that there is something called "marital rape" and that it's haraam then you're free to show me.

The people in the days of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) probably never even heard of such a concept. You express being against someone for being from the 19th century. What would you think about people from 1,400 years ago then?

You can think what you want but I believe in following Islam as it was understood by the earliest generations.