Map and classification of the Omo-Tana languages (the language group Somali is in), OC (Revised)

[Idilinaa]

I think my skepticism comes from the fact that If you look at the bulk of this list it becomes obvious that most of these lanaguges he's comparing in the omo-tana stuff are basically lamaguges that are right next to each other or would have been the source of slaves that are working in the jubba valley.


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If you look at this picture and imagine the pre-oromo expansion range of these lanaguges then theyre basically the southern Ethiopia region which one of the prime sources of slaves .
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I don’t agree with the Omo-Tana classification. There’s really no such thing as an “Omo-Tana language group” , these are simply closely related languages and dialects that branched off from a common source. Linguists such as M. Nuuh Ali and others have attributed the differences among them primarily to ecological separation and social interaction patterns that shaped their development over time.


The idea of a Southern Somali or Southern Ethiopian origin also makes little sense. It relies too heavily on the “least moves principle,” which assumes that the area with the greatest linguistic diversity must be the point of origin. However, this principle doesn’t hold true for many languages, Somali included.

As for the claim that slavery influenced dialect formation. I find that unconvincing as well. Some of the largest slave owners historically were Northern Somali speakers, not Southerners.

When people are adopted or assimilated into another community, they generally take on the language and dialect of that group; they don’t reshape or alter it significantly.

 

[Zak12]

which assumes that the area with the greatest linguistic diversity must be the point of origin.

That is a good point. For example its like claiming Semitic languages originated from Ethiopia as that branch is very diverse in that country.

Personally, I think the mere fact that Proto-Somalis had words for camel and used them is proof alone that they couldn't have come from the south. Not only are both that animal and the word geel itself heavily rooted to northern Somalia's environment, the only reason proto-Somalis managed to inhabit to much territory is because of camels.

 

[Idilinaa]

That is a good point. For example its like claiming Semitic languages originated from Ethiopia as that branch is very diverse in that country.

Personally, I think the mere fact that Proto-Somalis had words for camel and used them is proof alone that they couldn't have come from the south. Not only are both that animal and the word geel itself heavily rooted to northern Somalia's environment, the only reason proto-Somalis managed to inhabit to much territory is because of camels.

Very true.

When it comes to discussions about Somalis, it’s important to remember that many of the most popular narratives about our language, economy, or history often overlook basic common sense and contradict available evidence, largely due to bias. In other cases, people reach hasty conclusions based on insufficient data, rather than reserving judgment until more reliable information is available.

 

[Midas]

Very true.
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When it comes to discussions about Somalis, it’s important to remember that many of the most popular narratives about our language, economy, or history often overlook basic common sense and contradict available evidence, largely due to bias. In other cases, people reach hasty conclusions based on insufficient data, rather than reserving judgment until more reliable information is available.

The fundamental underpinning narrative about somali history is that were newcomers and that everything about us must have some external source.

The biggest problem with all the theories on somali migrations into the horn is that we have no evidence for somalis mixing with another pouplation. Even the yammnya who were the first indo-europeans who basically expanded all over Europe and due to a combination of disease and warfare were able to completely replace the earlier pouplations in Northern europe still show huge amounts of non-indoeuropean ancestry


But somalis somehow show no evidence of this.

 

[Idilinaa]

The fundamental underpinning narrative about somali history is that were newcomers and that everything about us must have some external source.

The biggest problem with all the theories on somali migrations into the horn is that we have no evidence for somalis mixing with another pouplation. Even the yammnya who were the first indo-europeans who basically expanded all over Europe and due to a combination of disease and warfare were able to completely replace the earlier pouplations in Northern europe still show huge amounts of non-indoeuropean ancestry


But somalis somehow show no evidence of this.

There is also no material and archeological evidence left behind to support that particular Somali migration theory, that they are new comers. Nor any substratum linguistically either of any other group pre-dating us in our current homeland.

As Herbert Lewis and Said Shidad pointed out while examining the textual records from ancient period to our modern era, the descriptions points to a basic population continuity.

 

[Midas]

There is also no material and archeological evidence left behind to support that particular Somali migration theory, that they are new comers. Nor any substratum linguistically either of any other group pre-dating us in our current homeland.

As Herbert Lewis and Said Shidad pointed out while examining the textual records from ancient period to our modern era, the descriptions points to a basic population continuity.

Plus we also have this massive geographical barrier called the danakil desert which is one of the one of tje hottest places on earth with Dalol having the highest avg temperature ever recorded on earth.
There was probably nobody living here for before the domestication of camels since it wasn't a place humans could survive .

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

This is how Christopher Ehret divides Oma Tana:
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And this is how M Nuuh Ali divides Somali dialects
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I don't believe that there is any difference, at all, between the Somali spoken in Cadale and that spoken in Djibouti. There is no difference between the Somali of Ismaciil Cumar Geele and Xasan Sheekh Maxamuud. The differences are meaningless. Maxaa Tiri is one language that basically has no subdivisions that are linguistically meaningful.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

I think it would be just simpler to assume that its somali influence on afar-saho.

I know it might seem like im being biased but I think one of the biggest fall outs from 20th century colonial historiography is how every similarity somalis share with another group of people is assumed to be a sign of that group influencencing somalis. Ive almost never seen anything written where the shared similarity is attributed to a somali origin

This is an important point since until the Oromo migrations Somalis were the largest Cushitic group, and had probably been the largest for a very long time.

But I think the biggest flaw in the omo tana theory is that why dont the somali galbeed dialects whidh border the other eastern cushtic lanaguges not retain these features or even a sign of them?

A study of the Gariire language of Ceel Kari would be very interesting. I wonder why no one has bothered to study the Gariire language?

 

[Midas]

This is an important point since until the Oromo migrations Somalis were the largest Cushitic group, and had probably been the largest for a very long time.



A study of the Gariire language of Ceel Kari would be very interesting. I wonder why no one has bothered to study the Gariire language?

We werent jusy the largest. We basically occupied the entire lowland region and it waa the bake mountains and the awash valley that formed the nautral borders for where somali inhabitantion stooped.

 

[Zak12]

We werent jusy the largest. We basically occupied the entire lowland region and it waa the bake mountains and the awash valley that formed the nautral borders for where somali inhabitantion stooped.


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Our natural borders were the highlands to the west, gulf of aden to the north, the indian ocean to the east and lake tana to the south.

 

[Idilinaa]

I don't believe that there is any difference, at all, between the Somali spoken in Cadale and that spoken in Djibouti. There is no difference between the Somali of Ismaciil Cumar Geele and Xasan Sheekh Maxamuud. The differences are meaningless. Maxaa Tiri is one language that basically has no subdivisions that are linguistically meaningful.

All the dialect groups are part of one language because they share the same cultural history and branched out from a common origin. There is regional lexical and pronunciation differences in AF Maxaa Tiri . Like how Reer Waqooyi say "Suuli" and Reer Koonfuur say "Musquul" and so on. Even small differences in certain expressions and idioms as well.

Its in the same way there is lexical differences between different forms of English . Like an American might say "Sweater" and a British person might say "Jumper" etc.

 

[reer]

You are onto something because in some respects it could be the way around:

Rendille retains the x sound whereas as Af Maay doesn’t. It also present in Iraqw. The Arabic or saho/afar influence doesn’t make sense in this regard because Rendille are isolated from all those groups. I think Af Maay lost the sound when they became isolated from af mahaa speakers. Interestingly, it is what the two speakers use to differentiate themselves into “af Maxa” and” Maay”, a group who says X and a group who doesn’t. I don’t buy into the theory af Maxa was heavily influenced by Saho or Afar. Arabic (especially South Arabian needs to be researched more though).

@Shimbiris @Idilinaa

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[Midas]

Our natural borders were the highlands to the west, gulf of aden to the north, the indian ocean to the east and lake tana to the south.

What im really curious about is how long we've been a unified group inhabiting the somali pensiula for.
It was probaly before the domestication of camels since Its not like there's any part of somalia thats so inhospitable you would need a camel to live there.

We also seemed to seemed to be really good at breeding livestock thats incredibly selected for our environmental. Theres a reason somali sheep was used by crossbreeders worldwide.