Lets Talk Science

[BestCaseScenario]

The point is, if these tools didn't exist and atheist would have to conclude anything we can't see, hear, feel, touch, or test with tools doesn't exist and that's simply not the case. What if the tools you have don't pick up things that are outside of your measurement tools? does it mean automatically that things don't start to exist just cause you cant test it or don't have the means to test it?

We have this flawed understanding of things and we link it to our abilities, there are things that could be outside of our ability, it's so dangerous to limit everything you know just to human intelligence, it really is.

I am impressed. Reality is, we don't know much of anything despite the appearance of knowledge and with the advanced scientific discoveries. Humans tend to exaggerate their abilities as you put it well bro. People had no clue about Atom and what it looks like hundred years ago. In fact, the man who first proposed things are made of tiny indivisible balls called Atom was ridiculed so bad by his peers he took his life by hanging. His name is Ludwig Boltzmann. Years later after his death, Einstein proved his theory by observing Brownian motion. History of science is amazing saxib and exposes the ignorance of people who claim God does not exist.

That is why I dismiss all of them as ignorant people. They insult the human intelligence with their claims.

 

[BestCaseScenario]

Here is a brief video talking about Brownian Motion and How Einstein used it to prove Atoms are real even if you can't see them. Before his mathematical suggestion and argument, no one took the theory seriously and nothing useful was known About Atoms. Talk about Crazy. This was 1905. Amazing progress had been made in a century after this argument. This was the birth of Quantum Mechanics although it was not known as such initially. From here, in few years, classical physics head-butted quantum mechanics and Einstein himself was uneasy about the direction of physics lol. It was around the time he made the comment "God doesn't play Dice".

 

[Weydamal]

How do you reach a conclusion it is there without sensing it or at the very least having evidence left behind something was there like a feather left behind indicates a bird was there even though I don't see the bird with own two eyes?

So what sort of evidence do you safely assume a moth was flying around in the darkness of your room with the lights off without it touching you, without u seeing it, no hearing, no smelling and it left behind no tangible evidence say for example a shit in your room or a thread of it's body?

Dark matter and Dark energy are interesting as it would be similar to that moth that flew by me in the darkness and if it wasn't for the light, I wouldn't of seen it, heard it, felt it, smelled it, nor was there any evidence left behind for me to assess as it just went past me at a quick speed!!!

If I was an atheist, I would say that moth never existed just cause there is no way I can prove it but does that mean it doesn't exist? Imagine how many things are lurking in the darkness and if you don't have the tool of lights, dna collection, sensory, audio tools, etc most people would say it doesn't exist but no that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means you lack the available tools to detect it lol.

This is an age old question. Does phenomena exist if one cannot see it, smell it, feel it, touch it, measure it etc. Materialist science would obviously claim that something doesn't exist if it cannot be measured, either by the senses or instruments. But this is a challengable concept, and one of the weaknesses of the scientific method, for the simple reasons that senses are limited and measuring equipments are not perfect or are still being perfected because technology is always evolving. To illustrate, before the advent of the microscope, we could not perceive or understand the presence and role of microbes, dna etc. The world of the small was invisible to us. So if you lived during this time, if a time traveller came to you and talked of an invisible bacteria called mycobacterium tuberculosis as the cause of TB, you would think him mad. Without the telescope, the night sky was full of lamps, shining from a distance.

Improved technology has opened up the world of the small and the world of the large. If we assume that technology will always become better, it stands to reason that in the future , we will discover things that seem mysterious to us now, things that we confine to the philosophical, the spiritual and the the metaphysical.

In other words , in explaining, describing and observing phenomena, we are bound both by the prejudices of our time and the technological advances or limitations available to us.

Every minute we live, every discovery we make, should awaken us to the wonder and mystery of the cosmos.

This is why I always quote the wise words of Hamlet:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

[Weydamal]

Out of the blue, I have a work date with a guy who will show me the process of melting Gold crucibles in a machine we use for research.

If you folks are interested in some practical applications of science, I can share a little bit of what happens at work that is science related.

One of the downsides to studying subjects of science in schools is the fact that many won't see the subjects applied in the real world and they lose interest.

I am lucky in the sense that I am exposed to projects that are scientific and people share information if I ask what they are doing at work. Some can't indulge in what they do for patent related prohibitions and represent private companies using our institution for research, but others from academia are more open about their projects with us since we help them with their projects.

Some of the stuff might be relevant to this thread. I am not sure. Because of my work, I was forced to study some chemistry, some physics, electronics, and technology in the nano scale..

Take Care Guys For Now.

I would encourage you to take this line of applied science. While pure, abstract science is fascinating and rewarding on its own, and has often led to practical applications, I find that as a human being with limited time on this earth, a more practical approach to science has the potential to help others in society.
For example, have you heard of the Groasis Waterbox designed by the Dutchman Peter Hoff? It's a low tech invention that captures dew or condensation in the air and releases it to a growing plant. It is being used to grow trees in the driest areas of the world. Condensation is simple , well understood concept, and a container to channel the water available in the air to a plant is the simplest thing to construct. You don't need to buy a fancy Waterbox, you can construct one if you understand the concepts of condensation and capillary action.
Yet the impact is great in terms of tree planting in arid areas. Ninety percent of the trees grown using this method survive the harsh arid climates. Imagine what this could do for Somalia.

This is the kind of science that I'm talking about, simple, effective up with huge impact.

 

[BestCaseScenario]

I would encourage you to take this line of applied science. While pure, abstract science is fascinating and rewarding on its own, and has often led to practical applications, I find that as a human being with limited time on this earth, a more practical approach to science has the potential to help others in society.
For example, have you heard of the Groasis Waterbox designed by the Dutchman Peter Hoff? It's a low tech invention that captures dew or condensation in the air and releases it to a growing plant. It is being used to grow trees in the driest areas of the world. Condensation is simple , well understood concept, and a container to channel the water available in the air to a plant is the simplest thing to construct. You don't need to buy a fancy Waterbox, you can construct one if you understand the concepts of condensation and capillary action.
Yet the impact is great in terms of tree planting in arid areas. Ninety percent of the trees grown using this method survive the harsh arid climates. Imagine what this could do for Somalia.

This is the kind of science that I'm talking about, simple, effective up with huge impact.

There is hope for semi desert countries like Somalia with the technology you describe. And I haven't heard of this particular technology. Seems interesting.

I have a degree in applied science btw. It is a combination of many fields and was designed to help engineering disciplines in development/research/manufacturing settings . It was accidental for me to study for this degree and work related after I started at a low level in a technology company. To get promoted, they told me to get a college degree or start college and take applied science degree. They paid for it so I thought why the heck not.

Although I am not an engineer, I do know more than engineering graduates and Phd candidates in some of their respective fields because I had been on the ground working hands on technically in the field. A working knowledge of chemistry, physics, and electronics was the requirement and that is what I did study in college for the degree.


Saxib, you are educated. I like how you guys handle the English(better than me). You guys make me proud, all of you in this thread. Keep up the good work. My plan is to go back to Somalia inshallah in my later years and donate my time to young kids. Life is short and it is better to leave something useful behind. I am working on another degree slowly, which will take years to get due to my full time work schedule and other priorities.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

I would encourage you to take this line of applied science. While pure, abstract science is fascinating and rewarding on its own, and has often led to practical applications, I find that as a human being with limited time on this earth, a more practical approach to science has the potential to help others in society.
For example, have you heard of the Groasis Waterbox designed by the Dutchman Peter Hoff? It's a low tech invention that captures dew or condensation in the air and releases it to a growing plant. It is being used to grow trees in the driest areas of the world. Condensation is simple , well understood concept, and a container to channel the water available in the air to a plant is the simplest thing to construct. You don't need to buy a fancy Waterbox, you can construct one if you understand the concepts of condensation and capillary action.
Yet the impact is great in terms of tree planting in arid areas. Ninety percent of the trees grown using this method survive the harsh arid climates. Imagine what this could do for Somalia.

This is the kind of science that I'm talking about, simple, effective up with huge impact.

It would be revolutionary if this tech created by the orangists can be applied to crops.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

Intellectuals, I plan to go back to Somalia and invest my time, money and effort in improving food production, specifically crops as droughts are creating huge problems for our communities, we don't want NGO's giving us food forever, we must be independent.

I do biosciences at uni and I'm hoping to master in plant sciences very soon Insha'Allah.

What I want to know is what's the best way in improving food production in Somalia? Would it be GMO's. I've heard terrible things about them so I don't really want to let Somalis consume such things knowing that it will harm them in many ways.

There are many plants already that are drought resistant such as sorghum, millets, pigeonpea, cowpea and green gram. I think its time we use what Allah has provided for us and mass produce these crops with the latest crop producing techniques.

 

[Weydamal]

There is hope for semi desert countries like Somalia with the technology you describe. And I haven't heard of this particular technology. Seems interesting.

I have a degree in applied science btw. It is a combination of many fields and was designed to help engineering disciplines in development/research/manufacturing settings . It was accidental for me to study for this degree and work related after I started at a low level in a technology company. To get promoted, they told me to get a college degree or start college and take applied science degree. They paid for it so I thought why the heck not.

Although I am not an engineer, I do know more than engineering graduates and Phd candidates in some of their respective fields because I had been on the ground working hands on technically in the field. A working knowledge of chemistry, physics, and electronics was the requirement and that is what I did study in college for the degree.


Saxib, you are educated. I like how you guys handle the English(better than me). You guys make me proud, all of you in this thread. Keep up the good work. My plan is to go back to Somalia inshallah in my later years and donate my time to young kids. Life is short and it is better to leave something useful behind. I am working on another degree slowly, which will take years to get due to my full time work schedule and other priorities.

This clip shows how the water box works. Of course one can build a much simpler box using the same principles. One could even make the box from a biodegradable material, so the that it's absorbed as nutrients by the soil, or from more permanent material for reuse. The principle is simple, trapping water through condensation or the limited rainwater available.

I think there is nothing better than keeping a positive attitude and doing something, no matter how small. A single Somali man or woman who, for example, plants even one tree , or educates one child is, a thousand times better than a thousand Somalis wasting a lifetime in coffee shops, watching the world go by.

 

[Weydamal]

Intellectuals, I plan to go back to Somalia and invest my time, money and effort in improving food production, specifically crops as droughts are creating huge problems for our communities, we don't want NGO's giving us food forever, we must be independent.

I do biosciences at uni and I'm hoping to master in plant sciences very soon Insha'Allah.

What I want to know is what's the best way in improving food production in Somalia? Would it be GMO's. I've heard terrible things about them so I don't really want to let Somalis consume such things knowing that it will harm them in many ways.

There are many plants already that are drought resistant such as sorghum, millets, pigeonpea, cowpea and green gram. I think its time we use what Allah has provided for us and mass produce these crops with the latest crop producing techniques.

Merchant,

The most important factors in food production are arable soils, temperature and availability of water. In Somalia, the first two are potentially available everywhere, while the third is more abundant in the south, especially along the two rivers.
However, it's possible to plant crops anywhere there is water. Rainfed agriculture is unreliable at best, given the low and unreliable rainfall. This is the biggest challenge in Somalia. To overcome this you must start with water harvesting, collecting and preserving the little rainwater available. Secondly, one must adopt soil conservation techniques, agroforestry,permaculture, drought resistant crops like the ones you mentioned. I wouldn't encourage gmo crops because of so many reasons I cannot articulate for now, but the literature is there. Organic farming would be the way to go.
In terms of crops, I think the problem is not that we can't produce enough crops in Somalia. Given the right techniques,and the right crops, we can produce a surplus in Somalia. The problem is cultural. Let me illustrate.
What do Somalis consume as cereals? Wheat based products (baasto, kibis, canjeela,sabaayad, rooti etc) and rice. Wheat is not grown in Somalia. Rice was grown in limited quantities in the Kacaan era, but most rice was and is still imported.
Now, sorghum or hadhuudh, is a hardy, drought resistant crop , little grown and little consumed in Somalia ( mainly in Northern Somalia). It's declining as a crop. Yet if we switched Somali consumption habits, so that we all ate canjeela made from hadhuudh, we would create a demand for it, the farmers would produce it in abundance, and our local environmental conditions would support sorghum production.
The same could be said of cassava, cow peas, pigeon peas, finger millet,fonio, mung beans and the various other cereals, pulses and tubers that are drought resistant and have a short growing period with high yields.

We have to change what we eat, create the demand for locally produced foods, and the farmers will do the rest.
And of course, our wives have to learn or be taught how to produce mouthwatering foods from these products.

As for farming techniques in arid lands, there are many approaches to getting the best out of a bad situation. Look at the clip below, a bit long winded, but explains how permaculture was used to transform a very arid area in Jordan.

Keep on increasing your knowledge, we need more plant scientists in Somalia, given the catastrophic droughts and famines we face as a people.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

Merchant,

The most important factors in food production are arable soils, temperature and availability of water. In Somalia, the first two are potentially available everywhere, while the third is more abundant in the south, especially along the two rivers.
However, it's possible to plant crops anywhere there is water. Rainfed agriculture is unreliable at best, given the low and unreliable rainfall. This is the biggest challenge in Somalia. To overcome this you must start with water harvesting, collecting and preserving the little rainwater available. Secondly, one must adopt soil conservation techniques, agroforestry,permaculture, drought resistant crops like the ones you mentioned. I wouldn't encourage gmo crops because of so many reasons I cannot articulate for now, but the literature is there. Organic farming would be the way to go.
In terms of crops, I think the problem is not that we can't produce enough crops in Somalia. Given the right techniques,and the right crops, we can produce a surplus in Somalia. The problem is cultural. Let me illustrate.
What do Somalis consume as cereals? Wheat based products (baasto, kibis, canjeela,sabaayad, rooti etc) and rice. Wheat is not grown in Somalia. Rice was grown in limited quantities in the Kacaan era, but most rice was and is still imported.
Now, sorghum or hadhuudh, is a hardy, drought resistant crop , little grown and little consumed in Somalia ( mainly in Northern Somalia). It's declining as a crop. Yet if we switched Somali consumption habits, so that we all ate canjeela made from hadhuudh, we would create a demand for it, the farmers would produce it in abundance, and our local environmental conditions would support sorghum production.
The same could be said of cassava, cow peas, pigeon peas, finger millet,fonio, mung beans and the various other cereals, pulses and tubers that are drought resistant and have a short growing period with high yields.

We have to change what we eat, create the demand for locally produced foods, and the farmers will do the rest.
And of course, our wives have to learn or be taught how to produce mouthwatering foods from these products.

As for farming techniques in arid lands, there are many approaches to getting the best out of a bad situation. Look at the clip below, a bit long winded, but explains how permaculture was used to transform a very arid area in Jordan.

Keep on increasing your knowledge, we need more plant scientists in Somalia, given the catastrophic droughts and famines we face as a people.

An impeccable post sxb, I shall consume and apply this knowledge for the greater good of our people.

 

[BestCaseScenario]

This clip shows how the water box works. Of course one can build a much simpler box using the same principles. One could even make the box from a biodegradable material, so the that it's absorbed as nutrients by the soil, or from more permanent material for reuse. The principle is simple, trapping water through condensation or the limited rainwater available.

I think there is nothing better than keeping a positive attitude and doing something, no matter how small. A single Somali man or woman who, for example, plants even one tree , or educates one child is, a thousand times better than a thousand Somalis wasting a lifetime in coffee shops, watching the world go by.

Good technology and cheap. Thanks for the video.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Does anyone know how nuclear bombs work? I mean the idea not the details. Have you seen noticed explosions have different impacts so it's quite clear there is measurements involved in terms of substances or else there wouldn't be different scales of impact. But what mind boggles me is how can a small soda bomb destroy a letterbox. Could u work out how much substance is in the soda bomb and the measurement of the letterbox you explode and then apply maths on how much you need for say an area of a building, city, town, etc?

I noticed the substances released from explosion are quite different, some are scrapnel depending on where you exploded it, but it doesn't contaminate the area like nuclear bombs and the force is quite astounding. There clearly different ways to detonate such things like with fire lead or implosions of building and even mobile.

What I want to know with nuclear bombs is how does something that is quite small in size have such a wide impact by area? Is it the wind or air that spreads it further the substances released. What in the world is happening during this process. The impact site of a nuclear bomb doesn't look massive at all, it seems it's the after-effect or what's released that is so damaging. I find it hard to mind-boggling dropping one bomb killed 200k people.

I think there is forces and pressure involved here with substances measured and possibly heat or one of the environmental elements. That's my guess by vague looking, can anyone explain it.

 

[DR OSMAN]

I think we need a good understanding of Force. I know that for sure bro. Because if you put two objects together and u apply force like say two bricks and u want them basically on each other as hard as possible so all that energy of force is contained, your basically storing all that pressure and once released you can imagine it will be quite powerful. Another way to look at it is if you put two bricks on each other without force and when u go and break it, it won't release as much energy because it's got no force applied to it. But the second u apply as much force as possible without actually breaking it, things will change when you test this now. So I know force is important and speed if u throw a glass on the ground the rate you throw at it will determine the impact on the glass hence when its drop lightly you see big parts but when it's at fast speed it gets shattered into pieces.

I will need to think about it but anyone can comment, it will be good share, a little bit here and there adds to complete the picture

 

[DR OSMAN]

@CangeeroBear since you know about this level. Quantum level, is there any order there? because even light itself is broken down into small grain like wirey things and it has different shapes, some are stringy like while others can be grains shooting around like the shooting stars u see in the sky but it's flying around everywhere as if there is no order at all. What is happening at that level!!!! it's even electromagnetic or anything that is energy based.

 

[CangeeroBear]

@CangeeroBear since you know about this level. Quantum level, is there any order there? because even light itself is broken down into small grain like wirey things and it has different shapes, some are stringy like while others can be grains shooting around like the shooting stars u see in the sky but it's flying around everywhere as if there is no order at all. What is happening at that level!!!! it's even electromagnetic or anything that is energy based.

No one knows how quantum levels work logically.Iur notions of particles (bald etc) and waves are wrong.Rather the object under certain circumstances exhibits wave and particle behaviour.This behaviour is simply a consequence of quantum mechanics.Basically the person who discovered this found something weird about nature and formed a formula.The schrodiginers equation is the basis of classical quantum mechanics.

 

[DR OSMAN]

No one knows how quantum levels work logically.Iur notions of particles (bald etc) and waves are wrong.Rather the object under certain circumstances exhibits wave and particle behaviour.This behaviour is simply a consequence of quantum mechanics.Basically the person who discovered this found something weird about nature and formed a formula.The schrodiginers equation is the basis of classical quantum mechanics.

I am quite baffled to be quite honest how something so small can create what we see in terms of the light we see outside. I tried and attempted to look at it using the maths rules such as quantity, weight, shape, speed, distance, time. All I could see was speed, distance, and time and quantity. There seemed to be no weight and the shape seemed strange also but it did have a shape some stringy pieces and others look looking grain shape.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@CangeeroBear Have you noticed how dust accumulates on a car? or a spiderweb can hang of a tree or other objects? there is a clear demonstration that in nature things join, the only question can they co-exist? as u noticed with spiderweb it succumbs eventually on the tree or object, were talking two matters sxb that are joining here of different substances. Then it needs to be analyzed who will stick around based on environmental conditions(time, gravity, or earthly conditions) that may decide who stays and goes or as we see merge. So study your quantum problems taking into consideration the different variables between a spider web and a tree and how they join.

It's weird to explain but u take ques from nature and then study the problem in front of u. I really suggest u just walk out of that college your in and step into nature and click on survival u need to find that survival instinct and everything changes, it's no more a problem it's survival thinking.

 

[DR OSMAN]

U wonder why the prophets usually went through a mad phase in their life? sxb when u really go into the god topic and I mean seriously, it's another world and you can't come out of it sane, that's if your not bullshitting. Study them all, they wandered around for years it sends you mad sxb untill u learn to respect it and say I submit and the whole world after that becomes like 'ahhhh' easy. So people do have spiritual awakenings, but the condition that's need to be met is you went mad.

So when I talk religion im not actually really talking about god cause that will send u mad, but religion is men's understandings only and that's easy. I seriously dont go anywhere near the god topic I mean the 'real' one not the human understandings. I am talking about the real deal here, cause that will make u insane and it's not healthy for you, don't ever travel that road sxb, its the road of insanity there is no other way to explain it that's when I realized Islam is true, all u can do on that road is surrender.

 

[CangeeroBear]

@CangeeroBear Have you noticed how dust accumulates on a car? or a spiderweb can hang of a tree or other objects? there is a clear demonstration that in nature things join, the only question can they co-exist? as u noticed with spiderweb it succumbs eventually on the tree or object, were talking two matters sxb that are joining here of different substances. Then it needs to be analyzed who will stick around based on environmental conditions(time, gravity, or earthly conditions) that may decide who stays and goes or as we see merge. So study your quantum problems taking into consideration the different variables between a spider web and a tree and how they join.

It's weird to explain but u take ques from nature and then study the problem in front of u. I really suggest u just walk out of that college your in and step into nature and click on survival u need to find that survival instinct and everything changes, it's no more a problem it's survival thinking.

All physics is the study of nature, using the dust analogy fails on the quantum level.As everything is in a quantum state according to schroginers equation.We are like the intensity of waves shone onto the universe.

 

[DR OSMAN]

All physics is the study of nature, using the dust analogy fails on the quantum level.As everything is in a quantum state according to schroginers equation.We are like the intensity of waves shone onto the universe.

Not exactly true bro. Because if dust a different state can attach to a different state, how is it this isn't possible in the quantum level, it's already observable at a larger framework. It's hard to explain, but I would get ques from nature, no offense to schroginer, probably a brilliant idea and I would work of it, only untill it's not WORKING ANYMORE, I am sorry but I have to click on survival gene in us. So im not against knowledge bro, I love it too...it's just when it aint working anymore and I wont sit there and keep repeating it that's the perspective im talking about not saying lets ban knowledge, hell no, it's a short cut and it's great but it's the idiots who keep re-doing the same knowledge and there is no answer, I wont sit on that boat, I see that in my view like being in a boat and the guys are told to keep steering a direction set by the captain, till a big tropical conditions happen and their lost, the clowns who keep doing what the captain say and who are not back on course or are still following the map or knowledge set by the captain and they are still lost and keep re-doing it, they will end up dying. I will switch on survival gene and it's in all of us and I will do whatever it takes to survive, I will scan my surroundings, I will take every cue i can from nature, i will switch on sxb like never before and use everything I have in terms of logic, reasoning, trying something a bit different, looking at the animals and where they are going like if I see a seal, I know their probably heading to land, I will follow lol. I would figure out where the wind is heading and work out what that means logically and with reason and hopefully some people are with me as we jump of that failing ship and onto a small life boat. Anything at least u got a team now that's exchanging ideas that are different but it cant be any worse then the crew on the failing ship dying by the side of the manual.

I would even gather up the life boats and say I had three, I would put each one in one with a given plan that is different to the other boat. Split us up in three ways with a plan that is different, if one makes it, we rescue the other knowing where their heading based on the plan. Some people are just different, I've sat next to people who just redo things and they never work and keep redoing it through their whole lives. I am always honing my survival skills and I do also at work, it doesn't matter where it is in life. But I know when survival instict kick in, it's when something fails, it doesn't kick in when it's not failing. Something just switches on where your like 'life has no rules only people do'.

Sxb there is a time for rules and there is a time when there is no rules. I love charles darwin for that. its not about whats right or wrong anymore, it's about seeing the sun shine the next day and there no time for rehashing what's not working. Don't worry everyone is different, it's just I learned that life isn't always by the book and I've seen that approach and I never seen it operate with successful outcomes not where I've worked anyways.