Israel orders for deportation of Eritreans after violence in Tal Aviv

[Aurelian]

They even rioted in sweden whats going on

they are tigranians

 

[The alchemist]

Even within the context of Somalis, Somalis have it much better in Kenya without federalism than Ethiopia with so-called self-rule. Quite a few also identify with Kenyan identity too, which is less uncommon in Ethiopia. Moral of the story, countries should avoid making the mistakes of Ethiopia. Despite the problems around it today, I personally don't trust Ethiopia to the point of never wanting to return to a unitary state again.

The Kenyan institutional state colonial legacy undermined the Somalis on the NFD to the point where their bread and butter, pastoralists' economic activities, not only shrank considerably over the last 100 years but other pastoral groups became dominant in that trade.

Somalis were undermined in many ways. This includes yet is not limited to getting varying degrees of mobility and differing migration routes (fundamental to pastoralist subsistence), including pressures on limited access to commercialized diversification of their economic productivity with lower-level access to resources and markets.

Within the export industry of camels, the livestock herders are getting no governmental help to access water supplies to fatten their herds to manage direct supplier-based transactions between the producer and buyer, remaining mere brokers middle-men of their products received by traders with better feedlots that thicken the animals and sell them at much higher price.

We've seen anti-pastoral policy engagement, pure neglect, and marginalization of the northeast, where the only flexible valid subsistence in such an arid/semi-arid environment is pastoralism, blocking access to potential complex economic interaction and mediation between the urban economies by the government.

Acknowledging there was definite and continual regional peripheralization of the Somali region in Ethiopia, Somalis there have a relatively more inter-regional economy with the state showing increased attention to southern pastoral economic potentiality than Kenya's continued indifferent and neglectful position on the northern regions, which they've historically deemed as frontier regional borderlands. They forced those people to be under their state wing when they overwhelmingly voted against such non-existent integration but then continued to push on with the colonial disposition and even worse.

Kenyan's apathy towards the pastoral sector which could give them a highly enriched economic upswing if needfully integrated using the structural channels is the main reason the north is suffering.

You effectively compared urbanite Somalis in Kenya to regional Somalis of Ethiopia. The only valid comparative case studies should be the two regional places which renders your analysis completely wrong. Somalis in that region, the whole of pastoral north for that matter, although diversified (but I focus on my people's plight first), are not better off because the centralized power you speak of never included that part as part of the centralization.

 

[Haragwaafi]

You make valid points. While it's true that their voice would be more impactful under Eritrea and Djibouti, since they constitute a bigger share of the populations in smaller countries; from what I've heard, the self-rule aspect is what appeals to them. But I agree that not only is an Afar ethno-state not viable, most of them don't even support it either, lol. Especially the Ethiopian ones, where almost 2/3 of them live.

Regarding Ethiopia, Afar seem to have had (and still do) a different relationship with the Ethiopian state than most ethnic groups in the country. They are one of the most patriotic people, not just Muslims, but overall in Ethiopia. I don't think they've ever fought/opposed the state (read: existence of Ethiopia) like everyone else, with the exception after the deposal of Haile Selassie, as thus the exile of their Sultan.

I think it started during Menelik's rule, whom they declared loyalty towards, when the Egyptians invaded late 1800s. It happened again by WW2 with the Italians. Even though they wanted to remained their Aussa sultanate, they got incorporated into Ethiopia. After some time, the current Afar chief sultan's father completely supported them and formed a friendship with Haile Selassie. He was allowed autonomy in Eth and even recognized with one of the highest titles within the monarchy at the time. Ever since then, him and his people declared loyalty and up until his death recently, he lobbied and worked on the Eri-Danakil/Afar uniting under Ethiopia, in particular post-Eri annexation into Eth. At the time, he managed to get Eri-Afars support, but it never materialized.

I remember reading somewhere when Meles made a mockery of the Ethiopian tricolor flag, that the sultan said something along the lines of, 'even our camels salute to the flag', loooool. With that said, I think because the Afar sultan is the spiritual leader of all Afars and their deep loyalty towards Ethiopia, that's why people perceive this way.

Afars weren't in favor of their ancestral lands being split into 3 different nations but now the opposition is more in favor of being given autonomous status in the event Afwerki regime falls but idk if other oppositions groups would agree to that.

 

[Haragwaafi]

I’ve explained that most HGDEF supporters are pragmatists who support them out of Realpolitik. They tend to be the majority (and the most patriotic) so of course they are the ones organising events

It's ironic for them to support the regime that keeps their people in the dark with no development what's so ever and waste all your money that's going in the pockets of the dictator what a useless festival to celebrate for.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Eritreans in Israel are there because it’s a first world country. Eritrean society (and Ethiopian by extension) as a whole is very antisemitic. Both the ELF and EPLF sent fighters to Palestine to work with the PLO. Why do you think Beta Israel had to flee Ethiopia?

And Isu just after the liberation got malaria and was taken to Israel for treatment and just like that Eritrea became one of the 1st friendly African states to Israel as it's one of the states in the continent that doesn't recognize Palestine.

 

[dekiteshim]

And Isu just after the liberation got malaria and was taken to Israel for treatment and just like that Eritrea became one of the 1st friendly African states to Israel as it's one of the states in the continent that doesn't recognize Palestine.

View attachment 291462

Refusing to recognise Israel as a state and recognising Palestine as sovereign is an empty gesture. Especially when there are Eritrean diaspora living in Israel, consulates/embassies are a necessity. Even Arab nations have realised this and have begun normalising relation with Israel. It’s not like Eritrea has gone above and beyond for Israel (unlike Ethiopia).

Also, what is wrong with receiving life saving treatment in a country with some of the best healthcare in the world?

 

[dekiteshim]

It's ironic for them to support the regime that keeps their people in the dark with no development what's so ever and waste all your money that's going in the pockets of the dictator what a useless festival to celebrate for.

The festivals aren’t political. No one goes to them with the purpose of supporting the regime lol.

Refer to quote below

Not as simple as that. It’s rare to find people who are actually PRO-Afwerki. It’s just that HGDEF as of now is the lesser of many evils. Pretty much all opposition groups are split alongside sectarian lines. We’ve seen what happened in 91 after Siad Barre was deposed. It’s best to have a succession plan and think things through rather than chimp out and destroy our country for the sake of a new leader.

The counterprotest is more anti-opposition than it is pro-gov

 

[Haragwaafi]

Refusing to recognise Israel as a state and recognising Palestine as sovereign is an empty gesture. Especially when there are Eritrean diaspora living in Israel, consulates/embassies are a necessity. Even Arab nations have realised this and have begun normalising relation with Israel. It’s not like Eritrea has gone above and beyond for Israel (unlike Ethiopia).

Also, what is wrong with receiving life saving treatment in a country with some of the best healthcare in the world?

EPLF sold itself to the Arabs and Africans that they're anti colonial movement that was against the Zionist regime and supported Palestinian rights and was an ally to PLO same as ELF was just for Isu and his small clique to throw away that and normalize relations with the zionist entity which probably was one of the reasons for Ramadan Nur to leave the movement.

 

[GaradShabeel]

The Kenyan institutional state colonial legacy undermined the Somalis on the NFD to the point where their bread and butter, pastoralists' economic activities, not only shrank considerably over the last 100 years but other pastoral groups became dominant in that trade.

Somalis were undermined in many ways. This includes yet is not limited to getting varying degrees of mobility and differing migration routes (fundamental to pastoralist subsistence), including pressures on limited access to commercialized diversification of their economic productivity with lower-level access to resources and markets.

Within the export industry of camels, the livestock herders are getting no governmental help to access water supplies to fatten their herds to manage direct supplier-based transactions between the producer and buyer, remaining mere brokers middle-men of their products received by traders with better feedlots that thicken the animals and sell them at much higher price.

We've seen anti-pastoral policy engagement, pure neglect, and marginalization of the northeast, where the only flexible valid subsistence in such an arid/semi-arid environment is pastoralism, blocking access to potential complex economic interaction and mediation between the urban economies by the government.

Acknowledging there was definite and continual regional peripheralization of the Somali region in Ethiopia, Somalis there have a relatively more inter-regional economy with the state showing increased attention to southern pastoral economic potentiality than Kenya's continued indifferent and neglectful position on the northern regions, which they've historically deemed as frontier regional borderlands. They forced those people to be under their state wing when they overwhelmingly voted against such non-existent integration but then continued to push on with the colonial disposition and even worse.

Kenyan's apathy towards the pastoral sector which could give them a highly enriched economic upswing if needfully integrated using the structural channels is the main reason the north is suffering.

You effectively compared urbanite Somalis in Kenya to regional Somalis of Ethiopia. The only valid comparative case studies should be the two regional places which renders your analysis completely wrong. Somalis in that region, the whole of pastoral north for that matter, although diversified (but I focus on my people's plight first), are not better off because the centralized power you speak of never included that part as part of the centralization.

Well, I think that my post was a generalization rather than an in-depth analysis of Somalis in Kenya v. Ethiopia. I thought that it was obvious too that I did not dive into the economical factors relating to the countries either, nor spoke of the historical context of Somalis in both countries dating back 100 years. But rather the political inclusivity and the relations between our people and Addis/Nairobi in recent times.

While Somalis have been given more authority to manage the economic affairs of our region and thus have more say in that example you've given with regards to the pastoral community that make up a substantial size of the poplation in NFD/DDS; the negligence by the Ethiopian state for the better part of the last 50 years, albeit improved in recent years, is worse than that of Kenya imo.

Though, you're right that I should've limited my contrasts exclusively to 'NFD' vis a vis DDS, since a sizable residents of Somalis live in urban areas outside of NFD which may depict another differing frame that doesn't the reflect the Somalis in their native areas. However, I stand by the fact that Somalis of Kenya, whether residing in NFD or outside have better ability of making their voice heard than those of Ethiopia even when you factor the flaws. Hence, my earlier remarks about federalism, which practically is more or less an extended arm of the sitting administration in Arat Kilo.

 

[GaradShabeel]

Afars weren't in favor of their ancestral lands being split into 3 different nations but now the opposition is more in favor of being given autonomous status in the event Afwerki regime falls but idk if other oppositions groups would agree to that.

Yeah, I spoke mainly of the Ethiopian Afars and mentioned that they didn't want the Sultanate of Aussa to cease to exist. They had conflicts with the Ethiopian state when it was incorporated into the country, as their land were being split into 4 Ethiopian regions, instead of one sultanate under Ethiopia that the sultan wanted.

I'm not up to date with the Eritrean Afar oppositions, but their ancestral land being split occurred in 1800s by the Italians respective French for Eritrea and Djibouti and much later for the Ethiopian Afars.

 

[The alchemist]

Well, I think that my post was a generalization rather than an in-depth analysis of Somalis in Kenya v. Ethiopia. I thought that it was obvious too that I did not dive into the economical factors relating to the countries either, nor spoke of the historical context of Somalis in both countries dating back 100 years. But rather the political inclusivity and the relations between our people and Addis/Nairobi in recent times.

While Somalis have been given more authority to manage the economic affairs of our region and thus have more say in that example you've given with regards to the pastoral community that make up a substantial size of the poplation in NFD/DDS; the negligence by the Ethiopian state for the better part of the last 50 years, albeit improved in recent years, is worse than that of Kenya imo.

Though, you're right that I should've limited my contrasts exclusively to 'NFD' vis a vis DDS, since a sizable residents of Somalis live in urban areas outside of NFD which may depict another differing frame that doesn't the reflect the Somalis in their native areas. However, I stand by the fact that Somalis of Kenya, whether residing in NFD or outside have better ability of making their voice heard than those of Ethiopia even when you factor the flaws. Hence, my earlier remarks about federalism, which practically is more or less an extended arm of the sitting administration in Arat Kilo.

It's highly important to distinguish the urbanite Somalis which is not the same as the Somalis who live in their historical lands. The Somali-occupied places have to this day no participating help from the Kenyan government, and that is mutually exclusive from the economic activities in the urban cities among the Somali demographic. Those are two different clusters and it is illogical to treat them the same because of the current and historical realities. When put to the test, Kenya has an anti-pastoralist system adopted since colonial times. The colonialists treated the north as a separate block from the rest and never handled anything worth of investment, infrastructure, institutions, etc.

The Somalis in the city agglomerations are doing way better but their success does not represent the people in the NFD and their realities. Those people are fueling the Kenyan machine. I think they have a responsibility they are not fulfilling -- namely becoming the means for the NFD to economically benefit into a better reality. Kenya would very much like those two groups not to cooperate because it would give Somalis too much power and legitimacy.

I partially agree with the Ethiopian part and have covered that topic before. It's just that Kenya being better is not true at all on the strict basis of where Somalis live in their traditional lands and how that is approached. Kenya and Ethiopia are worthless countries in that respect for Somalis in those regions. Never do anything for them but place constrictions and neglect after falsely claiming the lands. The urbanite Somali is appreciated because their economic value expands the GDP of the Kenyan central state within the economic dimensions benefited by non-Somalis.

The reason I say Kenya is arguably worse today is that it fronts as a centralized unitary state. Ethiopia is a clustered country where region to region operates in its own respect and there are not many expectations to receive anything meaningful from the government as the bar is set too low. Somalis there only ask not to get fucked with, a promise always in violation.

For the last sentence of the last paragraph is the reason a non-federalist framework is not in favor of any Somali realization in Ethiopia. All you would have is homogenizing our lands for every non-Somali Ethiopian benefit while removing the power of Somalis in those regions. Giving more power to the government in administrative respect is a strange proposition when they are inconsistent and do massive power-hungry and hateful oversight enacting consistent damage to us. And it is too flimsy for anything long-term.

With the federalist framework, there is one undeniable benefit, the people have an ethnic consciousness that can re-inspire internal self-interested developments because there is an ethnic-coherency not tainted or demographically cleaved by state policies. Homogenizing and phasing our region out to become like the rest of Ethiopia will destroy that inherent benefit and we will become like Oromos who are all over the place. Remember, Ethiopia has time and time again placed demographic policies to attack groups. It is unwise to make yourself susceptible to that.

All we have come to the conclusion of in this discussion is that sedentary farming-based groups and their power projections never benefit us, furthermore, we need to grab power and expand our leverage base in our own biased vernacular, even project that unto them, otherwise there will never have any meaningful change.

My point up to this point was to highlight the neglect and spiteful impartiality of the two countries, but that does not mean that it is beneficial for us today to become fully assimilated. Somalis in the north of Kenya should make the economic benefit restricted to the north while using the central systems to represent that development. Why? The future is highly unpredictable and you need a strong distinguisher with survivalist cohort affinity to take advantage of that uncertainty. If you let yourself become dissolved into the collective melting pot you will have nothing while becoming a victim of circumstance with zero control.

 

[The alchemist]

Refusing to recognise Israel as a state and recognising Palestine as sovereign is an empty gesture. Especially when there are Eritrean diaspora living in Israel, consulates/embassies are a necessity. Even Arab nations have realised this and have begun normalising relation with Israel. It’s not like Eritrea has gone above and beyond for Israel (unlike Ethiopia).

Also, what is wrong with receiving life saving treatment in a country with some of the best healthcare in the world?

It is not an empty gesture. Israel does not think that neither do the people against its operations. I know you Christinan Habash niggas pretend to play these two sides whistling tones on this issue while always more than not supporting the Israeli state, shamelessly pretending to claim the problems are symmetrical between Israel and Palestine and this is just another version of that. Just say you support it and move on. It's pathetic signaling sending a fake smokescreen away from weasel tendencies. There is no sense of inaction; if you don't condemn Israel, then you are pro-status quo, consequently making you pro-Israel because it is the dominant ruling body doing their apartheid-level injustice. Stop the ear-pissing.

 

[dekiteshim]

It is not an empty gesture. Israel does not think that neither do the people against its operations. I know you Christinan Habash niggas pretend to play these two sides whistling tones on this issue while always more than not supporting the Israeli state, shamelessly pretending to claim the problems are symmetrical between Israel and Palestine and this is just another version of that. Just say you support it and move on. It's pathetic signaling sending a fake smokescreen away from weasel tendencies. There is no sense of inaction; if you don't condemn Israel, then you are pro-status quo, consequently making you pro-Israel because it is the dominant ruling body doing their apartheid-level injustice. Stop the ear-pissing.

Where have I claimed that the problems are symmetrical or even voiced sympathies for Israel? What about Israel would even appeal to Eri Christians when there are Palestinian Christians?

You’ve transposed govt policy enacted by a regime that clearly doesn’t operate on the consensus of the populace onto the Eritrean people under the guise of alleged yahud sympathies because we are Christian

 

[dekiteshim]

Eri policy on Israel is probably to do with the fact that Yasser Arafat’s PLO flipped support for Eritrea over to Derg Era Ethiopia

 

[GaradShabeel]

It's highly important to distinguish the urbanite Somalis which is not the same as the Somalis who live in their historical lands. The Somali-occupied places have to this day no participating help from the Kenyan government, and that is mutually exclusive from the economic activities in the urban cities among the Somali demographic. Those are two different clusters and it is illogical to treat them the same because of the current and historical realities. When put to the test, Kenya has an anti-pastoralist system adopted since colonial times. The colonialists treated the north as a separate block from the rest and never handled anything worth of investment, infrastructure, institutions, etc.

The Somalis in the city agglomerations are doing way better but their success does not represent the people in the NFD and their realities. Those people are fueling the Kenyan machine. I think they have a responsibility they are not fulfilling -- namely becoming the means for the NFD to economically benefit into a better reality. Kenya would very much like those two groups not to cooperate because it would give Somalis too much power and legitimacy.

I partially agree with the Ethiopian part and have covered that topic before. It's just that Kenya being better is not true at all on the strict basis of where Somalis live in their traditional lands and how that is approached. Kenya and Ethiopia are worthless countries in that respect for Somalis in those regions. Never do anything for them but place constrictions and neglect after falsely claiming the lands. The urbanite Somali is appreciated because their economic value expands the GDP of the Kenyan central state within the economic dimensions benefited by non-Somalis.

The reason I say Kenya is arguably worse today is that it fronts as a centralized unitary state. Ethiopia is a clustered country where region to region operates in its own respect and there are not many expectations to receive anything meaningful from the government as the bar is set too low. Somalis there only ask not to get fucked with, a promise always in violation.

For the last sentence of the last paragraph is the reason a non-federalist framework is not in favor of any Somali realization in Ethiopia. All you would have is homogenizing our lands for every non-Somali Ethiopian benefit while removing the power of Somalis in those regions. Giving more power to the government in administrative respect is a strange proposition when they are inconsistent and do massive power-hungry and hateful oversight enacting consistent damage to us. And it is too flimsy for anything long-term.

With the federalist framework, there is one undeniable benefit, the people have an ethnic consciousness that can re-inspire internal self-interested developments because there is an ethnic-coherency not tainted or demographically cleaved by state policies. Homogenizing and phasing our region out to become like the rest of Ethiopia will destroy that inherent benefit and we will become like Oromos who are all over the place. Remember, Ethiopia has time and time again placed demographic policies to attack groups. It is unwise to make yourself susceptible to that.

All we have come to the conclusion of in this discussion is that sedentary farming-based groups and their power projections never benefit us, furthermore, we need to grab power and expand our leverage base in our own biased vernacular, even project that unto them, otherwise there will never have any meaningful change.

My point up to this point was to highlight the neglect and spiteful impartiality of the two countries, but that does not mean that it is beneficial for us today to become fully assimilated. Somalis in the north of Kenya should make the economic benefit restricted to the north while using the central systems to represent that development. Why? The future is highly unpredictable and you need a strong distinguisher with survivalist cohort affinity to take advantage of that uncertainty. If you let yourself become dissolved into the collective melting pot you will have nothing while becoming a victim of circumstance with zero control.

Thanks for your deep insights sxb. I've to be honest with you, even though I'm kind of aware of the issues facing pastoralists/non-urban Somalis in Kenya, I didn't know that it was as severe as you described it and how far back these systematic issues has been persistent. Unfortunately, given the relative stability that Kenya has in our region and in particular compared to other Somali inhabited territories, these matters seem to be easily overlooked and/or ignored.

 

[Dibleyy]

Yahuds especially zionists give me the most evil energy and when they look at you it’s so sinister, out of all the ethnicities I hate them the most walahi

@JudgeJoeGorilla I see you disliked my comment, are you by any chance a Somali Zionist don’t care about Islam or masjid Al aqsa huh?

If that’s the case please do us all a favour and leave somalinimo dirty kikes are the biggest bottom of the barrel disgusting trash and we don’t need coon trash like you polluting our culture

 

[Burqad]

Eri policy on Israel is probably to do with the fact that Yasser Arafat’s PLO flipped support for Eritrea over to Derg Era Ethiopia

That was also one of the reasons why Somalia handed over the airplane hijackers to Germany.

 

[Keo]

Don't care about some raw meat eaters. As long as the media don't try to label them as Somali let them do whatever they want to each other.

 

[dekiteshim]

Don't care about some raw meat eaters. As long as the media don't try to label them as Somali let them do whatever they want to each other.

Raw meat is southern Ethiopian cuisine. It’s not eaten in Eritrea

 

[JudgeJoeGorilla]

@JudgeJoeGorilla I see you disliked my comment, are you by any chance a Somali Zionist don’t care about Islam or masjid Al aqsa huh?

If that’s the case please do us all a favour and leave somalinimo dirty kikes are the biggest bottom of the barrel disgusting trash and we don’t need coon trash like you polluting our culture

I'm an African American, but I'm sure your religion doesn't teach you to hate others.