Is The Sharia Barbaric? #Stoning #Theft #Murder #Apostasy || The Hot Seat by AMAU

[Poets]

It is very interesting to see the notion that there is not one "Sharia" or one true law. If every re-interpretation is valid, then what of the faith is left?

A short reminder: people that ascribed themselves to Islam said that Allah is everywhere, even in the bathroom (wal ciyaadhu billah)! They even have a verse!

وَهُوَ الَّذِي فِي السَّمَاء إِلَهٌ وَفِي الْأَرْضِ إِلَهٌ وَهُوَ الْحَكِيمُ الْعَلِيمُ
And it is He [i.e., Allah] who is [the only] deity in the heaven, and on the earth [the only] deity. And He is the Wise, the Knowing.

For someone that believes that the Revelation can be reinterpreted, and that the Salafs interpretation is of no major value, there is no ground to refute this opinion. Even if not agreeing with it, it has to be viewed as a valid difference of opinion. Otherwise, on what basis is it not valid? There is no measuring stock in the absence of an authoritorian guidance of the first generation!

You cannot have your cake and eat it. Either it is a valid opinion islamically to believe Allah is in the...or Sharia is the one of the Prophets time and is not changable.

 

[4head]

....
View attachment 188069

Young Arabs are Changing their Beliefs and Perceptions: New Survey – Arab Barometer

www.arabbarometer.org

45.7% of tunisian youth describe themselves as irreligious

Many of my gaalo (educated) are from Morocco,

no wonder they are one of the least non muslims!

 

[Kool-Aid]

....
View attachment 188069

Young Arabs are Changing their Beliefs and Perceptions: New Survey – Arab Barometer

www.arabbarometer.org

45.7% of tunisian youth describe themselves as irreligious

That data is not strong enough to make me believe that Islam in majority Muslim countries will disappear soon.

from the article:
“It is possible that some youth will return to religion as they get older and have families, which is something that has been seen in other countries. Even if they don’t, more than four in five youth across the region remain religious, meaning that even if the trend of turning away from religion continues, it’s likely that MENA will be predominately religious for decades. It is also possible that the increase in youth saying they are not religious is temporary and will reverse itself in the years ahead. It is too soon to know, but we will continue to track this phenomenon in future surveys, which will provide a clearer picture of the degree to which a deeper social shift may be taking place.”

 

[Omar del Sur]

The laws of Allah have been reinterpreted many times during the 1400 years of Islam. Or are you saying that only the salafs interpretation of sharia is right and that everyone else who interpreted differently was wrong and is a kafir and is therefore in hell.

What are you even talking about. If we go back to the earliest scholars, you think they were Westernized secularists?

Sharia isn't made up by the Salafis. If you go back and read the old books of fiqh, they were pretty much the same.

In fact, even Salafiyyah isn't something new. The only thing that is sort of new is the name. The concept had been around for at least over a thousand years. Imam Barbaharee wrote about it in Sharh As-Sunnah over a thousand years ago.

And the idea that not believing in the sharia is apostasy is not some new made up idea- it was according to Umar Ibn Al-Khattab and is backed by the Quran. According to your logic, Umar Ibn Al-Khattab was a Salafi.

You can't just take old concepts in the dīn, accepted by the consensus of the scholars and then label them as "Salafi" and remove them from the dīn. It's like saying the idea that we have to pray salaat five times a day is "Salafi" and therefore we don't have to pray five times a day.

 

[ReerVanCadde]

It is very interesting to see the notion that there is not one "Sharia" or one true law. If every re-interpretation is valid, then what of the faith is left?

A short reminder: people that ascribed themselves to Islam said that Allah is everywhere, even in the bathroom (wal ciyaadhu billah)! They even have a verse!

وَهُوَ الَّذِي فِي السَّمَاء إِلَهٌ وَفِي الْأَرْضِ إِلَهٌ وَهُوَ الْحَكِيمُ الْعَلِيمُ
And it is He [i.e., Allah] who is [the only] deity in the heaven, and on the earth [the only] deity. And He is the Wise, the Knowing.

For someone that believes that the Revelation can be reinterpreted, and that the Salafs interpretation is of no major value, there is no ground to refute this opinion. Even if not agreeing with it, it has to be viewed as a valid difference of opinion. Otherwise, on what basis is it not valid? There is no measuring stock in the absence of an authoritorian guidance of the first generation!

You cannot have your cake and eat it. Either it is a valid opinion islamically to believe Allah is in the...or Sharia is the one of the Prophets time and is not changable.

Interesting, I fully believe in the opinion that there's one true shariah. Islam is perfect but people aren't.
Islam says there's no racism, however today we see that Arabs tend to be the most racist of people.
I'll point out another hadith Where a man came to the prophet and asked him, if I pray, fast, pay zakah, go to hajj will I go to paradise.The prophet said yes.
My point being how are we discussing shariah law if some of these guys barely wake up for fair prayer? Priorities

 

[Abba Sadacha]

Oh boy... Then I hope for your sake you don't look into the history of slavery within the arab/islamic viewpoint. It's funny because I can already hear your response, the apologist for slavery within this viewpoint will spout the same rhetorics that the old white slave masters will say about slavery in the west. " oh we treat our slaves better and like people". Go learn about the history of Islam FFS so many on here have not a clue about the history of Islam but hey this is what happens when all you are taught is the sickness of the salaf way.

Ma’rur ibn Suwaid reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

إِخْوَانُكُمْ وَخَوَلُكُمْ جَعَلَهُمْ اللَّهُ تَحْتَ أَيْدِيكُمْ فَمَنْ كَانَ أَخُوهُ تَحْتَ يَدَيْهِ فَلْيُطْعِمْهُ مِمَّا يَأْكُلُ وَلْيُلْبِسْهُ مِمَّا يَلْبَسُ وَلَا تُكَلِّفُوهُمْ مَا يَغْلِبُهُمْ فَإِنْ كَلَّفْتُمُوهُمْ فَأَعِينُوهُمْ عَلَيْهِ

Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him should feed him with the same food he eats and clothe him with the same clothes he wears, and do not burden him beyond his capacity, and if you burden him then help him.

Source: Sahih Muslim 1661, Grade: Sahih


Jabir ibn Abdullah reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, enjoined good treatment of slaves and he would say:

أَطْعِمُوهُمْ مِمَّا تَأْكُلُونَ وَأَلْبِسُوهُمْ مِنْ لَبُوسِكُمْ وَلاَ تُعَذِّبُوا خَلْقَ اللهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ​

Feed them from the same food you eat and clothe them from the same clothes you wear, and do not torture the creation of Allah the Exalted.
Source: Al-Adab Al-Mufrad 188, Grade: Sahih

WELL, it's true. ''Slaves'' were given the same food [or commanded to] that the owners ate, [and they were encouraged to free them], not fed the worst food ever [pigs], nor were the kids born as slaves, keep in mind that, you have to be realistic and realize you cannot change entrenched institutions over-night. So the Prophet had to be gradual. Look @ Bilal, a former slave, for example, who was superior in faith when compared to many, many Arabs, and guaranteed a mansion in paradise, while many arabs, even the prophet's parents, were/are doomed.

Al-Nawawi on the virtue of freeing slaves

www.abuaminaelias.com

What does Islam teach about slavery?

www.abuaminaelias.com

 

[Omar del Sur]

How have I twisted the Qur'an?
I said there's no compulsion in religion. Even back in sahabah's time Jews followed their own religion, had their owns judges etc, same with Christians.

They were allowed to practice their religion but the state was not secular.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Interesting, I fully believe in the opinion that there's one true shariah. Islam is perfect but people aren't.
Islam says there's no racism, however today we see that Arabs tend to be the most racist of people.
I'll point out another hadith Where a man came to the prophet and asked him, if I pray, fast, pay zakah, go to hajj will I go to paradise.The prophet said yes.
My point being how are we discussing shariah law if some of these guys barely wake up for fair prayer? Priorities

I'm pretty sure throughout history people have overslept and missed fajr. Yet sharia is still part of Islam. Sharia doesn't stop being a part of the dīn because someone somewhere missed Fajr.

I don't know of any evidence from Quran or Sunnah or of anything from any scholar which says sharia no longer applies if there are people missing Fajr. We have no right to just make stuff up.

 

[Sheikh Google]

It is very interesting to see the notion that there is not one "Sharia" or one true law. If every re-interpretation is valid, then what of the faith is left?

A short reminder: people that ascribed themselves to Islam said that Allah is everywhere, even in the bathroom (wal ciyaadhu billah)! They even have a verse!

وَهُوَ الَّذِي فِي السَّمَاء إِلَهٌ وَفِي الْأَرْضِ إِلَهٌ وَهُوَ الْحَكِيمُ الْعَلِيمُ
And it is He [i.e., Allah] who is [the only] deity in the heaven, and on the earth [the only] deity. And He is the Wise, the Knowing.

For someone that believes that the Revelation can be reinterpreted, and that the Salafs interpretation is of no major value, there is no ground to refute this opinion. Even if not agreeing with it, it has to be viewed as a valid difference of opinion. Otherwise, on what basis is it not valid? There is no measuring stock in the absence of an authoritorian guidance of the first generation!

You cannot have your cake and eat it. Either it is a valid opinion islamically to believe Allah is in the...or Sharia is the one of the Prophets time and is not changable.

Once again quoting scripture and saying nothing can be reinterpreted is adding nothing to the discussion. Or perhaps if you bothered to read the discussion you would see that major salafi scholars were wrong on many matter e.g Geocentric view of the earth.

"There is no measuring stock in the absence of an authoritorian guidance of the first generation!"

Again look at the history of Islam, these very same sahaba fought between themselves (ridda wars etc.. in before someone says it was self-defense when it was about paying taxes) and there were issues regarding the canonical readings between the tribes and Uthman ordering the burning of the Quran. Heck, Uthman, and ibn masud disagree heavily on the quranic interpretations and nearly came to blows as reported sahih by al-Tirmidhi. At the end of the day the 1400 years of Islam have had many different sharia implementations and simply saying one is the right way spits in the face of history.

 

[Sheikh Google]

Ma’rur ibn Suwaid reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

إِخْوَانُكُمْ وَخَوَلُكُمْ جَعَلَهُمْ اللَّهُ تَحْتَ أَيْدِيكُمْ فَمَنْ كَانَ أَخُوهُ تَحْتَ يَدَيْهِ فَلْيُطْعِمْهُ مِمَّا يَأْكُلُ وَلْيُلْبِسْهُ مِمَّا يَلْبَسُ وَلَا تُكَلِّفُوهُمْ مَا يَغْلِبُهُمْ فَإِنْ كَلَّفْتُمُوهُمْ فَأَعِينُوهُمْ عَلَيْهِ

Your slaves are your brothers. Allah has placed them in your hand, and he who has his brother under him should feed him with the same food he eats and clothe him with the same clothes he wears, and do not burden him beyond his capacity, and if you burden him then help him.

Source: Sahih Muslim 1661, Grade: Sahih


Jabir ibn Abdullah reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, enjoined good treatment of slaves and he would say:




WELL, it's true. ''Slaves'' were given the same food [or commanded to] that the owners ate, [and they were encouraged to free them], not fed the worst food ever [pigs], nor were the kids born as slaves, keep in mind that, you have to be realistic and realize you cannot change entrenched institutions over-night. So the Prophet had to be gradual. Look @ Bilal, a former slave, for example, who was superior in faith when compared to many, many Arabs, and guaranteed a mansion in paradise, while many arabs, even the prophet's parents, were/are doomed.

Al-Nawawi on the virtue of freeing slaves

www.abuaminaelias.com

What does Islam teach about slavery?

www.abuaminaelias.com

The slavery topic will perhaps require its own thread as I can also point to many hadith and classical tafsirs pointing out how to interact with your slave, what to do and how to punish them. Along with the whole mess that is sexual slavery etc. Lmao, I could quote a passage from well-known Slave owners in the south who said the same thing about how they treated their slaves. You have literally done exactly what I warned you would do. Again no critical thinking just quoting a passage you got from the internet. Its ok its different because that one was owned by a gaal slave master...

Edit: I see you said it takes years to change entrenched institutions overnight yet Slavery ended in the Islamic/arab world only as recently as the 70s and that was only by UN pressure.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Once again quoting scripture and saying nothing can be reinterpreted is adding nothing to the discussion. Or perhaps if you bothered to read the discussion you would see that major salafi scholars were wrong on many matter e.g Geocentric view of the earth.

"There is no measuring stock in the absence of an authoritorian guidance of the first generation!"

Again look at the history of Islam, these very same sahaba fought between themselves (ridda wars etc.. in before someone says it was self-defense when it was about paying taxes) and there were issues regarding the canonical readings between the tribes and Uthman ordering the burning of the Quran. Heck, Uthman, and ibn masud disagree heavily on the quranic interpretations and nearly came to blows as reported sahih by al-Tirmidhi. At the end of the day the 1400 years of Islam have had many different sharia implementations and simply saying one is the right way spits in the face of history.

So now you talk down on the sahaaba? I hope you're not cursing Aisha or cutting yourself on the head.

Also what happened between the sahaba was due to a disagreement but they didn't really disagree when it comes to sharia. There was no Westernized secularist faction of the sahaaba. And their differences of opinion in regards to the sharia were over some of the details but they agreed on most of it in general and in the fundamentals. They also did not vary in aqeedah. There were minor points where they varied in fiqh but they overwhelming agreed with each other. What happened between them was more about political disagreement.

 

[Omar del Sur]

The slavery topic will perhaps require its own thread as I can also point to many hadith and classical tafsirs pointing out how to interact with your slave, what to do and how to punish them. Along with the whole mess that is sexual slavery etc. Lmao, I could quote a passage from well-known Slave owners in the south who said the same thing about how they treated their slaves. You have literally done exactly what I warned you would do. Again no critical thinking just quoting a passage you got from the internet. Its ok its different because that one was owned by a gaal slave master...

you see, you are a blatantly a kaffir. just be honest that you are a standard issue ex-muslim.

 

[Sheikh Google]

you see, you are a blatantly a kaffir. just be honest that you are a standard issue ex-muslim.

Let me translate that for you this is what I read. "I AM INSECURE AND CANNOT ENGAGE IN A DISCUSSION THEREFORE I MUST PUT A TAKFIR ON A FELLOW MUSLIM".

 

[Omar del Sur]

Once again quoting scripture and saying nothing can be reinterpreted is adding nothing to the discussion. Or perhaps if you bothered to read the discussion you would see that major salafi scholars were wrong on many matter e.g Geocentric view of the earth.

"There is no measuring stock in the absence of an authoritorian guidance of the first generation!"

Again look at the history of Islam, these very same sahaba fought between themselves (ridda wars etc.. in before someone says it was self-defense when it was about paying taxes) and there were issues regarding the canonical readings between the tribes and Uthman ordering the burning of the Quran. Heck, Uthman, and ibn masud disagree heavily on the quranic interpretations and nearly came to blows as reported sahih by al-Tirmidhi. At the end of the day the 1400 years of Islam have had many different sharia implementations and simply saying one is the right way spits in the face of history.

Also, geocentrism is the correct view. The idea that the earth revolves around the sun is false. The sun revolves around the earth.

That being said, Sheikh Albaani (raheemAllah) was of the opinion that the sun does not revolve around the earth.

Either way, even if the sun revolved around the earth, that wouldn't really make a difference in terms of the sharia.

 

[Sheikh Google]

So now you talk down on the sahaaba? I hope you're not cursing Aisha or cutting yourself on the head.

Also what happened between the sahaba was due to a disagreement but they didn't really disagree when it comes to sharia. There was no Westernized secularist faction of the sahaaba. And their differences of opinion in regards to the sharia were over some of the details but they agreed on most of it in general and in the fundamentals. They also did not vary in aqeedah. There were minor points where they varied in fiqh but they overwhelming agreed with each other. What happened between them was more about political disagreement.

Do I take your opinion or the objective view of those who have done quranic studies at prestigious university and written books upon books about the history of Islam. I gotta hand it to you salafs, my way or the high way.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Let me translate that for you this is what I read. "I AM INSECURE AND CANNOT ENGAGE IN A DISCUSSION THEREFORE I MUST PUT A TAKFIR ON A FELLOW MUSLIM".

You can use all-caps all you like but you're still a kaffir.

Mathematically speaking, x = x.

A kaffir equals a kaffir. You are a garden variety ex-Muslim. Just be honest about it, you munafiq.

 

[Omar del Sur]

It's another opinion. Who are you tell them they are wrong? Once you learn about the history of Islam you will see that for 1400 years it was never just one way. they still believe in the oneness of god in Allah? Heck if you pour over classical tafsirs e.g tafsir of al-Tabari to name one, they legit had a geocentric worldview and thought the world was flat?!!! Are you going to believe what's written and still think the world is flat? come on don't insult your own intelligence.

That is not even true- the classical scholars believed the earth is round. It is a myth that Islam believes the earth is flat.

 

[Sheikh Google]

Also, geocentrism is the correct view. The idea that the earth revolves around the sun is false. The sun revolves around the earth.

That being said, Sheikh Albaani (raheemAllah) was of the opinion that the sun does not revolve around the earth.

Either way, even if the sun revolved around the earth, that wouldn't really make a difference in terms of the sharia.

Wallahi I stopped eating my late dinner to reply back to you but I did not realize I was talking to a genuine person with special needs. Dont worry I have a playlist on youtube that teaches basic physics that is catered to young kids but everyone has to start somewhere right? You are proof that salafism is a cancer and that you have to move the goalposts every time to make things fit. I am done with you loool.

 

[Omar del Sur]

You should read
الفتاوى الكبرى لابن تيمية

you'll be amazed how he calls everyone kaffir and ends almost every sentence with

يستتاب والا يقتل

The book scares the sh*** out of me.

Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah was a great scholar. If he called anyone a kaffir who shouldn't have been called a kaffir, come and show the evidence.

 

[Ismail99]

You can use all-caps all you like but you're still a kaffir.

Mathematically speaking, x = x.

A kaffir equals a kaffir. You are a garden variety ex-Muslim. Just be honest about it, you munafiq.

why is she/he claiming still Islam when she/he disagrees with it