Is Somalia a Salafi country?

[World]

Ibn Uthaymeen:

نقول مثلاً وجه الله ولم نقل وجه وأطلقنا فوجه الله يكون لائقا لذاته أو لائقا بذاته ، كما لو قلت وجه الفرس ووجه القط الهر هل تفهم منقولك وجه الفرس أنه مثل وجه الهر ؟ أبداً
We say for example "face of Allah" and we do not just say "face" in general [terms], because the face of Allah is befitting to His essence or befitting His essence.

Just like when you say "face of a horse" and "face of a cat": Do you understand from your statement "face of a horse" that it is like (mithl) the "face of a cat"? Never...

Ibn Uthayman is saying just like the face of a horse and the face of a cat are not completely like each other, but similar to each other we should implement this on Allah. Astaghfirullah, he is mentioning the body parts of animals while speaking regarding the divine attributes.

Ibn Uthaymeen says:
نؤمن بأن لله وجها حقيقيا ولكن لو سئلنا عن كيفيته أمستطيل هو أو مستدير أم مربع أو مدور أو ما أشبه ذلك أيشنقول... نقول الله أعلم



We believe that God has a real face. But if we were to be asked regarding its modality [like] whether it's rectangular or circular or square-shaped or round or what is similar to this, how do we respond [then] ?... We respond [by saying] ʼGod knows bestʼ...

Rectangular or circular? Subhanallah. So Allah’s face is with a 3-dimensional form so it maybe round or rectangular for example? This is the creed of Salafis whilst Atharis are far removed from this deviant sect.

Compare this with what Atharis believe, whilst Salafis say we don’t know if Allah’s face is rectangular or square (astaghfirulah) and that just like a horse’s face and cat’s face is similar, so is Allah’s face is similar to it’s creation (astaghfirulah), Atharis believed that such beliefs were kufr let alone part of their creed. They refuted tashbih:

Imam Tahawi said, “Imaginations cannot attain Him; comprehensions cannot perceive Him. Creatures do not bear any similarity (tashbih) to Him.” (Aqida Tahawi)



Ishaq ibn Ibrahim ar-Raahawaih said: tashbih is if it is said: “Hand like my hand, or similar to my hand”, or it is said: “Hearing like my Hearing, or similar to my hearing”, then this is tashbih. But if what is being said is what Allah has said: Hand, Hearing, Seeing and it is not asked how, nor is it said: “Like my hearing, or similar to my hearing” – then it is not tashbih. Allah, the Most Blessed, Most High, said in His Book: [ b]There is none like unto Him, and He is the all-Hearing, the all-Seeing (42:11). (Sunan al Tirmidhi)



Nuaym b Hammad, the Shaykh of Al Bukhari, may Allah have mercy upon them said, “Whoever draws a resemblance between Allah and His creation has disbelieved, and whosoever denies what Allah has described Himself with has also disbelieved – there is no resemblance (tashbih) or likeness (tamthil) in that with which Allah or His Messenger have described Him.” [Sharh Risala al Tadmuriyya]

Compare this with what Ibn Uthaymeen said:
Ibn Uthaymeen said, “To negate Tashbih (resemblance) in its entirety is not correct, because there are no two things among entities or attributes, except that they share something together between them. This commonality is a type of resemblance. If you, therefore, negate Tashbih absolutely, you are (by that) negating everything wherein there is a form of resemblance between the Creator and the creature. For example, existence: Both the Creator and the creature primarily share this together.” (Ibn Uthaymeen -Sharh Aqida Wasatiyyah Vol 1 pg 144)

“Ibn Wahb says, I heard Malik say, “Whoever recites “The Hand of Allah” (3:73)(5:64)(48:10)(57:29) and indicates his hand or recites “The eye of Allah” (20:39)(11:37)(23:27)(52:48)(54:14) and indicates that organ of his: let it be cut off to disciple him over Divine Sacredness and Transcendence above what he has compared Him to, and above his own comparison to Him. Both his life and the limb he compared to Allah are cut off.” (Ibn al Arabi al Maliki, Ahkam al Quran)

Imam Ahmad said, “Whoever moves his hand while reciting the verse, “I created with both My Hands” (38:75) or gestures with his fingers when narrating the hadith, “The heart of the believer is between two fingers of the Merciful,” cut their hands or fingers off!” (Al Shahrastani, Al Milal Wal Nihal)

 

[Angelina]

Stop playing like your dumb, your not. You were the one who brought up Atharis. She never associated the two, you twisted her words as if she said that Atharis were the same as Salafis.



View attachment 272034

I mentioned Salafis in that first point to counteract the dumb claim that only Salafis have extremism tendencies, when you have the Taliban who are literally Ashari/maturidi and I even mentioned Athari separate to Salafis.

View attachment 272035

View attachment 272036

 

[Angelina]

Compare this with what Atharis believe, whilst Salafis say we don’t know if Allah’s face is rectangular or square (astaghfirulah) and that just like a horse’s face and cat’s face is similar, so is Allah’s face is similar to it’s creation (astaghfirulah), Atharis believed that such beliefs were kufr let alone part of their creed. They refuted tashbih:

Imam Tahawi said, “Imaginations cannot attain Him; comprehensions cannot perceive Him. Creatures do not bear any similarity (tashbih) to Him.” (Aqida Tahawi)



Ishaq ibn Ibrahim ar-Raahawaih said: tashbih is if it is said: “Hand like my hand, or similar to my hand”, or it is said: “Hearing like my Hearing, or similar to my hearing”, then this is tashbih. But if what is being said is what Allah has said: Hand, Hearing, Seeing and it is not asked how, nor is it said: “Like my hearing, or similar to my hearing” – then it is not tashbih. Allah, the Most Blessed, Most High, said in His Book: [ b]There is none like unto Him, and He is the all-Hearing, the all-Seeing (42:11). (Sunan al Tirmidhi)



Nuaym b Hammad, the Shaykh of Al Bukhari, may Allah have mercy upon them said, “Whoever draws a resemblance between Allah and His creation has disbelieved, and whosoever denies what Allah has described Himself with has also disbelieved – there is no resemblance (tashbih) or likeness (tamthil) in that with which Allah or His Messenger have described Him.” [Sharh Risala al Tadmuriyya]

“Ibn Wahb says, I heard Malik say, “Whoever recites “The Hand of Allah” (3:73)(5:64)(48:10)(57:29) and indicates his hand or recites “The eye of Allah” (20:39)(11:37)(23:27)(52:48)(54:14) and indicates that organ of his: let it be cut off to disciple him over Divine Sacredness and Transcendence above what he has compared Him to, and above his own comparison to Him. Both his life and the limb he compared to Allah are cut off.” (Ibn al Arabi al Maliki, Ahkam al Quran)

Imam Ahmad said, “Whoever moves his hand while reciting the verse, “I created with both My Hands” (38:75) or gestures with his fingers when narrating the hadith, “The heart of the believer is between two fingers of the Merciful,” cut their hands or fingers off!” (Al Shahrastani, Al Milal Wal Nihal)

Not once does Uthaymeen says that the face of Allah is like humans unless I’m missing something. He says the face of Allah is befitting his ‘essence’. Even with regards to describing it he says ‘only Allah knows’.

Hence where does he say it’s the same as humans? I don’t even see myself as Salafi anymore anyway due to my feelings surrounding Sh. Abdul Wahab, as you know we’ve had debated and then convos about this, but I’m trying to be fair here.

 

[World]

Not once does Uthaymeen says that the face of Allah is like humans unless I’m missing something. He says the face of Allah is befitting his ‘essence’. Even with regards to describing it he says ‘only Allah knows’.

Hence where does he say it’s the same as humans? I don’t even see myself as Salafi anymore anyway due to my feelings surrounding Sh. Abdul Wahab, as you know we’ve had debated and then convos about this, but I’m trying to be fair here.

Ibn Uthaymeen said the following:

-Tashbih is not to be negated:

“To negate Tashbih (resemblance) in its entirety is not correct, because there are no two things among entities or attributes, except that they share something together between them. This commonality is a type of resemblance. If you, therefore, negate Tashbih absolutely, you are (by that) negating everything wherein there is a form of resemblance between the Creator and the creature. For example, existence: Both the Creator and the creature primarily share this together.” (Ibn Uthaymeen -Sharh Aqida Wasatiyyah Vol 1 pg 144)

This is the Athari belief:
Nuaym b Hammad, the Shaykh of Al Bukhari, may Allah have mercy upon them said, “Whoever draws a resemblance between Allah and His creation has disbelieved, and whosoever denies what Allah has described Himself with has also disbelieved – there is no resemblance (tashbih) or likeness (tamthil) in that with which Allah or His Messenger have described Him.” [Sharh Risala al Tadmuriyya]

The orthodox Athari, Athari and Maturidi creed is to negate Tashbih entirely. Salafis do not do this, as i’ve shown above. Ibn Uthaymeen literally said we don’t know if Allah’s face is a square, round or triangle(astaghfirulah).

 

[Hamzza]

Ibn Uthaymeen:

نقول مثلاً وجه الله ولم نقل وجه وأطلقنا فوجه الله يكون لائقا لذاته أو لائقا بذاته ، كما لو قلت وجه الفرس ووجه القط الهر هل تفهم منقولك وجه الفرس أنه مثل وجه الهر ؟ أبداً
We say for example "face of Allah" and we do not just say "face" in general [terms], because the face of Allah is befitting to His essence or befitting His essence.

Just like when you say "face of a horse" and "face of a cat": Do you understand from your statement "face of a horse" that it is like (mithl) the "face of a cat"? Never...

Ibn Uthayman is saying just like the face of a horse and the face of a cat are not completely like each other, but similar to each other we should implement this on Allah. Astaghfirullah, he is mentioning the body parts of animals while speaking regarding the divine attributes.

Ibn Uthaymeen says:
نؤمن بأن لله وجها حقيقيا ولكن لو سئلنا عن كيفيته أمستطيل هو أو مستدير أم مربع أو مدور أو ما أشبه ذلك أيشنقول... نقول الله أعلم



We believe that God has a real face. But if we were to be asked regarding its modality [like] whether it's rectangular or circular or square-shaped or round or what is similar to this, how do we respond [then] ?... We respond [by saying] ʼGod knows bestʼ...

Rectangular or circular? Subhanallah. So Allah’s face is with a 3-dimensional form so it maybe round or rectangular for example? This is the creed of Salafis whilst Atharis are far removed from this deviant sect.

Why are you misrepresenting Shikh Ibn Uthaymeen's statement?

 

[JackieBurkhart]

Why are you misrepresenting Shikh Ibn Uthaymeen's statement?

Lool, I can't take you serious after this:

I forgot @JackieBurkhart, she probably hates me for my trolling and staunch Salafi character playing but we are very similar.

Not to forget is also the legend that is @Basra. She is so creative. A breath of fresh air to what is otherwise a boring forum indeed.

 

[Hamzza]

Ibn Uthaymeen said the following:

-Tashbih is not to be negated:

“To negate Tashbih (resemblance) in its entirety is not correct, because there are no two things among entities or attributes, except that they share something together between them. This commonality is a type of resemblance. If you, therefore, negate Tashbih absolutely, you are (by that) negating everything wherein there is a form of resemblance between the Creator and the creature. For example, existence: Both the Creator and the creature primarily share this together.” (Ibn Uthaymeen -Sharh Aqida Wasatiyyah Vol 1 pg 144)

This is the Athari belief:
Nuaym b Hammad, the Shaykh of Al Bukhari, may Allah have mercy upon them said, “Whoever draws a resemblance between Allah and His creation has disbelieved, and whosoever denies what Allah has described Himself with has also disbelieved – there is no resemblance (tashbih) or likeness (tamthil) in that with which Allah or His Messenger have described Him.” [Sharh Risala al Tadmuriyya]

The orthodox Athari, Athari and Maturidi creed is to negate Tashbih entirely. Salafis do not do this, as i’ve shown above. Ibn Uthaymeen literally said we don’t know if Allah’s face is a square, round or triangle(astaghfirulah).

This is Imam Ahmad saying something similar to what Sheikh Ibn Uthaymeen said and what the real Atharis say:

Imam Ahmad pointed to his fingers to affirm fingers as a divine attribute. It is reported that when discussing the hadith about Allah placing the creation on His Fingers, Imam Ahmad pointed to each individual finger of his to emphasize the affirmation of this divine attribute

It is reported in Abdullah b. Ahmad’s al-Sunnah, vol. 1, p. 264:

Say oh Subhanalah!! he pointed to his fingers

 

[World]

This is Imam Ahmad saying something similar to what Sheikh Ibn Uthaymeen said and what the real Atharis say:



It is reported in Abdullah b. Ahmad’s al-Sunnah, vol. 1, p. 264:

Say oh Subhanalah!! he pointed to his fingers

It’s a fake fabricated book attributed the son of Imam Ahmed.

Contains 49 pages of so called slander against Abu Hanifa by Imam Ahmed like the below:

Ishaq ibn Mansur al-Kusaj (d. 251/865) said, "I asked Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, ‘Is a man rewarded by Allah for loathing Abu Hanifa and his colleagues?’ and he said, ‘Yes, by Allah’" (Kitab. As Sunnah Vol 1, Page 180).

And many fabricated fake hadiths to justify hardcore anthropologist beliefs such as the below:

“Allah wrote the Torah for Moses with His hand while leaning back on a rock, on tablets of pearl, and the screech of the quill could be heard. There was no veil between Him and him," (Vol. 1, p. 294, Kitab al-sunnah)

and this too:
“when He Most Blessed and Exalted sits on the Kursi, a squeak is heard like the squeak of a new leather saddle”
(Kitab As Sunnah volume 1, p.301)

Are you admitting that these are your beliefs?

 

[unknowntraveller]

They’ll nuke you if you bring up Somalis being Ashari.

Cities lean towards Salafiyyah, while the countryside is mostly sufis. Now the question is are there more people in baadiyah than the cities, or vice versa

 

[Hamzza]

It’s a fake fabricated book attributed the son of Imam Ahmed.

Contains 49 pages of so called slander against Abu Hanifa by Imam Ahmed like the below:

Ishaq ibn Mansur al-Kusaj (d. 251/865) said, "I asked Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, ‘Is a man rewarded by Allah for loathing Abu Hanifa and his colleagues?’ and he said, ‘Yes, by Allah’" (Kitab. As Sunnah Vol 1, Page 180).

And many fabricated fake hadiths to justify hardcore anthropologist beliefs such as the below:

“Allah wrote the Torah for Moses with His hand while leaning back on a rock, on tablets of pearl, and the screech of the quill could be heard. There was no veil between Him and him," (Vol. 1, p. 294, Kitab al-sunnah)

and this too:
“when He Most Blessed and Exalted sits on the Kursi, a squeak is heard like the squeak of a new leather saddle”
(Kitab As Sunnah volume 1, p.301)

Are you admitting that these are your beliefs?

the book is authentically attributed to Abdullah, and many ulama have quoted from it in their works; the Hanabilah have accepted this work as his.

From them are :

1) Ibn Al Jawzi

He narrates in Al 'Ilal Al-Mutanahiyah (1:28)

"'Abdullah Ibn Ahmad narrated in his "Kitab Al Sunnah" from Sa'eed Ibn Jubayr, he said: "The Bani Isra'il said to
Musa : Does our Lord sleep?""

And this narration is present in "Kitab Al Sunnah" n.1028.

2) Adh Dhahabi

He writes in Al 'Uluw p 102:

"'Abdullah Ibn Ahmad Ibn Hanbal narrated in his "Kitab Al Sunnah" from his father from Nuh Ibn Maymun from Bakeer Ibn Ma'ruf from Muqatil Ibn Hayyan about His saying : "There is no discussion between three except He is the fourth", that he said: He is upon His throne and His knowledge is with them"

This narration is present in "Kitab Al Sunnah" n 592.

3) Ibn Abi Ya'la

In Tabaqat Al Hanabilah (1:175) :

"'Abdullah Ibn Ahmad said: I asked my father about people who say: "When Allāh spoke to Musa, He did not speak with a voice" and my father said: "Allāh spoke with a voice" ...to the end of the narration.

This narration is present in "Kitab Al Sunnah" n. 533 and 534.h

This book is authority when it comes to Athari creed.

What Imam Ahmed said about the fingers is not odd, considering that the Prophet ﷺ himself is reported to have clenched and opened his fingers when relaying the same.

Sahih Muslim 2788b - Characteristics of the Day of Judgment, Paradise, and Hell - كتاب صفة القيامة والجنة والنار - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

As for the criticism of Imam Abu Haneefah, the reviewer of the book stated that much of what is quoted from them in this book is not authentically attributed to the scholars to whom it was attributed. The reviewer of the book also stated that Abdullaah ibn Imaam Ahmad was not the only one who criticized Abu Haneefah, but also Ibn Hibbaan, Al-Bukhari, Ibn Qutaybah, Ibn Abi Shaybah, Al-Khateeb Al-Baghdaadi and Al-Laalikaa’i

 

[Al hashimi]

If you follow Qur'an and Sunnah and Salaf and Khalaf you are automatically a Salafi whether you like it or not

 

[World]

the book is authentically attributed to Abdullah, and many ulama have quoted from it in their works; the Hanabilah have accepted this work as his.

From them are :



This book is authority when it comes to Athari creed.

What Imam Ahmed said about the fingers is not odd, considering that the Prophet ﷺ himself is reported to have clenched and opened his fingers when relaying the same.

Sahih Muslim 2788b - Characteristics of the Day of Judgment, Paradise, and Hell - كتاب صفة القيامة والجنة والنار - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

As for the criticism of Imam Abu Haneefah, the reviewer of the book stated that much of what is quoted from them in this book is not authentically attributed to the scholars to whom it was attributed. The reviewer of the book also stated that Abdullaah ibn Imaam Ahmad was not the only one who criticized Abu Haneefah, but also Ibn Hibbaan, Al-Bukhari, Ibn Qutaybah, Ibn Abi Shaybah, Al-Khateeb Al-Baghdaadi and Al-Laalikaa’i

It is ironic you claim Imam Jawzi al Hanbali.

Imam Jawzi wrote a book called “Daf' Shubah al-Tashbih bi-Akaff al-Tanzih”

It’s a book clarifying orthodox Athari creed and defending Imam Ahmed from anthropologists who claimed they followed his creed.

Here is an English translation for those interested:

The Attributes Of God : Imam Ibn Jawzi : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Abd al-Rahman al-Jawzi Daf Shubah Al Tashbih, This highly controversial treatise, written in the 12th century by one of Islam’s most prolific writers,...

archive.org

It refutes everything you claim.

Thanks for admitting that you believe the following:

“Allah wrote the Torah for Moses with His hand while leaning back on a rock, on tablets of pearl, and the screech of the quill could be heard. There was no veil between Him and him," (Vol. 1, p. 294, Kitab al-sunnah)

Anyone who isn’t an extremely brainwashed Salafi through their heart will know that this is an anthropologist disgusting belief that Allah is sitting down with his back on a rock writing the Torah with a pen that you can hear. Astaghfirulah.

 

[Hamzza]

It is ironic you claim Imam Jawzi al Hanbali.

Imam Jawzi wrote a book called “Daf' Shubah al-Tashbih bi-Akaff al-Tanzih”

It’s a book clarifying orthodox Athari creed and defending Imam Ahmed from anthropologists who claimed they followed his creed.

Here is an English translation for those interested:

The Attributes Of God : Imam Ibn Jawzi : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Abd al-Rahman al-Jawzi Daf Shubah Al Tashbih, This highly controversial treatise, written in the 12th century by one of Islam’s most prolific writers,...

archive.org

It refutes everything you claim.

Thanks for admitting that you believe the following:

“Allah wrote the Torah for Moses with His hand while leaning back on a rock, on tablets of pearl, and the screech of the quill could be heard. There was no veil between Him and him," (Vol. 1, p. 294, Kitab al-sunnah)

Anyone who isn’t an extremely brainwashed Salafi through their heart will know that this is an anthropologist disgusting belief that Allah is sitting down with his back on a rock writing the Torah with a pen that you can hear. Astaghfirulah.

You claimed Abdullahi bin Ahmed is wrongly attributed to this book. Are you denying Al Jawzi quotes from Kitab Al-Sunnah and considers Abdullahi bin Imam Ahmed its author?

How is Al Jawzi writing another book you don't know its content refutes my claim? kkkk

Al Jawzi is actually claimed by the Ashaira as his belief in the Attributes of God is similar to theirs. He is refuting the Atharis you claim to be part of(No Salafis mujassim existed at his time) as all Ashairas do.

 

[Al hashimi]

When Allah says he has eyes or hands HE DOES. But not in the way we understand because nothing "is like unto him"

 

[Hamzza]

In his Wikipedia, it states he is Ashari.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Jawzi

What Athari shares and promotes Ashari's criticism of the Atharis? @World

 

[citrus_samurai]

Somalia was traditionally overwhelmingly Shafi’i Ashari.

 

[citrus_samurai]

Btw there have been Athari Sufis. One example is sheikh Abdulqadir al Jilani.

 

[World]

In his Wikipedia, it states he is Ashari.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Jawzi

What Athari shares and promotes Ashari's criticism of the Atharis? @World

Go and read what Ibn Jawzi said regarding Asharis outside of an edited Wikipedia page.

 

[Somalihero]

I have never met a somali ashari.

The Majority of the Sunni Muslims belong to either Ashari or Maturdiyah school, Wahhabis or so called Salafis are less than 3% of Ummah:

 

[Hxni]

When Allah says he has eyes or hands HE DOES. But not in the way we understand because nothing "is like unto him"

Aoothbillah. Why would God, the creator of hands and eyes have attributes of the creations???

If you follow Qur'an and Sunnah and Salaf and Khalaf you are automatically a Salafi whether you like it or not

Also nope this is false. Salafis favourite thing to say to substantiate their false beliefs aoothbillah

The salaf didnt have those kufr beliefs some salafis hold

Also salafis follow Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab, his not from the salaf