Is becoming a Single mother inevitable?

[Kisame]

Well I wasn’t ever planning on becoming a mother, I was just speaking hypothetically. Secondly, I don’t get the cat remark what’s that about?

If I wanted to find a childfree xalimo how would you recommend I find one?

 

[Mudug_gyal]

You know what not it? Being a single mum, if he gets to forget about them kids why can’t I?

I never said its right for the father to do that either.

 

[Sophisticate]

I think this relates to your perception. If you were around the opposite (married and two parent households) you would not assume divorce and single parenthood were natural outcomes of marriage but more of a last resort in an untenable situation.

 

[Yeri]

If I wanted to find a childfree xalimo how would you recommend I find one?

If she is an older sister to 5 plus kids, she definitely was a second hooyo to them kids. Those are the type that I noticed that don't want to be mothers.

 

[empressjamila]

Most of these marriages are usually done in their early 20s, it is guaranteed not to work out, one of the main reasons why I haven't married yet.

Take your time finding the right match, lower your expectations and don't squabble like kids,

I think late 20’s is the best time to get married.

My parents married in their late 20’s which was uncommon in their time, but they’re still together 27 years later.

Better to marry late than marry wrong

 

[Angelina]

Somali society is in total shambles right now. The nuclear household broke apart with the country's total collapse.
Just make sure you find a good man who is compatible with you. Qashin ha guursan.
same goes for the dudes.


I find myself in women's den once again.
didn't read, apologies ladies.

Not true. Divorce was also very common in the past. Even in the 60s, anthropologists like I.Lewis also mentions this.

 

[techsamatar]

Not true. Divorce was also very common in the past. Even in the 60s, anthropologists like I.Lewis also mentions this.

Divorce was not prevalent in the 1960s in the Western Liberal world, let alone in third-world countries, very unrealistic divorce was very common in Somalia during 20th century.

Anthropologist I. Lewis does not make reference to it. I am uncertain about the source you are consulting. The work titled "Somalia Marriage and Divorce" is neither statistical nor credible but pure guesswork, as explicitly stated within the content.

DIVORCE AND REMARRIAGE 8.1 ARE DIVORCES COMMON?
"There are no divorce statistics in Somalia, but the vast majority of those describing Somali family life and marriages believe that divorce (furriin/furniin) is relatively common."


INTRODUCTION:
"No systematic studies of marriage and marriage patterns has been carried out in Somalia. This report is based on information from various Somali resource persons in and outside Somalia, as well as articles on family structure, marriage and cohabitation written by anthropologists and Somalia experts. Anthropologist and Somalia expert Ioan M. Lewis gives a relatively in-depth description of traditions in northern Somalia, and Somali journalist Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi also describes marriage traditions in the Somali society. However, hardly any fieldwork has been carried out over the last twenty to thirty years due to the fragile security situation in most parts of the country."

 

[Angelina]

Divorce was not prevalent in the 1960s in the Western Liberal world, let alone in third-world countries, very unrealistic divorce was very common in Somalia during 20th century.

Saying this shows how little you know of history and how Western Christian societies used to operate Pre-1960s. Please explain why would divorce be higher in a society in which it is illegal vs one in which a man can just divorce a woman in a matter of a second?

Anthropologist I. Lewis does not make reference to it. I am uncertain about the source you are consulting. The work titled "Somalia Marriage and Divorce" is neither statistical nor credible but pure guesswork, as explicitly stated within the content.

DIVORCE AND REMARRIAGE 8.1 ARE DIVORCES COMMON?
"There are no divorce statistics in Somalia, but the vast majority of those describing Somali family life and marriages believe that divorce (furriin/furniin) is relatively common."

Even though this article doesn’t provide statistics, through the writers travels and talking to locals it is evident that divorce was common and normal. But you need to understand that in the UK Pre-1960s was ILLEGAL.

INTRODUCTION:
"No systematic studies of marriage and marriage patterns has been carried out in Somalia. This report is based on information from various Somali resource persons in and outside Somalia, as well as articles on family structure, marriage and cohabitation written by anthropologists and Somalia experts. Anthropologist and Somalia expert Ioan M. Lewis gives a relatively in-depth description of traditions in northern Somalia, and Somali journalist Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi also describes marriage traditions in the Somali society. However, hardly any fieldwork has been carried out over the last twenty to thirty years due to the fragile security situation in most parts of the country."

If you knew anything about history you’d know that historically, Muslim societies have always had a different culture/approach with regards to divorce compared to Christian pre 1960s Europe in which divorce was illegal for the general population and when it was legal it very hard to obtain and was only obtained by the rich due to the immense cost of the court cases and the like compared to Arab and Somali societies in which all a man has to utter is ‘Talaq, Talaq,Talaq’.

Pre-1960s Europe wasn’t liberal and it is a fact that real Christians have always had a harsher and more difficult stance to divorce compared to that of Muslims. In the Christian faith, divorce isn’t allowed unless it’s an extreme case and usually it would have to be annulled. By the early 20th century, divorce was starting to gain traction but only amongst the rich and even then it was seen as scandalous and a social ruin. Muslim societies have never viewed divorce in that way.

You need to understand that the past was completely different to the present. Divorce in the past wasn’t seen as a liberal vs conservativeness in Muslim countries. That’s a Christian European way of looking at things. Christians view the rising divorce rates as a marker of liberalism as divorce isn’t technically allowed in their religion.

 

[techsamatar]

Saying this shows how little you know of history and how Western Christian societies used to operate Pre-1960s. Please explain why would divorce be higher in a society in which it is illegal vs one in which a man can just divorce a woman in a matter of a second?

Even though this article doesn’t provide statistics, through the writers travels and talking to locals it is evident that divorce was common and normal. But you need to understand that in the UK Pre-1960s was ILLEGAL.

If you knew anything about history you’d know that historically, Muslim societies have always had a different culture/approach with regards to divorce compared to Christian pre 1960s Europe in which divorce was illegal for the general population and when it was legal it very hard to obtain and was only obtained by the rich due to the immense cost of the court cases and the like compared to Arab and Somali societies in which all a man has to utter is ‘Talaq, Talaq,Talaq’.

Pre-1960s Europe wasn’t liberal and it is a fact that real Christians have always had a harsher and more difficult stance to divorce compared to that of Muslims. In the Christian faith, divorce isn’t allowed unless it’s an extreme case and usually it would have to be annulled. By the early 20th century, divorce was starting to gain traction but only amongst the rich and even then it was seen as scandalous and a social ruin. Muslim societies have never viewed divorce in that way.

You need to understand that the past was completely different to the present. Divorce in the past wasn’t seen as a liberal vs conservativeness in Muslim countries. That’s a Christian European way of looking at things. Christians view the rising divorce rates as a marker of liberalism as divorce isn’t technically allowed in their religion.

View attachment 314045View attachment 314046View attachment 314047

I stand corrected. Despite divorce becoming legal in the 1960s, the actual prevalence during that decade was low, with only 9 out of 1000 marriages ending in divorce. The rates began to rise significantly in the 1980s and 1990s, reaching 20 per 1000 marriages by 2010 thanks to liberalism which now 80% of divorce in west is initiated by women.

Engaging in travel and conversations with locals doesn't serve as conclusive evidence, and it's explicitly stated that no fieldwork was conducted, as individual villages don't represent the entire societal context. The assertion that divorce is normal and common doesn't bring anything ground-breaking, as Somali culture and Islam permit divorce, and having multiple wives is customary. In the past, and even today, it's not uncommon for a person to remarry multiple times, in contrast to the prevalent trend of singlehood in the Western world due to liberal ideologies and notions of liberation.

The only reliable way to ascertain the divorce rate in Somalia, without relying on Lewis's speculative assumptions that suggest a higher divorce rate in the 80s than in the West, would be through access to court records and Islamic or tribal documentation detailing the frequency of divorces in each city or region. However, obtaining such data might prove challenging.

Either way, we do not have a single mother pandemic in Somalia, present or past. For us, divorce does not necessarily imply a Western context as the child will always have stepmothers or stepfathers, along with other family members or half-siblings, without the toxic exclusion from either fatherhood or motherhood.

 

[Angelina]

I stand corrected. Despite divorce becoming legal in the 1960s, the actual prevalence during that decade was low, with only 9 out of 1000 marriages ending in divorce. The rates began to rise significantly in the 1980s and 1990s, reaching 20 per 1000 marriages by 2010 thanks to liberalism which now 80% of divorce in west is initiated by women.

Don’t be silly. In what world does something becoming legal mean societal attitudes will change overnight? You need to understand that in the 1960s, people were overall a lot more religious. Simply looking at church attendance rates and comparing it todays modern Europe will illustrate it. Due to the prevalence of Christianity and an older generation of parents and grandparents who were still alive and held old fashioned ideas of divorce being morally wrong and scandalous, led to lower divorce rates in the 60s. By the 80s, many of those people with those views died out or become desensitized.

Let’s compare it to Somalis who have never had that taboo due to divorce being seen as legal and halal. Also our divorce process is easy and simple whilst Christian Europeans had to wait months if not sometimes years just to divorce.

Engaging in travel and conversations with locals doesn't serve as conclusive evidence, and it's explicitly stated that no fieldwork was conducted, as individual villages don't represent the entire societal context.

The locals clearly thought it was common though. That was what Somalis were telling him and it was the same for Burton in the 1850s who saw divorce a lot during his short travels whilst it was scandalous and unheard of in his English Victorian society.

The assertion that divorce is normal and common doesn't bring anything ground-breaking, as Somali culture and Islam permit divorce, and having multiple wives is customary.

It was common and that was what the locals thought. Hence, divorces happened a lot in the past which it was what the word common means. The fact that historical Somalis felt this way shows it must have happened a lot in their society. As you mentioned, it wasn’t ground breaking, so why argue with me?

In the past, and even today, it's not uncommon for a person to remarry multiple times, in contrast to the prevalent trend of singlehood in the Western world due to liberal ideologies and notions of liberation.

So why are you arguing with me then? Divorce was common in the past and it’s common now. We don’t even have any statistical research to back that divorce is high amongst Somalis now in 2024, and all of our assertions about divorce amongst Somalis in this day and age especially in the West is based on anecdotes and seeing a pattern, our ancestors clearly felt the same way and they too saw a pattern in their own societies.

 

[NomadicWarlord]

I stand corrected. Despite divorce becoming legal in the 1960s, the actual prevalence during that decade was low, with only 9 out of 1000 marriages ending in divorce. The rates began to rise significantly in the 1980s and 1990s, reaching 20 per 1000 marriages by 2010 thanks to liberalism which now 80% of divorce in west is initiated by women.

Engaging in travel and conversations with locals doesn't serve as conclusive evidence, and it's explicitly stated that no fieldwork was conducted, as individual villages don't represent the entire societal context. The assertion that divorce is normal and common doesn't bring anything ground-breaking, as Somali culture and Islam permit divorce, and having multiple wives is customary. In the past, and even today, it's not uncommon for a person to remarry multiple times, in contrast to the prevalent trend of singlehood in the Western world due to liberal ideologies and notions of liberation.

The only reliable way to ascertain the divorce rate in Somalia, without relying on Lewis's speculative assumptions that suggest a higher divorce rate in the 80s than in the West, would be through access to court records and Islamic or tribal documentation detailing the frequency of divorces in each city or region. However, obtaining such data might prove challenging.

Either way, we do not have a single mother pandemic in Somalia, present or past. For us, divorce does not necessarily imply a Western context as the child will always have stepmothers or stepfathers, along with other family members or half-siblings, without the toxic exclusion from either fatherhood or motherhood.

Akhi what are you doing here? I thought you left here for good

 

[techsamatar]

Akhi what are you doing here? I thought you left here for good

I never mentioned leaving for good, but rather returning to a more robotic life until 2025 new years and not making threads or being here frequently. Currently, I have my mom's cousins and sisters friends and other people in my house whom I don't know Much, so I'm killing some time.

 

[attash]

Not true. Divorce was also very common in the past. Even in the 60s, anthropologists like I.Lewis also mentions this.

Do you think that divorce is more common nowadays amongst Somalis then it is back then?

 

[Angelina]

Do you think that divorce is more common nowadays amongst Somalis then it is back then?

Probably, but we don’t have any statistical evidence to back this up. We don’t even have current statistics about Somali divorce rates. We just all believe that divorce is higher now due to anecdotes and societal trends we’ve all noted. Despite divorce probably being higher now, previous generations also believed that divorce was high and common during their time period as well and shockingly believed it was even higher in the past. Travelers and anthropologists also commented on the same phenomenon. Example:

Somalis of the mid 20th century believed divorce was even worse amongst the generations before them. So it might have been worse in the late 1800s and early 1900s and this is what Burton saw in his travels in the 1850s:

Just as a side note, Burton could be bias here since he was from a very repressed Victorian English society in which not only was divorce seen as morally scandalous but also illegal for the majority of the masses. But I do find this to be an interesting comment and reflects what the Somalis of the mid 20th century have said about divorce also being high in the past.

I feel like divorce rates weren’t that low in the past but we don’t talk about this as we’re built this false rhetoric of higher divorce= liberalism and lack of religiosity when that is a very Christian and European way of perceiving things and is generally at odds with how Somali society saw divorce.

In saying that, I do believe certain parts of the North were more anti divorce than maybe other parts, and Somalis of old also believed it was more of an issue in the South, but anthropologists like I.M Lewis and historical travelers saw high divorce rates amongst Northerners as well. I.M Lewis shockingly noted 25% in just one Northern group and that was before the 60s and the comment I posted by Burton was one in which he made about Northern Somalis.

 

[Angelina]

@attash

I updated and edited my previous comment. I made a couple of mistakes earlier. So I hope it easier to understand.

 

[Aseer]

@Angelina Do you have a gender studies degree

 

[rayxn3]

Every woman ik is a single mother. My cousin got married 3 years ago and even she got divorced cus she got cheated on. Even If i had a gun to my head I cant name one somali couple. I even grew in a single mother household including all my direct cousins that live here. Is this a common thing?

I feel like it’s more common in the UK to see single mother households. My grandparent’s relationship lasted for a long time until my grandad passed away though. So I hope I find something like what they had inshallah. I would hate to be a single mother too.

 

[boredandtired]

Just don't have kids, it isn't that hard tbh. Ngl, most single mothers just chose poorly. I'm excluding older somali women from this assessment due to them not having much choice over who they marry unlike us.