In your opinion which leader made Somalia worse?

[Idilinaa]

I don't believe Somalia’s political situation can be pinned on any one group or leader. The truth is, much of what happened was shaped by geopolitical dynamics and externally manufactured crises.


If you study this from a historical lens, as I do, it becomes clear: this had little to do with tribalism, terrorism/extremism, Somali culture, or the inherent nature of Somali society.


In fact, when you take those elements, clan structure, Islam, culture, social cohesion, into account, you’ll see that Somalis are remarkably capable when left to their own devices. Just look at the private sector: left untouched by foreign interference, it has thrived. Meanwhile, the public sector/govt has been repeatedly manipulated by external actors attempting to install a government aligned with their interests.

You can also look at different Somali regions that was left alone started to economically recover and became stable.

The difference is night and day.

 

[livinlavish]

To me, AS ideology had definitely been brewing over the years. I don’t see how it suddenly sprung up and gained momentum solely because of the Ethiopian invasion.

AS became radicalised (khawarjis) due to the Ethiopian invasion. If you saw xabashi tanks pulling up to your xaafad shooting and bombing indiscriminately, raping your women, killing people whilst they were praying in the mosque would you also not become radicalised?

Now im not saying i support AS but there is a reason to why they became who they were today, they were a product of their own environment. Many of my relatives died fighting for them against the xabashis (AUN) but they werent khawarjis they were just simply men protecting their livelihood against invaders.

May Allah tighten the grave of AY and make him answer to the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians that he caused.

 

[Somali Saayid]

Ignore??
Barre started all the stuff you’re talking about. The so-called rebels were really his former buddies in the military who just followed in his footsteps

USC orphans denying their heritage part #48642

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Abdulahi yusuf probably deserves the larger share of the blame. But the more i think about it the icu guys were also retarded . They somehow didnt see the writing on the wall and and didnt try to negotiate and compromise. America had already invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. It was clear the u.s was on a war path and the only people claiming they were an Islamist govt was them.

There was no negotiations possible the US/CIA wanted the ICU gone at all costs, they confirmed that they didn't even want to fight Ethiopia and they were just defending themselves.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

International jihadists had a presence in southern Somalia before 2006 but due to clan politics, they remained on the low.

Al-Barakat was (co)owned and staffed by literally every itixaad firxad.

That graph doesn't take into account the whole thing: Ceyrow and Xassan Türki ran training camps since the 90s. All alshabab fighters graduated from these camps. There were little islamist activity since their loss in late 90s because they were preparing and training for years - looking for an opportunity, which they found in the ICU.


You guys are making stuff up.

Why was I being called a qabilist when I was stating this? You guys only want to hear the truth from your own

 

[The Oponian Guild]

 

[TheLand]

The saddest moment in my life was on 27 December 206. My clan came out in droves clapping and cheering for the Ethiopian tanks. It was like Eid to them. There were celebrations and parties with music, flowers and flags - Ethiopian and Somali.
At that moment, I didn't understand why they were so unpatriotic but now I understand. They were no different than you. They didn't ally with Xabashi. Just looking out for their interests - blinded by qabiil. They sang: Tigray tagi maa intaan ka tabar yeelaa.

The entire ICU-TFG-Ethiopain-CIA-Jihad Fiasco was about clan politics.

I supported the ICU while my uncles and cousins kept pressing me to attend the Qur'aan aqris in the mosque. We were reading the quraan to defeat the ICU (read:ceyr).

You are all a bunch of hooyo mataalos full of shit.

If I were to guess I’d say you must be around 40, atleast

I once saw(not in person alhamdullilah) proto-ICU do a cross-amputation of a young man in Xamar. Anyone that heard his horrific screams would never support such people. There was also that incident where a man was publicly executed by allowing another man to stab him to death as he had apparently done to his father. They made the women come out and watch, a pregnant woman fainted when blood gushed from the man’s head. Were you there for that?

 

[Bahal]

If you guys would've just left my dear late great uncle alone, we would be posting from our respective tuulos



How do you win the war and follow us losers right out of the country

 

[Bahal]

If I were to guess I’d say you must be around 40, atleast

I once saw(not in person alhamdullilah) proto-ICU do a cross-amputation of a young man in Xamar. Anyone that heard his horrific screams would never support such people. There was also that incident where a man was publicly executed by allowing another man to stab him to death as he had apparently done to his father. They made the women come out and watch, a pregnant woman fainted when blood gushed from the man’s head. Were you there for that?

I knew something was fishy about the ICU when Indhacadde miraculously became a sheikh

 

[reer]

I knew something was fishy about the ICU when Indhacadde miraculously became a sheikh

here is a hilarious quote:
Madaxa Amniga ee Golaha Maxkamadaha Islaamiga Soomaaliyeed Sheekh Yuusuf Max’ed Siyaad (indhacadde) oo uu dhinaciisa midig fadhiyo ku xigeenkiisa dhinaca amaanka sh: muqtaarroobow ( abuu mansuur ).
https://www.somalitalk.com/2006/dec/13dec046.html
icu couldnt get rid of the reputation of qabiil. here is a wikileak.

Author(s)
Sheikh Hassan Aweys

Authored on
November 9, 2005
..........
..........
The minority clans who are marginalized by those administrations should be welcomed and influenced. The Wagerdha’a sub-clan of the Marehan should to be supported and hostilities promoted within other sub-clans of the Marehan.
........

Shiikh Hassan Dahir Aweys (signed)

https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Translation_of_Aweis_Letter.doc

 

[SomaliSteel]

Siyad Barre. He did 2 terrible things, he brought dictatorship and socialism. That doomed us.

 

[Bahal]

here is a hilarious quote:
Madaxa Amniga ee Golaha Maxkamadaha Islaamiga Soomaaliyeed Sheekh Yuusuf Max’ed Siyaad (indhacadde) oo uu dhinaciisa midig fadhiyo ku xigeenkiisa dhinaca amaanka sh: muqtaarroobow ( abuu mansuur ).
https://www.somalitalk.com/2006/dec/13dec046.html
icu couldnt get rid of the reputation of qabiil. here is a wikileak.

I'm not even gonna try to lie, I was pro-ICU until they decided to "liberate" Kismaayo

 

[reer]

If you guys would've just left my dear late great uncle alone, we would be posting from our respective tuulos



How do you win the war and follow us losers right out of the country

its to downplay the disgrace of their clan's elites shamelessly pimping the country out to amisom for over a decade. then they drag the rest of somalis into a never ending amisom-swahili-fest instead of keeping them in their clan lands.

 

[Bahal]

its to downplay the disgrace of their clan's elites shamelessly pimping the country out to amisom for over a decade. then they drag the rest of somalis into a never ending amisom-swahili-fest instead of keeping them in their clan lands.

Ninyahow I don't want to get into all of that tbh so I'll segue to two civilization dooming traits I hate the most about Somalis (among others):

a) our collective inability to have even a semblance of objectivity. We're hall of fame copers. We can never concede a point, never be in the wrong, never admit to mistakes. It's infuriating and a major reason for our unfortunate position in the world.

And

b) Our collective abaal la'aan and propensity for xaqir. This translates into everyday interactions. I can count on one hand the amount of Somalis I've helped in my personal life who've reciprocated or even shown gratitude. God forbid things take a wrong turn, then of course you're to blame

Slightly off topic but I think somewhat pertinent to this thread. I just wish we can be a more honest people, admit our mistakes, learn from them, and try to one day become normal people

 

[The Oponian Guild]

If you guys would've just left my dear late great uncle alone, we would be posting from our respective tuulos



How do you win the war and follow us losers right out of the country

Somalida waa dad nasiib xun runti ahaan, with every glimmer of light comes a night of darkness

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Ninyahow I don't want to get into all of that tbh so I'll segue to two civilization dooming traits I hate the most about Somalis (among others):

a) our collective inability to have even a semblance of objectivity. We're hall of fame copers. We can never concede a point, never be in the wrong, never admit to mistakes. It's infuriating and a major reason for our unfortunate position in the world.

And

b) Our collective abaal la'aan and propensity for xaqir. This translates into everyday interactions. I can count on one hand the amount of Somalis I've helped in my personal life who've reciprocated or even shown gratitude. God forbid things take a wrong turn, then of course you're to blame

Slightly off topic but I think somewhat pertinent to this thread. I just wish we can be a more honest people, admit our mistakes, learn from them, and try to one day become normal people

You think out of all the major players in the civil war, not one was justified in doing what they did?

 

[Afar indhood]

If I were to guess I’d say you must be around 40, atleast

I once saw(not in person alhamdullilah) proto-ICU do a cross-amputation of a young man in Xamar. Anyone that heard his horrific screams would never support such people. There was also that incident where a man was publicly executed by allowing another man to stab him to death as he had apparently done to his father. They made the women come out and watch, a pregnant woman fainted when blood gushed from the man’s head. Were you there for that?

Bismillah
Wlhi I'm not that old waryaa
I was just too mature for my age
My sister still calls me canug
Ha na habaarin, aabahaa cun

I am soo soft-hearted to willingly watch that stuff. I always avoided them. People used to come to whippings and amputations in droves, even kids as young as 5 would be taken there. I only ever witnessed a jar@@r boy, about 15, being whipped in public for having p@rn on his Nokia. It was kinda soft beating but very humiliating.

 

[TheLand]

Bismillah
Wlhi I'm not that old waryaa
I was just too mature for my age
My sister still calls me canug
Ha na habaarin, aabahaa cun

I am soo soft-hearted to willingly watch that stuff. I always avoided them. People used to come to whippings and amputations in droves, even kids as young as 5 would be taken there. I only ever witnessed a jar@@r boy, about 15, being whipped in public for having p@rn on his Nokia. It was kinda soft beating but very humiliating.

Public cross-amputations for entertainment at Mogadishu stadium, what a time to be alive @DR OSMAN. They want to tell us those were the good times.

 

[Bahal]

You think out of all the major players in the civil war, not one was justified in doing what they did?

I think they were all justified tbh, I'm not necessarily against the idea of toppling an increasingly unpopular dictatorship that ran its course. It's something that happened everywhere, particularly at the end of the cold war in the late 80s/early 90s. Unfortunately in our case, what came after was completely without precedent

 

[Zak12]

I think they were all justified tbh, I'm not necessarily against the idea of toppling an increasingly unpopular dictatorship that ran its course. It's something that happened everywhere, particularly at the end of the cold war in the late 80s/early 90s. Unfortunately in our case, what came after was completely without precedent

The "civil war" would have ended by 1999 at the latest if it weren't for America