In your opinion which leader made Somalia worse?

[Afar indhood]

There is quite literally zero proof that the ICU let alone other Islamist groups operating during that time like Al-Ithaad were extreme. Even Dahir Aweys has no real evidence that it was extremist. Reminder that all the extremist allegations were nothing more than calacaal from Zenawi and AY who were desperately trying to find reasons to invade Somalia since they saw it was stabilizing under an ideology they disliked. Bush era America was also similar and did not like seeing Somalia achieving peace under Islamic rule. That is why the CIA was funding warlords in an attempt to stamp out the sharia courts, why they sanctioned remittance organizations like Al-Barakat and why they had plans to destabilize Somalia as early as 2003.

The best way to dispel all this nonsense is to show what Somalia was like pre-2006 and what it was like post-2006.

View attachment 363263

International jihadists had a presence in southern Somalia before 2006 but due to clan politics, they remained on the low.

Al-Barakat was (co)owned and staffed by literally every itixaad firxad.

That graph doesn't take into account the whole thing: Ceyrow and Xassan Türki ran training camps since the 90s. All alshabab fighters graduated from these camps. There were little islamist activity since their loss in late 90s because they were preparing and training for years - looking for an opportunity, which they found in the ICU.


You guys are making stuff up.

 

[Afar indhood]

@Barkhadle1520 you have said nothing but facts. Keep dropping the bomb on these kids. ICU was legit and the best thing that had happened to Somalia after the 91 civil war. So many of my family members died fighting against US backed Xabashi scum and their Somali puppets.

AY was used by Zenawi to appoint his tplf agent Gheedi, even the parliament chair fight in Kenya was Qanyares side fighting the Tplf coalition

LOL. There he goes again.
Qanyare and the other warlords worked with/for the tplf since every warlord depended on them for weapons.
He allegedly used to kidnap big-bearded guys and sell them to the CIA (I have no evidence for this - just urban legend that existed before the ICU emergence). He also used to tax Murusade businessmen (read:salafis). That's why they supported the ICU and used Ceyr muscle to kick him out. Qabyaalad baa indhaha ku tirtay.

Murusade, Ceyr, Duduble, Ogaden and RX were pro-ICU because it was in their interest.
Abgaal, Sacad, MJ opposed them because it was against their interests.

 

[Afar indhood]

My uncles and cousins fought heavily under ICU and clan assaults on the Ethiopians in Xamar Jadiid, Bakaaro till Garoonka. Guul to my Somali brethren who choose to be on the right side of history. Special type of hell fire waiting for those that allied themselves with the Xabash.

The saddest moment in my life was on 27 December 206. My clan came out in droves clapping and cheering for the Ethiopian tanks. It was like Eid to them. There were celebrations and parties with music, flowers and flags - Ethiopian and Somali.
At that moment, I didn't understand why they were so unpatriotic but now I understand. They were no different than you. They didn't ally with Xabashi. Just looking out for their interests - blinded by qabiil. They sang: Tigray tagi maa intaan ka tabar yeelaa.

The entire ICU-TFG-Ethiopain-CIA-Jihad Fiasco was about clan politics.

I supported the ICU while my uncles and cousins kept pressing me to attend the Qur'aan aqris in the mosque. We were reading the quraan to defeat the ICU (read:ceyr).

You are all a bunch of hooyo mataalos full of shit.

 

[Step a side]

LOL. There he goes again.
Qanyare and the other warlords worked with/for the tplf since every warlord depended on them for weapons.
He allegedly used to kidnap big-bearded guys and sell them to the CIA (I have no evidence for this - just urban legend that existed before the ICU emergence). He also used to tax Murusade businessmen (read:salafis) because he taxed them lol. That's why they supported the ICU and used Ceyr muscle to kick him out. Qabyaalad baa indhaha ku tirtay.

Murusade, Ceyr, Duduble, Ogaden and RX were pro-ICU because it was in their interest.
Abgaal, Sacad, MJ opposed them because it was against their interests.

Provide sources or stay quiet. The guy was a multi millionaire with multiple streams of income . There was absolutely no need for him to tax his own people lol

Washington post from 89

 

[Devilsadvocate]

What extremist courts are you referring to ?

Abdullahi Yusuf (LA) even got his home back during the ICU era. The ICU had a whole separate court dedicated to giving people back their properties that they had lost during the warlord era.

View attachment 363260

The ICU is the closest thing to a government we had since '91, it had legitimate public support all over Somalia and bringed order, peace and justice back afte a decade of warlords running around doing xasuq, tugniimo and xoog everywhere.

The ICU even banned discrimination against minorities.

View attachment 363261

They not only brought peace and security to the south after 15 years of anarchy but they also tackled societal ills such as discrimination: They were working towards an end to the brutalization of minorities, something the western regime is still unable today to this day.

Soomaali Islaam oo kaliya ayaa midayn karta.

Banning discrimination and returning homes are the bare minimum. You can see these same actions in Jilib but that does not mean the leaders in Jilib are righteous. My main issue with the ICU is allowing radical extremists such as Dahir Aweys and ayrow to hold positions of power within the movement, as well as its expansionist nature. The ICU had a nationalist agenda to rule the whole of Somalia. Unless the ICU met with relevant stakeholders from the northern regions and both sides came to a uniform agreement that it should govern areas outside its control in southern Somalia, then having plans to do so makes the agenda expansionist and immoral imo, especially when there was relative peace in those regions. Yes, the radicals were a minority but their ideology was still tolerated by the moderates, and Dahir Aweys held one of the most influential positions within the ICU. When the Ethiopians invaded, which I do not support, it led to AS, made up of ex-ICU members, gaining momentum and spiralling into what it is today. To me, AS ideology had definitely been brewing over the years. I don’t see how it suddenly sprung up and gained momentum solely because of the Ethiopian invasion.

Spoiler: Extremist figures

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Spoiler: ICU goals.

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[_Yusuf_]

Siyad Barre was the goat and the last president no question about it.

 

[Afar indhood]

Provide sources or stay quiet. The guy was a multi millionaire with multiple streams of income . There was absolutely no need for him to tax his own people lol

View attachment 363274


Washington post from 89


View attachment 363278

Wey kuu gaartay. Ignoring my entire post to flex Qanyare's wealth.

 

[Step a side]

Wey kuu gaartay. Ignoring my entire post to flex Qanyare's wealth.

Nah I actually debunked your false claims that Qanyare taxed his people. Like I mentioned earlier, provide sources or stay quite. I don’t argue with people that can’t back their arguments.

 

[Step a side]

TPLF condom

 

[Afar indhood]

Banning discrimination and returning homes are the bare minimum. You can see these same actions in Jilib but that does not mean the leaders in Jilib are righteous. My main issue with the ICU is allowing radical extremists such as Dahir Aweys and ayrow to hold positions of power within the movement, as well as its expansionist nature. The ICU had a nationalist agenda to rule the whole of Somalia. Unless the ICU met with relevant stakeholders from the northern regions and both sides came to a uniform agreement that it should govern areas outside its control in southern Somalia, then having plans to do so makes the agenda expansionist and immoral imo, especially when there was relative peace in those regions. Yes, the radicals were a minority but their ideology was still tolerated by the moderates, and Dahir Aweys held one of the most influential positions within the ICU. When the Ethiopians invaded, which I do not support, it led to AS, made up of ex-ICU members, gaining momentum and spiralling into what it is today.

Spoiler: Extremist figures

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Spoiler: ICU goals.

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After Itixaad lost to Ethiopia, they decided to give up Jihad and focus on indoctrination for the masses - most of whom were sufi and fiercely opposed Salafi thought.
Soon after, they started to get rich and became businessmen. They established the ICU to protect their assets. And funded Hassan Dahir and Ceyrow (two guys who had fought in Afghanistan, were from the most powerful clan in Somalia at the time).
Things got out of control from there.
The salafi businessmen just wanted money. They abused funds/aid sent from the gulf region and barely distributed it among the needy. They did use it, however, to spread Salafism. Fat fuckers.

 

[Afar indhood]

TPLF condom

View attachment 363281

Unlike you, this doesn't bother me.
I don't like this mf'er.

Spoiler

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[Zak12]

International jihadists

Such as? All the big figures were focused on domestic affairs. It was Godane who first took international jihad seriously

because they were preparing and training for years

To fight CIA backed warlords and ENDF scum? Good on them.

It says it all that the supposedly extremist ICU was allowed to join FGS.

 

[Afar indhood]

Such as? All the big figures were focused on domestic affairs. It was Godane who first took international jihad seriously

To fight CIA backed warlords and ENDF scum? Good on them.

It says it all that the supposedly extremist ICU was allowed to join FGS.

The guys who bombed the US embassy in Nairobi. Ceyrow and Xassan Dahir, Godane. Bunch of other cadcads that I can't recall now. Some guy named fadal.

Godane was a late-Comer. Ceyrow was the most important figure (first alshabab member killed by the US) after Hassan Dahir. Sharif was a magac-u-yaal. Not a jihadist but given position because he was Abgaal (to dispel qabyaalad accusations)
The rich guys were focused on the domestic parts - the guys returning from Afghanistan and those that got beaten in Gedo wanted more.

The CIA followed the jihadists - they didn't start funding the warlords until 2004-2006.

You guys know nothing about what happened. Maxaad noo xiijineysaan?

 

[Zak12]

I don’t see how it suddenly sprung up and gained momentum solely because of the Ethiopian invasion.

They gained momentum because AS were the only group fighting Ethiopians, their successful counter insurgency was a result of widespread support among Somalis both locally and among the diaspora. That support later died down once ENDF left but by then it was too late and AS had control of the south.

Honestly even comparing 2006-2009 AS to post 2011 AS doesn't make sense because they pretty much were two different organizations after Godane's purges.

The guys who bombed the US embassy in Nairobi. Ceyrow and Xassan Dahir, Godane

No proof btw. Nairobi bombing was by non-Somali Al-Qaeda members.

they didn't start funding the warlords until 2004-2006.

Yes as a result of the post 9/11 hysteria but America was planning to invade Somalia since the early 2000s and the CIA was already active in Somalia since the 90s.

 

[Step a side]

After Itixaad lost to Ethiopia, they decided to give up Jihad and focus on indoctrination for the masses - most of whom were sufi and fiercely opposed Salafi thought.
Soon after, they started to get rich and became businessmen. They established the ICU to protect their assets. And funded Hassan Dahir and Ceyrow (two guys who had fought in Afghanistan, were from the most powerful clan in Somalia at the time).
Things got out of control from there.
The salafi businessmen just wanted money. They abused funds/aid sent from the gulf region and barely distributed it among the needy. They did use it, however, to spread Salafism. Fat fuckers.

You are funny

The ICU was created by local Somali elders (my grandpa being one of them) many of whom had thorough understanding of the sharia in which they were able to take control of law and order right after the civil war. Most of these elders are unknown to the masses

All these figures like Godane, Daahir etc are CIA agents. They got nothing to do with the Islamic courts in its true essence

 

[Afar indhood]

They gained momentum because AS were the only group fighting Ethiopians, their successful counter insurgency was a result of widespread support among Somalis both locally and among the diaspora. That support later died down once ENDF left but by then it was too late and AS had control of the south.

Honestly even comparing 2006-2009 AS to post 2011 AS doesn't make sense because they pretty much were two different organizations after Godane's purges.

View attachment 363283

View attachment 363282


No proof btw. Nairobi bombing was by non-Somali Al-Qaeda members.

Yes as a result of the post 9/11 hysteria but America was planning to invade Somalia since the early 2000s and the CIA was already active in Somalia since the 90s.

Source of the text?
I know the bombers were foreigners but they were hiding in Somalia with salafis - planning to start something.
Why was the US planning to invade Somalia? For what reason? I don't know if there was a genuine plan - but it goes with what I said: Americans follow international jihadis and these guys were in the country, training and raising an army.

 

[Afar indhood]

You are funny

The ICU was created by local Somali elders (my grandpa being one of them) many of whom had thorough understanding of the sharia in which they were able to take control of law and order right after the civil war. Most of these elders are unknown to the masses

All these figures like Godane, Daahir etc are CIA agents. They got nothing to do with the Islamic courts in its true essence

Your grandpa paid Hassan dahir to save him from Qanyare.

Yeah, all of them were Cia agents. They got tiimbaro on their asses. Anyone that I don't like is a horgal.

 

[Zak12]

Source of the text?

I read it from @Idilinaa so I'm not sure

but they were hiding in Somalia with salafis

I imagine Somalia would be an easy place to hide given its status at the time. Its well known that figures like Osama and Saudis themselves tried to inject radicalism into Somalia after the state collapsed.

Why was the US planning to invade Somalia? For what reason?

Post-9/11 initiative to subdue Islamic organizations they viewed as a threat. May be related to Israel as well. As you can see, they have already succeeded with 5 other countries, with Iran being the only one left.

US ‘plans to attack seven Muslim states’

Presidential hopeful General Wesley Clark says the White House devised a five-year plan after the 9/11 strikes to attack seven majority-Muslim countries.

www.aljazeera.com

Listen, we can disagree on whether or not if the ICU had actual extremist elements, goals of taking over Somalia or being a business front to protect assets, its fine to be skeptical but what I hope all of us can agree on is that the Ethiopian invasion was an unmitigated disaster, a nuclear button by America and AY in a misguided attempt to bring peace to Somalia. In that regard I think its pointless to argue whether or not the ICU would have turned into Shabab 2.0 because that is focusing on hypotheticals and the simple reality is that the invasion did far more damage than good and Somalia is still suffering from the consequences of it.

 

[Medeea]

Mooryanimo? Violent Unabashed Clan Cleansing? The disintegration of inter-clan trust? Or are you choosing to ignore this?

Ignore??
Barre started all the stuff you’re talking about. The so-called rebels were really his former buddies in the military who just followed in his footsteps

That allowed them to thrive and flourish. People act is AS came out of nowhere. They always were going to build up and eventually try and take over. Except the civil war wouldn't be FGS Vs AS it would be Moderate ICU Vs Radical ICU.

Yup but only one of the courts were actually extremist. You can add Aweys too if you want. So, 2 out of the 14 courts could be described as extremist. The rest were mostly moderate. Sooner or later, they would’ve duked it out among themselves. But the moderates were more likely to win.

They gained momentum because AS were the only group fighting Ethiopians, their successful counter insurgency was a result of widespread support among Somalis both locally and among the diaspora. That support later died down once ENDF left but by then it was too late and AS had control of the south.

Honestly even comparing 2006-2009 AS to post 2011 AS doesn't make sense because they pretty much were two different organizations after Godane's purges.

View attachment 363283

View attachment 363282


No proof btw. Nairobi bombing was by non-Somali Al-Qaeda members.

Yes as a result of the post 9/11 hysteria but America was planning to invade Somalia since the early 2000s and the CIA was already active in Somalia since the 90s.

Since ’99 actually. Israel gave DC a list of 7 Muslim countries to invade and install Israel friendly puppet governments. Somalia was one of those 7 countries. 9/11 was a godsend to both Israel and the US military industrial complex.
ICUs were low iq no doubt, but with the likes of AY around, the invasion would’ve took place regardless.

90% of this Afar guy’s stuff are pure fabrication. But I’m too lazy to respond. Keep up the good work though.

 

[Zak12]

ICUs were low iq no doubt

They were far from perfect but they did a good job bringing peace and stability. You can tell because they had supporters from Somaliland and Puntland who volunteered to fight for them. Unfortunately they rose up in the wrong time so yeah they would have been invaded regardless of what they did.