This must be the excuses your people use to justify 30+ years of failure as a state. AUN Mohamed Siyaad Barre greatest thing that ever happened to these cursed people.
In your opinion which leader made Somalia worse?
- Thread starter Sigmundd
- Start date
That allowed them to thrive and flourish. People act is AS came out of nowhere. They always were going to build up and eventually try and take over. Except the civil war wouldn't be FGS Vs AS it would be Moderate ICU Vs Radical ICU.
Keep it a boqol
VIP
you are the first hawiye poster here i’ve seen that actually had a objective take on AY’s presidency
Excuses excuses Siad Barre was a saint compared to Gaddafi,Saddam and Assad in every which way and those countries are almost recovered to pre war levels or recovering at a rapid rate, did Rwanda with a million and half dead in a genocide descend on 40 years of chaos? Somalis always have excuses not solutions
You can divide these leaders into three categories. And move on from there.
Category 1
Category 2: Severe Limitations --> Reason for leniency.
Category 3: Net negative leaders --> They fall in here, if they fail scrutiny.
Category 3
Category 1
- Legitimate leaders
- Controlled all of Somalia
- When they took office no group was contesting their authority.
- Products of their time
- Controlled what was left to them
- Dependent on foreign forces for legitimacy(little room for independent policy)
- Hostile groups openly contesting their authority
Category 2: Severe Limitations --> Reason for leniency.
Category 3: Net negative leaders --> They fall in here, if they fail scrutiny.
Category 3
- Outright destructive leaders
- Did unnecessary things
- No major achievements
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Don't mix ICU and today's Shabab, not the same thing.
Somalis had solutions, ICU was one of them and our Cadow (UK, US & Ethiopia) seeing that we were fixing our shit up decided to invade
ICU if you can even call them a solution, came in 2006 what were Somalis doing for 15 years without a legitimate government who is to blame for that?
What extremist courts are you referring to ?
Abdullahi Yusuf (LA) even got his home back during the ICU era. The ICU had a whole separate court dedicated to giving people back their properties that they had lost during the warlord era.
The ICU is the closest thing to a government we had since '91, it had legitimate public support all over Somalia and bringed order, peace and justice back afte a decade of warlords running around doing xasuq, tugniimo and xoog everywhere.
The ICU even banned discrimination against minorities.
They not only brought peace and security to the south after 15 years of anarchy but they also tackled societal ills such as discrimination: They were working towards an end to the brutalization of minorities, something the western regime is still unable today to this day.
Soomaali Islaam oo kaliya ayaa midayn karta.
Warlords. But before blaming the lion for eating a man, one must first ask, who opened the cage ?
Step a side
VIP
@Barkhadle1520 you have said nothing but facts. Keep dropping the bomb on these kids. ICU was legit and the best thing that had happened to Somalia after the 91 civil war. So many of my family members died fighting against US backed Xabashi scum and their Somali puppets.
AY was used by Zenawi to appoint his tplf agent Gheedi, even the parliament chair fight in Kenya was Qanyares side fighting the Tplf coalition
AY was used by Zenawi to appoint his tplf agent Gheedi, even the parliament chair fight in Kenya was Qanyares side fighting the Tplf coalition
Step a side
VIP
My uncles and cousins fought heavily under ICU and clan assaults on the Ethiopians in Xamar Jadiid, Bakaaro till Garoonka. Guul to my Somali brethren who choose to be on the right side of history. Special type of hell fire waiting for those that allied themselves with the Xabash.
The two predecessors of the TFG were also controlled by Ethiopia and the US, we basically basically lost our independence with the fall of the ICU.@Barkhadle1520 you have said nothing but facts. Keep dropping the bomb on these kids. ICU was legit and the best thing that had happened to Somalia after the 91 civil war. So many of my family members died fighting against US backed Xabashi scum and their Somali puppets.
AY was used by Zenawi to appoint his tplf agent Gheedi, even the parliament chair fight in Kenya was Qanyares side fighting the Tplf coalition
War I thought N&N money dried up. And with it the larping mashruuc. Wali way socotaa ileen. Epic gunnimo to pretend to be from another clan to do red eyed schemes.
@DR OSMAN wallahi Southeners are not the biggest red eyed beasts. You have to do re-evaluation. There are deep undercover operators.
War I thought N&N money dried up. And with it the larping mashruuc. Wali way socotaa ileen. Epic gunnimo to pretend to be from another clan to do red eyed schemes.
@DR OSMAN wallahi Southeners are not the biggest red eyed beasts. You have to do re-evaluation.
Southerners due to environmental favorabilty(instability) have been able to allow their moryans to blossom and flourish unlike other regions in the nation, where they do exist(91 disorder touched every region) bu they do so in very tough social conditions as their weeded out due to more stability. PL tho seems to ensure that our mudug flank remains well connected to it and it's evolving culture for our own well being in the rest of PL.
Their no sitting president in PL that doesn't consult Mudug folks(what r the moryan rackets or new political mashruc flowing from mudug to Hamar now)
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It could be, but I personally think the people down South are generally good folk. Strong government emerges in places were people are generally in need of it.
Societies that tend to face more raids, harsher climates and invasions tend to build stronger institutions. Central regions with the endless Aano qabiil and frequent droughts need more centralized governance and much stronger bureaucracies.
Charles Tilly's famous quote reminds me of this: ''War made the state, and the state made war''.
There is room for instability in South because people have for a very long time survived without the need for centralized Authority to bring justice, communities tend to weed out the mooryaans without the need for bureaucracy.
What do you think of that
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There is quite literally zero proof that the ICU let alone other Islamist groups operating during that time like Al-Ithaad were extreme. Even Dahir Aweys has no real evidence that it was extremist. Reminder that all the extremist allegations were nothing more than calacaal from Zenawi and AY who were desperately trying to find reasons to invade Somalia since they saw it was stabilizing under an ideology they disliked. Bush era America was also similar and did not like seeing Somalia achieving peace under Islamic rule. That is why the CIA was funding warlords in an attempt to stamp out the sharia courts, why they sanctioned remittance organizations like Al-Barakat and why they had plans to destabilize Somalia as early as 2003.
The best way to dispel all this nonsense is to show what Somalia was like pre-2006 and what it was like post-2006.
Both Zenawi and AY had their own reasons for invading Somalia. The former obviously did not want to see a stable Somalia and wanted to keep Ethiopian troops in the south while the latter wanted to rule Mogadishu with an iron fist under his terms and refused to cooperate with Islamists. They came together with that common goal and proceeded to slander the ICU and were given the blessings of the U.S to do so.@Barkhadle1520 you have said nothing but facts. Keep dropping the bomb on these kids. ICU was legit and the best thing that had happened to Somalia after the 91 civil war. So many of my family members died fighting against US backed Xabashi scum and their Somali puppets.
AY was used by Zenawi to appoint his tplf agent Gheedi, even the parliament chair fight in Kenya was Qanyares side fighting the Tplf coalition
The best part is that AY did not accomplish any of his goals. TFG collapsed after 2009, ENDF ran with their tail between their legs and AY lost power soon afterwards with the former ICU leaders leading FGS. He would later apologize to Somalis for all the suffering that happened and asked for forgiveness.
Abdulahi yusuf probably deserves the larger share of the blame. But the more i think about it the icu guys were also retarded . They somehow didnt see the writing on the wall and and didnt try to negotiate and compromise. America had already invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. It was clear the u.s was on a war path and the only people claiming they were an Islamist govt was them.
Literally every member of alshabab was a member of the ICU: Abu Zübeyr, Ceyrow, Axmed Madoobe, Xassan Türki, Afghani, Mukhtar Roobow. Alshabab fighters were the backbone of the ICU - that's why there no longer ICU-type figures still in the game.
LOL. They didn't shut down cinemas because parents wanted it. ICU came into public first when they drove past Mooryaans and arrested alfaghi workers - way before the warlords decided to fight them. They banned qat, certain hair styles, and mony other stuff.
They had support among certain clans and salafists. They were opposed by most people - either for clan or sectarian reasons.
What clan am I pretending to be? I don't quite get your dig. I'm too fob-y for it.
War I thought N&N money dried up. And with it the larping mashruuc. Wali way socotaa ileen. Epic gunnimo to pretend to be from another clan to do red eyed schemes.
@DR OSMAN wallahi Southeners are not the biggest red eyed beasts. You have to do re-evaluation. There are deep undercover operators.
