In your opinion which leader made Somalia worse?
- Thread starter Sigmundd
- Start date
balanbalis
"Ignore" button warrior
My personal biases say Siyaad Baare
Sigmundd
BOO HOO
Yes he's the one that comes to my mind. But I would say whoever is responsible for al shabab is the worst since they hindered real progress from happening.
Siad Barre is the Undisputed #1. I don’t blame the rebels just like I don’t blame AS now. They were symptoms, not the root cause.
2. Cali Mahdi – For dismantling the SNA. The army was still mostly intact(especially in the north) after Barre. Compare that to Meles who didn’t dissolve the ENDF even though it was full of genocidal Amharas.
3. Abdullahi Yusuf - The US wanted the ICU gone, but Meles was against a full invasion. It likely wouldn’t have happened without AY pushing for it. Not saying I’m a fan of ICU but there model was batter than whatever xaar AY(more like Meles) implemented.
4. Cigaal - one of the very few seasoned statesman Somalia had. He could’ve built a real institutional based functioning state in the North. Something Xamar could’ve later copyed. But he was too clannish and short-sighted.
5. HSM (first term) – Sheikh sharif and farmajo at least had some accomplishments. HSM’s first term was a complete shitshow.
I would’ve put Deni at #5, but he’s just a governor.
2. Cali Mahdi – For dismantling the SNA. The army was still mostly intact(especially in the north) after Barre. Compare that to Meles who didn’t dissolve the ENDF even though it was full of genocidal Amharas.
3. Abdullahi Yusuf - The US wanted the ICU gone, but Meles was against a full invasion. It likely wouldn’t have happened without AY pushing for it. Not saying I’m a fan of ICU but there model was batter than whatever xaar AY(more like Meles) implemented.
4. Cigaal - one of the very few seasoned statesman Somalia had. He could’ve built a real institutional based functioning state in the North. Something Xamar could’ve later copyed. But he was too clannish and short-sighted.
5. HSM (first term) – Sheikh sharif and farmajo at least had some accomplishments. HSM’s first term was a complete shitshow.
I would’ve put Deni at #5, but he’s just a governor.
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balanbalis
"Ignore" button warrior
He was handed a rising Somalia and threw it to the ground
Globglogabgalab
I am the Globglogabgalab, and I love books
Barre no question
He was never handed anything rising, he took power after the President was assassinated what are you waffling about in 1969 the government was wildly corrupt and unpopular stop the revisionism you can criticize Barre post 1977 Kacaan government was awesome before that
There's no such thing as a clan state. Nobody is suffering due to federalism. It's the quite opposite really. Centralizing power in Somalia creates instability and chaos.
Not gonna lie, the ICU was about to fix all our problems, it looked like we would have another strong government that all Somali people could stand behind. But Abdullahi Yusuf had to ruin it. To be honest he's a strong contendant for the podium.
Mooryanimo? Violent Unabashed Clan Cleansing? The disintegration of inter-clan trust? Or are you choosing to ignore this?
Siyaad Barre without a doubt.
Cali and Caydiid are a close second.
Cabdiqaasim was the best. Refused to wage wars against clans that opposed him. He was also not a clannist - refusing to side with Caydiid.
I know we like to blame AY because he "brought the Ethiopians" but that's not really the case. He didn't. The Americans did.
After his election he called for international peacekeeping because he could not raise an army to defeat the warlords. What else could he have done?
AY deserves rehabilitation. And we need to stop blaming him for the Ethiopian invasion.
Cali and Caydiid are a close second.
Cabdiqaasim was the best. Refused to wage wars against clans that opposed him. He was also not a clannist - refusing to side with Caydiid.
Alshabab is a remnant of Al-Itixaad. They had training camps across Somalia way before he was elected. Only the name was new.
I know we like to blame AY because he "brought the Ethiopians" but that's not really the case. He didn't. The Americans did.
After his election he called for international peacekeeping because he could not raise an army to defeat the warlords. What else could he have done?
AY deserves rehabilitation. And we need to stop blaming him for the Ethiopian invasion.
Well compared to what we have now, the Somalia he inherited was pretty good
Abdullahi Yusuf was the duly elected President. I think we all have to recognize that, he is a deeply flawed person however he was the rightfully elected President.
Certain people didn't like the decided to go into a closed room and throw their support behind a small movement on the rise so as to deny him legitimacy.
What he did after he is certainly to blame for but ICU was an unrecognised regionally based movement that was in open rebellion of the duly elected President of the Federal Republic of Somalia.
and the Somalia he left behind could've easily formed a new government and elect leaders. All of the framework to create a new government was there. But the cawaans didn't want Goverment, they wanted anarchy and an end to civilized rule.
Abdullahi Yusuf is could arguably compete with Siad Barre, he was literally the first president to be guarded by Ethiopian troops in his official residence at Baidoa. This was in July 2006 when the Islamic Courts Union only had control of Banadir and the two Shabelles but AY was so scared out of his mind he called for Ethiopian troops to personally guard his quarters.
Siad Barre did far worse than just material damage, the fitna he caused is the greatest in Somali history, and we are still suffering its consequences today. Post-Siad Somalia has been a domino effect, with Siad as the first tile to fall.
Because there was no army to protect him and no other nation was willing to provide protection.
Gaal dil, gartiisana sii. He had no power. He had no army.
The ICU wasn't all ICU. It had international jihadists wanted by the US. If they were just Somalis trying to rule Somalia, no one would have bothered.
He couldn't even set foot in Xamar (like Cabdiqaasim) before the ICU.
It was the ICU (alshabab) that provoked the invasion.
The same ICU that had extremist courts were going to “fix all our problems”.
