I personally do not agree with apostasy laws

[Amk]

The prophet knew about the zanadiqa that were around him, he didn’t kill, since they were pretending to be Muslims, if ridda was really about leaving the deen he would have killed the munafiqiin. But he didn’t he even prayed on the their leader when he died as Muslim, abdallah ibn abi salool, a visous man, anti Islam, munafiqq to the bone when he died, the prophet prayed on him, even Omar r was angry about that.
Once he was leading 1/3 of Muslim army, and when the battle started he left saying “for what he we are killing ourselves for?”
Many times asked to cut almujiriin economally in the madina

U just lied a million times again
1. Allah revealed a verse after that incident
And never (O Muhammad ﷺ) pray (janazah) for any of them (hypocrites) who dies, nor stand at his grave. Certainly, they disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger, and died while they were fasiqun (transgressors)” [Tawba: 84].
to correct the prophet ﷺ.
Now if u r telling me the prophet ﷺstill prayed over the munafiqoon after this u r rejecting Allahs verse and lying against the prophet ﷺ
2.The reason why no munifiqoon were killed was not bc they are a free from the ruling

Jabir ibn Abdullah reported: A man came to the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, at Al-Ji’ranah from Hunayn and there was some silver in the pocket of Bilal. The Messenger of Allah took a handful from it and distributed it among the people. The man said to him, “O Muhammad, be just!” The Prophet said, “Woe to you! Who will be just if I am not just? You would fail and lose if I were not just.” Umar ibn al-Khattab said, “O Messenger of Allah, let me kill this hypocrite!” The Prophet said, “I seek refuge in Allah that the people would say I am killing my companions. Verily, this man and his companions will recite the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats. They will leaves Islam just as an arrow passes through its target.”

In another narration, the Prophet said, “Leave him alone, lest people say Muhammad is killing his companions.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1063

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Muslim
Its clear in this hadith why they didnt kill the munifiqoon.
U lie so much u should fear Allah. U cant keep denying clear cut evidence

 

[Aurelian]

@Amk
Muhammad ibn al-Qari reported: A man came to Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, from Abu Musa al-Ashari. Umar asked him about the people and he informed him. Then, Umar said, “Do you have any recent news?” Abu Musa said, “Yes, a man turned back to unbelief after his Islam.” Umar said, “What have you done with him?” Abu Musa said, “We let him approach and we struck his neck.” Umar said, “Did you not imprison him for three days and feed him each day with bread and call him to repent and return to the command of Allah?” Then, Umar said, “O Allah, I was not present and I did not command it and I was not pleased when I heard it!”

Source: al-Muwaṭṭa’ 1397


Anas ibn Malik reported: I said, “O commander of the faithful, some people have turned renegade against Islam and joined the idolaters. What is to be done to them other than killing?” Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said, “That I take hold of them on peaceful terms is more beloved to me than everything over which the sun rises, from the horizon to the zenith.” I said, “O commander of the faithful, what would you do if you took hold of them?” Umar said, “I would offer them the door through which they exited, that they would enter it again. If they did so, I would accept it from them; otherwise I would keep them in prison.”

Source: Muṣannaf ‘Abd al-Razzāq 18696

 

[Amk]

Muhammad ibn al-Qari reported: A man came to Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, from Abu Musa al-Ashari. Umar asked him about the people and he informed him. Then, Umar said, “Do you have any recent news?” Abu Musa said, “Yes, a man turned back to unbelief after his Islam.” Umar said, “What have you done with him?” Abu Musa said, “We let him approach and we struck his neck.” Umar said, “Did you not imprison him for three days and feed him each day with bread and call him to repent and return to the command of Allah?” Then, Umar said, “O Allah, I was not present and I did not command it and I was not pleased when I heard it!”

Yes give him 3 days to revert back. What do u think happens after those 3 days? death

 

[warshuush]

I agree with everything writen on the quran

Ex muslim do sooo much damage to the comunity once they leave, its like they make it theor life to bash Islam everyday

have never seen a ex muslim , exit islam peacfully and moved on

So weired to be obssesed with the very thing you hate so much

 

[Aurelian]

Yes give him 3 days to revert back. What do u think happens after those 3 days? death

O commander of the faithful, what would you do if you took hold of them?” Umar said, “I would offer them the door through which they exited, that they would enter it again. If they did so, I would accept it from them; otherwise I would keep them in prison.”
He clearly said he would let them go, once did that, he was against the حروب الردة" etc

 

[Amk]

O commander of the faithful, what would you do if you took hold of them?” Umar said, “I would offer them the door through which they exited, that they would enter it again. If they did so, I would accept it from them; otherwise I would keep them in prison.”

U cant comment on one specific situation and apply it to everything
There are clear ahaadith which tell ppl to kill ppl who change their religion
Ali ibn taalib killed ppl who changed their religion
If u want to understand the context and understanding of why Umar RA said this u have to ask a scholar bc they devoted their whole life to fiqh
So please give me any scholar from any of the madhaahib who believe that apostasy is not punishable by death

 

[Aurelian]

U cant comment on one specific situation and apply it to everything
There are clear ahaadith which tell ppl to kill ppl who change their religion
Ali ibn taalib killed ppl who changed their religion
If u want to understand the context and understanding of why Umar RA said this u have to ask a scholar bc they devoted their whole life to fiqh
So please give me any scholar from any of the madhaahib who believe that apostasy is not punishable by death

Yes, that Hadith of changing religion, what if one change it from Hinduism to Islam? Kill

 

[Amk]

Yes, that Hadith of changing religion, what if one change it from Hinduism to Islam? Kill

Brother, ur obviously only debating right now to debate for the sake of it, u clearly r not using ur brain
The hadith obviously means changing out of Islam
Again give me one scholar who believes what u believe

 

[Bundasliga]

INgl u seem very confused. Im not going to coment on why u believe in Islam, bc I find most ppl who believe in Islam is just cos their parents were muslim, and they give weak justifications for it, even tho for example let me ask u
Have u ever read the whole seerah? Could u explain the seerah properly to ppl? Do u know about the sahaba? Have u ever read about the Quran, its revelation, how it was preserved, etc..?
U can say u believe the prophet ﷺ was our last prophet, but in actuality how much do u know about him?
I mean loving to pray and fast doesnt make a religion true.
anyway thats just for u to think about.

Theirs no such thing as "their truth", theirs only one truth.

Killing someone for leaving the deen doesn't even benefit muslims. It's also not the only option for apostasy & it was more as punishment for treason rather than forcing people to stat Muslim. As the other guy already quoted from the the Quran "For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

 

[Aurelian]

Brother, ur obviously only debating right now to debate for the sake of it, u clearly r not using ur brain
The hadith obviously means changing out of Islam
Again give me one scholar who believes what u believe

The alazhar extending the time to revert from 3 days to forever

second Othman intervened more than once to prevent the execution of a murtad, why Othman prevent that? And why it was ok to look other way if it was legitimate to execute murtadiin

again alshabaab would have killed Othman on the first day

 

[Amk]

The alazhar extending the time to revert from 3 days to forever

second Othman intervened more than once to prevent the execution of a murtad, why Othman prevent that? And why it was ok to look other way if it was legitimate to execute murtadiin

again alshabaab would have killed Othman on the first day

alazhar is not a scholar
U cant make inferences on what the sahaba done, u have to get a scholar to do that, stop using ur own interpretation

 

[Amk]

The alazhar extending the time to revert from 3 days to forever

second Othman intervened more than once to prevent the execution of a murtad, why Othman prevent that? And why it was ok to look other way if it was legitimate to execute murtadiin

again alshabaab would have killed Othman on the first day

Give me any of the 4 sunni schools of thought that believe there is no apostasy law for killing.

 

[Bundasliga]

Give me any of the 4 sunni schools of thought that believe there is no apostasy law for killing.

Death is not the only option

 

[Amk]

Death is not the only option

Yh they can be flown out to another country,

 

[Bundasliga]

@Xoxoxo

 

[Amk]

@Xoxoxo

Ngl u shouldnt listen to dr shabir Ali he has alot of deviant views

 

[Deleted L]

It’s literally the consensus of 99.9% of all scholars (May Allah be pleased with them all) that an Apostate, one who leaves the religion of Islam deserves to be executed and they base their evidence on clear Authentic Hadiths and how the blessed companions رضي الله عنهم of the Prophet ﷺ understood and practiced it. There are different of opinions between the scholars on minor details, such as should a female Apostate be executed? If i’m not mistaken, The Hanafis don’t believe a female Apostate should be executed while the other scholars believe she should be executed. Other minor differences exist such as how long should the waiting period be for an Apostate to return back to Islam. The Apostate who deserves to be executed are those who publicly leave the religion, even if they are not hostile against the Muslim community or Islam, they should be detained, given a waiting period to revert to Islam, the scholars would be there to answer their doubts to the best of their ability and if the Apostate still refuses to revert to Islam after their waiting period then the Muslim judicial authorities in a Muslim land can execute them.

Just to be clear, nobody here is calling for vigilance violence. Vigilance violence is prohibited in our religion and only the Muslim judicial authorities (usually the ruler or the Muslim judge) have the right to carry out hadd punishments, in a land ruled by the Shariah.

It was narrated from Anas that: Ibn 'Abbas said: "The Messenger of Allah ﷺ said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Sunan an-Nasa’i 4064)

Narrated `Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to `Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn `Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." (Sahih al-Bukhari 6922)

Narrated 'Ikrimah: That 'Ali burnt some people who apostasized from Islam. This news reached Ibn 'Abbas, so he said: "If it were me I would have killed them according to the statement of Messenger of Allah (ﷺ). The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Whoever changes his religion then kill him.' And I would not have burned them because the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Do not punish with the punishment of Allah.' So this reached 'Ali, and he said: "Ibn 'Abbas has told the truth." (Jami at-Tirmidhi 1458)

It was narrated from 'Ikrimah: "Some people apostatized after accepting Islam, and 'Ali burned them with fire. Ibn 'Abbas said: 'If it had been me, I would not have burned them; the Messenger of Allah ﷺ said: 'No one should be punished with the punishment of Allah.' If it had been me, I would have killed them; the Messenger of Allah ﷺ said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Sunan an-Nasa'i 4060)

 

[Omar del Sur]

Even Omar didn’t execute murtads, and denounced it all. alshabaab would have executed Omar r for that

actually, that is not true. Umar Ibn Al Khattab did apply the law for apostasy as Sheikh Fawzan discusses at 9:02.

So Umar Ibn Al Khattab himself believed in the ruling on apostates.

Furthermore, what happened in Al-Andalus? to the ones who Catholics call the martyrs of Cordoba?

"The Martyrs of Córdoba were forty-eight Christian martyrs who were executed under the rule of Muslim administration in the Iberian Peninsula. In this period of time the area was known as Al-Andalus. The hagiography describes in detail the executions of the martyrs for capital violations of Islamic law, including apostasy and blasphemy. The martyrdoms related by Eulogius (the only contemporary source) took place between 851 and 859, which according to the Maliki judges of Andalusia, broke the treaty signed between Muslims and their Christian subjects."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_of_C%C3%B3rdoba

so this was over a thousand years ago. they got what they got for becoming apostates.

I wonder what other aspects of Islam you don't believe in.

 

[Bundasliga]

It’s literally the consensus of 99.9% of all scholars (May Allah be pleased with them all) that an Apostate, one who leaves the religion of Islam deserves to be executed and they base their evidence on clear Authentic Hadiths and how the blessed companions رضي الله عنهم of the Prophet ﷺ understood and practiced it. There are different of opinions between the scholars on minor details, such as should a female Apostate be executed? If i’m not mistaken, The Hanafis don’t believe a female Apostate should be executed while the other scholars believe she should be executed. Other minor differences exist such as how long should the waiting period be for an Apostate to return back to Islam. The Apostate who deserves to be executed are those who publicly leave the religion, even if they are not hostile against the Muslim community or Islam, they should be detained, given a waiting period to revert to Islam, the scholars would be there to answer their doubts to the best of their ability and if the Apostate still refuses to revert to Islam after their waiting period then the Muslim judicial authorities in a Muslim land can execute them.

Just to be clear, nobody here is calling for vigilance violence. Vigilance violence is prohibited in our religion and only the Muslim judicial authorities (usually the ruler or the Muslim judge) have the right to carry out hadd punishments, in a land ruled by the Shariah.

It was narrated from Anas that: Ibn 'Abbas said: "The Messenger of Allah ﷺ said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Sunan an-Nasa’i 4064)

Narrated `Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to `Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn `Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." (Sahih al-Bukhari 6922)

Narrated 'Ikrimah: That 'Ali burnt some people who apostasized from Islam. This news reached Ibn 'Abbas, so he said: "If it were me I would have killed them according to the statement of Messenger of Allah (ﷺ). The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Whoever changes his religion then kill him.' And I would not have burned them because the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Do not punish with the punishment of Allah.' So this reached 'Ali, and he said: "Ibn 'Abbas has told the truth." (Jami at-Tirmidhi 1458)

It was narrated from 'Ikrimah: "Some people apostatized after accepting Islam, and 'Ali burned them with fire. Ibn 'Abbas said: 'If it had been me, I would not have burned them; the Messenger of Allah ﷺ said: 'No one should be punished with the punishment of Allah.' If it had been me, I would have killed them; the Messenger of Allah ﷺ said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Sunan an-Nasa'i 4060)

Can you Bring some evidence from the quran

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Amk
Muhammad ibn al-Qari reported: A man came to Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, from Abu Musa al-Ashari. Umar asked him about the people and he informed him. Then, Umar said, “Do you have any recent news?” Abu Musa said, “Yes, a man turned back to unbelief after his Islam.” Umar said, “What have you done with him?” Abu Musa said, “We let him approach and we struck his neck.” Umar said, “Did you not imprison him for three days and feed him each day with bread and call him to repent and return to the command of Allah?” Then, Umar said, “O Allah, I was not present and I did not command it and I was not pleased when I heard it!”

Source: al-Muwaṭṭa’ 1397

yes according to the sharia this is an indication that they are given three days to repent, not that the law isn't there if they refuse.

this was the view of Shafi- that they be given three days. it's you that tries to come and totally change things to suit your Westernized thinking.