I’m a colorist because Iman is my ideal black woman.

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

Never have i ever been called black nor is it ever used here where i live. You'd be laughed at if you call yourself black here. This is most likely an america problem has nothing to do with the rest us. I've always been called either a somali or an african by friend and co-workers.

It's somali from murica projecting on the rest of us. Imagine me calling you the global southist or a sub-sahran because that what we call somali here. I really don't care what you call us somalis cause at the end of the day i introduce myself however i see fit.

Well I livei europe and have the exact opposite experience. There aren't that many somali or black people in general where I live so people just generally call me black or more likely african, I don't think being black is like an important part of my identity obviously but being of darker complexion as all somali I accept I will be vieweed as black by society. If I or any somali would deny this we just look delusional.

 

[Garaad diinle]

Im talking about most western societies. I know not all of them utilise the mentioned racial terms. But the most prominent examples are, USA, UK, Canada, France, Netherlands and Spain and Germany a little less but it's still more or less present.

Wallahi if i were called black in america or any other place where it's used i won't compline why cause when in rome do as the romans do. The thing is not all of us live in a place where this matter and you've got abdis generalizing all somalis living in the west. this is a reginal problem and doesn't concern every somali. You can't generalize.

 

[Garaad diinle]

Well I livei europe and have the exact opposite experience. There aren't that many somali or black people in general where I live so people just generally call me black or more likely african, I don't think being black is like an important part of my identity obviously but being of darker complexion as all somali I accept I will be vieweed as black by society. If I or any somali would deny this we just look delusional.

Well walaal my skin tone is similar to that of indians so shouldn't i be called a brown man? Well if you were called black and are satisfied by this label be my guest. I on the other hand won't go the extra mile and introduce myself as a black man rather i would educate people on who we are where we live and how distinct we really are.

We literally came from africa the continent with the most diverse population. Nigeria alone has 500 languages according to some sources do you think all sub-saharan africans look the same? Do you see asian people calling themselves yellow people? Would you call africa a country if people in the west did so? Wallahi you do you but know this that not every somali can relate to your experience.

 

[Khaem]

View attachment 116740
race is “the grouping of humans based on shared physical or social categories generally viewed as distinct by general society.”Black is just a category within this relatively simple system.
Throughout the world, black doesn’t just mean west/South African, all it means is that you’re sub Saharan african and have darker brown skin, and somalis check both of those boxes as a whole. If we were to be apart of another race, what would we even be? Cushitic isn’t a race, East African isn’t a race, horn African isn’t a race. Black, White, Asian, Pacific Islander, and Native American r the only choices you have (pls don’t say Hispanic is a race cause it isn’t!!)
black is a race, Somali is an ethnicity, not “skin color” classification really lmaoo

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[Khaem]

Well walaal my skin tone is similar to that of indians so shouldn't i be called a brown man? Well if you were called black and are satisfied by this label be my guest. I on the other hand won't go the extra mile and introduce myself as a black man rather i would educate people on who we are where we live and how distinct we really are.

We literally came from africa the continent with the most diverse population. Nigeria alone has 500 languages according to some sources do you think all sub-saharan africans look the same? Do you see asian people calling themselves yellow people? Would you call africa a country if people in the west did so? Wallahi you do you but know this that not every somali can relate to your experience.

Completely agree. i don't see why people can't accept Africa is diverse, people are willing to differentiate between Spanish and Italians despite speaking nearly the same language but can't do the same between a Nigerian and a Somali even though they have literally nothing in common, not even looks.

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

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Whether or not you wish to say you're black I don't care but to say "Black" is something associated with west Africans is straight wrong. Black has been used in the west for centuries now to refer to the Darker skinned people who inhabit the Sub-Saharan region of the continent. It has nothing to do with West Africa.

Also, Im quite torn on associating the origin of the Black race with victimhood, slavery, and one homogenous culture when it's far from that. First of all is that the concept of a black race was not constructed on the specific tickbox of "victimhood", not even partly. Yeah I guess in the times of these racial concepts being perpetuated, the common way of thought was "blacks are inferior" but "victimhood" wasn't something that stood as a feature of the concept for a Black race.

Second is slavery which I don't even need to talk about for longer than 5 seconds. Every people in every square kilometer of this planet have experienced slavery at some point in their history. White people and Somalis are most definitely not an exception. However, let's just say you're talking about the trans-Atlantic trade in specific (which even then wasn't a fundamental feature or line in which Europeans used to divide Black from Non-Black), there are still hundreds of millions of people that today in the west fall into the Racial concept of "Black" yet they had no ancestors who were victims of the trans-Atlantic slave trade with many millions of those same people probably having ancestors that took slaves themselves.

Lastly is culture and this is what makes me seriously think you might be incorrectly assuming Black = West African/AA which it doesn't despite AAs being pretty much the core of what you could consider "Black culture". Black culture is something that can be observed through many different lenses those being the culture of African Americans, the African diaspora in the Caribbean or maybe just the Urban culture of African immigrants in European countries living in lower-income households. If you want to even reach you can even put down the number of Sub-Saharan African cultures that exist as "Black Culture". The point is there is no one united black culture. And even if there was an understanding of what makes something "Black culture" that would just complement the original ideas that more or less outlined who was Black and who wasn't. Black culture is its own complication unrelated to understanding simple principles that were originally set down to outline the concept of a Black race.

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

Your not somali I guess?
Ok tell me your reasoning I believe we probably share the same reasoning because I don't think anyone should be identifying as black with the exception of African Americans.

Black is a destructive term for African people and it ignores and sweeps over the incredible cultural diversity and rich history of the African continent and its many diverse people. It has been used as a tool to mobilize harmful ideologies and has been a cursed label put upon us as Africans. Science does not stand by it nor should we. However, I believe we have no choice. And not that we have no choice because we can't do something about it (we definitely can), but because in much of the Western world, race is a big thing, everything is about race whether you want it to be or not.

I could choose to say "I'm not black I'm African and (insert specific African ethnic group)" but it won't change the struggles I will face living in a country where people are very different from me and have a history of not being the most respectful to people who belong to the same racial grouping as me. Yeah sure racism has been dealt with very well in some western countries and it's amazing to see the absolute extent of social change some countries have undergone but problems associated with the race of a person are still very prominent and still exist. In the United States, an obvious issue to point to is the Economic disparity (with systemic origins) between Black and White people. The over-policing and culture of police departments as a whole to be excessively violent with Black people and suspects. Racial stereotyping and Prejudice both link to the previous example of police. Then you go to the UK similar issues arise just with very different circumstances but the same root motive being race. My rationale is that we can't fully disassociate from the shitty racial labels we've been given until we can sort out the problems that are built on these labels.

You are free to do as you please with who you are but I personally see that there is purpose in me conforming to this label for the time being, standing in solidarity and unity with other people who have struggled or had the exact same experiences as me in a western country as a "Black person". Stand with the communities I have been pushed to become a part of by the people that have ostracized me and kept me out of their circles. I didn't choose how I'd be treated, western society has created a room full of people and pointed firmly towards it with their other hand on my shoulder directing me "Those are your people, that's where you belong" and with time I learn to realize the group I get thrown into are a people that I can join and unite with so we can work to fix the problems that we face. I am African, I know my origins, I know my ancestors and I know the history of my people, this isn't about slavery or not having a culture, this is me accepting the label they have given me to unite and work with other people given this label so we can stand together and correct how we are treated in Western society. Once we accomplish that to a noteworthy level, I now see this label for what it was the day it was created, useless and of no importance to me. Finally then will I say "Im, not Black, I'm African".

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

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You can have numerous identities. I'm not telling you who to be but you can very easily be a proud ethnic Somali following your Somali cultural and linguistic identity as well as obviously your Somali ancestry but in the same breath you can also conform to the racial options provided and say you're black. You don't have to value one identity as superior to the other.

The reason Black people tend to conform more to their "Black identity" that is tied with belonging to the Black racial grouping is rooted in years and years of history of how Black people find themselves being treated in foreign places, nothing to do with some victim mindset lol.

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

Completely agree. i don't see why people can't accept Africa is diverse, people are willing to differentiate between Spanish and Italians despite speaking nearly the same language but can't do the same between a Nigerian and a Somali even though they have literally nothing in common, not even looks.

A Spaniard and Italian are different but they're both still white lol. Race according to how its founders constructed it, doesn't care about inherent differences and extreme reaches of diversity within populations be it cultural, genetic or linguistic. That is very fucking obvious when you look at Europe which is broadly brushed as "White" despite the numerous branches of languages, different cultures and genetic differences present within the continent. Africa (more specifically Sub-Saharan Africa) is no different. People are broadly assigned "Black". Somalis fall into that grouping. You aren't obliged to conform to the label at all but there is no point trying to argue if you fall into a made-up grouping or not. If race is so irrelevant to you stop trying to prove how you're not related to so and so and just drop the whole thing all at once and say you're Somali.
Race is not accurate, we been knew this bruh, but that's not why people end up taking up their racial identity in the first place.

 

[Khaem]

You can have numerous identities. I'm not telling you who to be but you can very easily be a proud ethnic Somali following your Somali cultural and linguistic identity as well as obviously your Somali ancestry but in the same breath you can also conform to the racial options provided and say you're black. You don't have to value one identity as superior to the other.

The reason Black people tend to conform more to their "Black identity" that is tied with belonging to the Black racial grouping is rooted in years and years of history of how Black people find themselves being treated in foreign places, nothing to do with some victim mindset lol.

I'm not saying the black identity is made from a victim mentality. I just don't think we somalis fit in well with it.
I used to consider myself black growing up, but I kept having situations where I was told by black people that somalis aren't black, and by others saying we are. Eventually I got tired of it and realised we don't really fit in with the black community and I shouldn't force it and instead decided that I am only somali.

Obviously since I live in a western country I abide by its racial classification and say I am black but I don't consider it my identity and i never speak about it apart from here because y'all love this topic too much.

Also, I believe we may have different ideas on what is black, I grew up with very African parents and my idea was that black was simply a Culture of African diaspora in America who decended from the slave trade. And also here in the UK, when someone asks who you are, you just say you're country of origin eg, morrocan, Nigerian, somali, Jamaican, Pakistani ect.
So you never really have situations where you say your race but rather you only introduce yourself with your county of origin unlike the USA so this may be where the confusion between us is at.

I am aware the the world sees me as Black and I'm not gonna go on some crusade to fight against it, and I'm willing to help out black peers with no issue. But I put my Somali identity as superior to any labels attached to me and that's how it remains.

 

[Lone Wanderer]

Completely agree. i don't see why people can't accept Africa is diverse, people are willing to differentiate between Spanish and Italians despite speaking nearly the same language but can't do the same between a Nigerian and a Somali even though they have literally nothing in common, not even looks.

Both Spanish and Italians are considered white, race is made-up but it's just a constructed classification for demographics. It's not that deep. You're not gonna lose your culture.

 

[Hotchick12]

I don’t want to sound mean but like I can’t see the difference between imans daughter and you, you don’t have the Somali typical features

 

[Nilo-Saharan]

I'm not saying the black identity is made from a victim mentality. I just don't think we somalis fit in well with it.
I used to consider myself black growing up, but I kept having situations where I was told by black people that somalis aren't black, and by others saying we are. Eventually I got tired of it and realised we don't really fit in with the black community and I shouldn't force it and instead decided that I am only somali.

To be honest, this is very reasonable, I guess we have very different experiences. Most black people I know and have been around had been very inclusive with their own perception of "Blackness" with some even accepting people who are quarter Black as Black. It changes with every black community to be honest. My experience is that African Americans tend to be the most accepting and inclusive, West African Brits try to restrict the label a little and cut out people they don't want to be a part of it for example mixed-race people and some Caribbeans only consider them and AAs as black and decide its suitable to disassociate the whole of Africa from the Black racial category which is why some Nigerians living abroad in America do the same as Somalis; "I'm not Black I'm Yoruba". But I don't want to generalize, every black person is different and anyways their opinions don't matter ultimately because in the end what the Black race defines (although not very coherent) doesn't change just because Kwame said he doesn't like Somalis.

Also, I believe we may have different ideas on what is black, I grew up with very African parents and my idea was that black was simply a Culture of African diaspora in America who decended from the slave trade. And also here in the UK when someone asks who you are, you just say you're country of origin eg, morrocan, Nigerian, somali, Jamaican, Pakistani ect.

Yeah, that sounds fair enough. Im also familiar with how someone's ethnic origin is of much more importance in the UK than in America. In America, if I try to tell people I'm Sudanese and explain my ethnic origin they'll just cut me off and respond with "So you're black?". But even though this is the case race is still quite a prominent part of British society. The security guard at the local shop doesn't care what region of Africa I'm from or my specific Ethnic/cultural identity, he just sees a Black man in a store who (in his eyes) is most definitely going to try and shoplift and so he feels its necessary to watch my every move and after leaving the store pat me down. The UK is definitely not anywhere Race heavy as America thank God but race still fills an important part of how society functions here and it's also closely tied to quite a few problems as well. Race is definitely a thing here just not to the same degree as America.

But I put my Somali identity as superior to any labels attached to me and that's how it remains.

I strongly respect that.