How tf was Mogadishu a Swahili city state?

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Dudes have gone crazy Harari Swahili Yemenis Persians Arabs Bantu?? Chill wtf.

Muqdisho is a combination of Muuq (Sight) and disho (killer) meaning "Sight killer" in the Somali language, a metaphor for blinding beauty so that means it was founded by Somalis and was always a Somali. If people are gonna claim the city might as well be the ones that control it today

Mogadishu was the biggest wealthiest and most prestigious city on the African coast so I can't blame niggas for trying to claim it

One thing is for certain the city is old (Sarapion). Older than any of the groups claiming it so the founders must have been some extinct Cushitic speakers that lived in the region around 1 AD

Well that explAins why so many people get killed on sight in Muqdisho .

Ps. Muqdisho ,like some many coastal cities in the horn ,was a melting point of Arabs ,Persians , cush-ites and some bant_us (not so much Muqdisho ).

 

[Layth]

so, so far in this thread claims are mogadishu was founded by persians, yemenite jews, omanis, hararis or bantus.

 

[Layth]

@AceofSom @Prince of Hobyo

AceOfSom, Ibn Battuta has certainly met Benadiri families. Sure qabiilkooda dhan ma nu tirinin, they were inhabiting Mogadishu nonetheless. He actually made mention of families who are the ancestors of some of the Asharaaf too.

Tomb inscriptions?

There were also said to have been tomb inscriptions that date to the 8th century, tracing its origins to Arabia: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwiF2PGcq4bSAhUsCMAKHUQCDhgQ6AEIKTAD

If Mogadishu was founded and built by Somalis with no foreign contribution; then I have one question: why aren't there other similar cities in the whole of the Somali peninsula? Other Somali cities, beside Sarapion, were made mention of in Ptolemy's geographia too: e.g. Essina, Malao, Opone, etc. It's literally unfathomable that Mogadishu is the only Somali city that really flourished on a global level without foreign input while everyone else on the peninsula lead simple lives as nomads. Also most importantly, why does Mogadishu resemble other, Swahili coastal cities in East Africa? Don't let your xenophobia cloud your judgement.

I'm not even claiming that Middle Easterners founded Mogadishu; the main point I'm making is that they've contributed greatly to it's development. At least give credit where it's fucking due.

AceofSom, wallahi you cannot hold an intellectual debate. "Waxaan wax la rumayo ma ahan, wa wax gaalada colonistka qoreen" even though they're quoting Muslim sources; seriously you sound like a fucking nacas. You dismiss anything that contradicts your narrative without evidence.

Honestly, I'm not racist nor a supremacist; I acknowledge the intelligence of my Somali brothers. They're surely capable of building great civilisations; but I fucking dislike it when the contributions and relevance of Reer Benadir are downplayed.

With that being said, Somalia ha noolato.

 

[DuctTape]

@AceofSom @Prince of Hobyo

View attachment 12883

View attachment 12884

AceOfSom, Ibn Battuta has certainly met Benadiri families. Sure qabiilkooda dhan ma nu tirinin, they were inhabiting Mogadishu nonetheless. He actually made mention of families who are the ancestors of some of the Asharaaf too.

View attachment 12885

Tomb inscriptions?

View attachment 12886

View attachment 12887

There were also said to have been tomb inscriptions that date to the 8th century, tracing its origins to Arabia: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwiF2PGcq4bSAhUsCMAKHUQCDhgQ6AEIKTAD

If Mogadishu was founded and built by Somalis with no foreign contribution; then I have one question: why aren't there other similar cities in the whole of the Somali peninsula? Other Somali cities, beside Sarapion, were made mention of in Ptolemy's geographia too: e.g. Essina, Malao, Opone, etc. It's literally unfathomable that Mogadishu is the only Somali city that really flourished on a global level without foreign input while everyone else on the peninsula lead simple lives as nomads. Also most importantly, why does Mogadishu resemble other, Swahili coastal cities in East Africa? Don't let your xenophobia cloud your judgement.

I'm not even claiming that Middle Easterners founded Mogadishu; the main point I'm making is that they've contributed greatly to it's development. At least give credit where it's fucking due.

AceofSom, wallahi you cannot hold an intellectual debate. "Waxaan wax la rumayo ma ahan, wa wax gaalada colonistka qoreen" even though they're quoting Muslim sources; seriously you sound like a fucking nacas. You dismiss anything that contradicts your narrative without evidence.

Honestly, I'm not racist nor a supremacist; I acknowledge the intelligence of my Somali brothers. They're surely capable of building great civilisations; but I fucking dislike it when the contributions and relevance of Reer Benadir are downplayed.

With that being said, Somalia ha noolato.

>tfw he actually delivered the sources and made a solid argument while doing it

 

[Young Popeye]

@AceofSom @Prince of Hobyo

View attachment 12883

View attachment 12884

AceOfSom, Ibn Battuta has certainly met Benadiri families. Sure qabiilkooda dhan ma nu tirinin, they were inhabiting Mogadishu nonetheless. He actually made mention of families who are the ancestors of some of the Asharaaf too.

View attachment 12885

Tomb inscriptions?

View attachment 12886

View attachment 12887

There were also said to have been tomb inscriptions that date to the 8th century, tracing its origins to Arabia: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwiF2PGcq4bSAhUsCMAKHUQCDhgQ6AEIKTAD

If Mogadishu was founded and built by Somalis with no foreign contribution; then I have one question: why aren't there other similar cities in the whole of the Somali peninsula? Other Somali cities, beside Sarapion, were made mention of in Ptolemy's geographia too: e.g. Essina, Malao, Opone, etc. It's literally unfathomable that Mogadishu is the only Somali city that really flourished on a global level without foreign input while everyone else on the peninsula lead simple lives as nomads. Also most importantly, why does Mogadishu resemble other, Swahili coastal cities in East Africa? Don't let your xenophobia cloud your judgement.

I'm not even claiming that Middle Easterners founded Mogadishu; the main point I'm making is that they've contributed greatly to it's development. At least give credit where it's fucking due.

AceofSom, wallahi you cannot hold an intellectual debate. "Waxaan wax la rumayo ma ahan, wa wax gaalada colonistka qoreen" even though they're quoting Muslim sources; seriously you sound like a fucking nacas. You dismiss anything that contradicts your narrative without evidence.

Honestly, I'm not racist nor a supremacist; I acknowledge the intelligence of my Somali brothers. They're surely capable of building great civilisations; but I fucking dislike it when the contributions and relevance of Reer Benadir are downplayed.


With that being said, Somalia ha noolato.

I dont think anyone is arguing against Mogadishu being influenced by its neighbors (arab-bantu kingdoms) or citizens of the Arab/persian empires. The topic is who founded it, reer xamar are somalisizd last time i checked or are you still claiming your a separate ethnicity? A hamitic population existed before the persian or arab mess. That population was the Harla and Benadiris speak what resembles Harari today. Mogadishu did business with the Swahili arab run states in the south. For example the Sultanate of Zanzibar or kilwa sultanate in tanzania, so im not surprised if it intermingled culturally with Sultanate of Mogadishu. The so called Bantu swahili states were run by Arabs, this is what led to an arab massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanzibar_Revolution

 

[Young Popeye]

Dudes have gone crazy Harari Swahili Yemenis Persians Arabs Bantu?? Chill wtf.

Muqdisho is a combination of Muuq (Sight) and disho (killer) meaning "Sight killer" in the Somali language, a metaphor for blinding beauty so that means it was founded by Somalis and was always a Somali. If people are gonna claim the city might as well be the ones that control it today

Mogadishu was the biggest wealthiest and most prestigious city on the African coast so I can't blame niggas for trying to claim it

One thing is for certain the city is old (Sarapion). Older than any of the groups claiming it so the founders must have been some extinct Cushitic speakers that lived in the region around 1 AD

who lived in somalia before 100ad "Sometime ago i read a book written by Greek traveller before 100AD, who navigated from red sea of Egypt to southern ocean or what we call today Indian ocean. The Greek explorer wrote extensively about people of the Horn, He divided them three major groups From Port Said in Sudan to Eritrea, Tigray, Gondor to Bet Amhara or modern Wallo he called Jabarti country, from Shewa to northern Hararge he called Orgoba country, from Aduluse to Harar including lowland of Afar, Somali and Oromo country he called that big chank: Harla country".

check this thread from 2009 somnet https://www.somnet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=195515

 

[Ferrari]

There is a history of kismaayo being snatched and conqurred from ethiopian gaalo as recent as 150 years ago. This begs the question, where the hell were this somalis prior to that? Also, how did we have gaalo in kismaayo area and somalis in the Ethiopian area?it'd mean we were completely surrounded by gaalo in all corners.

 

[maestro]

@AceofSom @Prince of Hobyo

View attachment 12883

View attachment 12884

AceOfSom, Ibn Battuta has certainly met Benadiri families. Sure qabiilkooda dhan ma nu tirinin, they were inhabiting Mogadishu nonetheless. He actually made mention of families who are the ancestors of some of the Asharaaf too.

View attachment 12885

Tomb inscriptions?

View attachment 12886

View attachment 12887

There were also said to have been tomb inscriptions that date to the 8th century, tracing its origins to Arabia: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwiF2PGcq4bSAhUsCMAKHUQCDhgQ6AEIKTAD

If Mogadishu was founded and built by Somalis with no foreign contribution; then I have one question: why aren't there other similar cities in the whole of the Somali peninsula? Other Somali cities, beside Sarapion, were made mention of in Ptolemy's geographia too: e.g. Essina, Malao, Opone, etc. It's literally unfathomable that Mogadishu is the only Somali city that really flourished on a global level without foreign input while everyone else on the peninsula lead simple lives as nomads. Also most importantly, why does Mogadishu resemble other, Swahili coastal cities in East Africa? Don't let your xenophobia cloud your judgement.

I'm not even claiming that Middle Easterners founded Mogadishu; the main point I'm making is that they've contributed greatly to it's development. At least give credit where it's fucking due.

AceofSom, wallahi you cannot hold an intellectual debate. "Waxaan wax la rumayo ma ahan, wa wax gaalada colonistka qoreen" even though they're quoting Muslim sources; seriously you sound like a fucking nacas. You dismiss anything that contradicts your narrative without evidence.

Honestly, I'm not racist nor a supremacist; I acknowledge the intelligence of my Somali brothers. They're surely capable of building great civilisations; but I fucking dislike it when the contributions and relevance of Reer Benadir are downplayed.

With that being said, Somalia ha noolato.

why aren't there other similar cities in the whole of the Somali peninsula?

Hold your horses there sxb. Did you forget there's a little city by the sea called MERCA which has no people from your cadcad tribes in it. The city is all Somali and has the same architecture as old district Mogadishu. It was the capital city of Ajuran Sultanate and has absolutely nothing to do with Swahili people or Arabs or Persian anyone. It was founded and built by Somalis in the Middle Ages.

And have you noticed that Mogadishu Brava and Merca have similar-ish architecture but Swahili cities like Mombasa don't look anything like those three cities? Why would any sane person claim they have the same origin when it is clear that two very different cultures influenced this place.

I do acknowledge my Benadiri brothers and their historic and modern contributions to Somali culture. There influence in Xamar is undeniable and clear to everyone but you guys need to chill with the Muqdisho unuka leh thing. Muqdisha Merca Gondershe Brava and all Benadiri cities were Somali cities ruled by Somalis and built by Somalis.

Most Benadiri tribes are descended from people who were historical immigrants from war torn countries like Yemen, Iran and Moorish Spain while a large portion were traders from South Asia and Arabia. All this immigrants later became a significant part of Mogadishu and its culture. We've been through this before

 

[DuctTape]

There is a history of kismaayo being snatched and conqurred from ethiopian gaalo as recent as 150 years ago. This begs the question, where the hell were this somalis prior to that? Also, how did we have gaalo in kismaayo area and somalis in the Ethiopian area?it'd mean we were completely surrounded by gaalo in all corners.

Ethiopians in the kismaayo area? Be specific. Are you referring to Oromos?

 

[Ferrari]

Ethiopians in the kismaayo area? Be specific. Are you referring to Oromos?

haa but they weren't muslim oromo tho, the invading somalis called them gaalo.

 

[DuctTape]

haa but they weren't muslim oromo tho, the invading somalis called them gaalo.

Lots of documents refer to the original homeland of the Somalis being the area of northern Somalia and that we expanded relatively recently in our history.

 

[Layth]

I dont think anyone is arguing against Mogadishu being influenced by its neighbors (arab-bantu kingdoms) or citizens of the Arab/persian empires. The topic is who founded it, reer xamar are somalisizd last time i checked or are you still claiming your a separate ethnicity? A hamitic population existed before the persian or arab mess. That population was the Harla and Benadiris speak what resembles Harari today. Mogadishu did business with the Swahili arab run states in the south. For example the Sultanate of Zanzibar or kilwa sultanate in tanzania, so im not surprised if it intermingled culturally with Sultanate of Mogadishu. The so called Bantu swahili states were run by Arabs, this is what led to an arab massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanzibar_Revolution

Please tell me you're joking?

The so called Bantu swahili states were run by Arabs, this is what led to an arab massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanzibar_Revolution

May they be avenged. Wallahi these Bantus were savages.

 

[Ferrari]

Lots of documents refer to the original homeland of the Somalis being the area of northern Somalia and that we expanded relatively recently in our history.

That sounds reasonable. My family's history in the last 200 years is known and my mother's side came to the south in early 1900s fleeing the dervish wars. My dad's family never came but they were around north and west somalia.

 

[maestro]

This is Merca. historic capital of the Ajuran. You see niggas fighting for Mogadishu but no one is coming at Merca. Why is that? It's a lot more beautiful and aesthetic than modern Xamar

Maybe because they know the city can be claimed by no one but ethnic Somali since we built this shit

Please show me one Zawahili city that looks like this our architecture is unique fam. Foh with anyone that claims we were influence by Arabs iyo balayo. Most likely we influenced them

 

[Layth]

why aren't there other similar cities in the whole of the Somali peninsula?

Hold your horses there sxb. Did you forget there's a little city by the sea called MERCA which has no people from your cadcad tribes in it. The city is all Somali and has the same architecture as old district Mogadishu. It was the capital city of Ajuran Sultanate and has absolutely nothing to do with Swahili people or Arabs or Persian anyone. It was founded and built by Somalis in the Middle Ages.

And have you noticed that Mogadishu Brava and Merca have similar-ish architecture but Swahili cities like Mombasa don't look anything like those three cities? Why would any sane person claim they have the same origin when it is clear that two very different cultures influenced this place.

I do acknowledge my Benadiri brothers and their historic and modern contributions to Somali culture. There influence in Xamar is undeniable and clear to everyone but you guys need to chill with the Muqdisho unuka leh thing. Muqdisha Merca Gondershe Brava and all Benadiri cities were Somali cities ruled by Somalis and built by Somalis.

Most Benadiri tribes are descended from people who were historical immigrants from war torn countries like Yemen, Iran and Moorish Spain while a large portion were traders from South Asia and Arabia. All this immigrants later became a significant part of Mogadishu and its culture. We've been through this before

Wallahi there are many Benadiri families who've lived/live in Merca and have long history there. Reer Benadir have settled from Kismayo all the way down South to Barawa (which includes Merca). Merca is actually part of Banaadir. Can you mention a city outside of this region?

I've never claimed Mogadishu unuka leh sxb.

 

[DuctTape]

That sounds reasonable. My family's history in the last 200 years is known and my mother's side came to the south in early 1900s fleeing the dervish wars. My dad's family never came but they were around north and west somalia.

I remember reading about the history of Somalia and seeing somewhere that the ORIGINAL inhabitants, well before Somalis existed as a population in the southern half of the country were apparently Khoisan hunter-gatherers. That's a little strange to me but there are also apparently traces of this population present in certain groups that still live in the Jubbaland region today.

 

[DuctTape]

This is Merca. historic capital of the Ajuran. You see niggas fighting for Mogadishu but no one is coming at Merca. Why is that? It's a lot more beautiful and aesthetic than modern Xamar

Maybe because they know the city can be claimed by no one but ethnic Somali since we built this shit

View attachment 12890 View attachment 12891 View attachment 12892 View attachment 12893

Please show me one Zawahili city that looks like this our architecture is unique fam. Foh with anyone that claims we were influence by Arabs iyo balayo. Most likely we influenced them

It feels good knowing that we as a people have the architectural history and prowess to design beautiful buildings and cities like this
It's great knowing that we have more to our name than a bunch of mudhuts

 

[Ferrari]

I remember reading about the history of Somalia and seeing somewhere that the ORIGINAL inhabitants, well before Somalis existed as a population in the southern half of the country were apparently Khoisan hunter-gatherers. That's a little strange to me but there are also apparently traces of this population present in certain groups that still live in the Jubbaland region today.

So when did we, in our past, decide to deem hunter gatherers below nobility? The whole of somali history is very interesting and full of contradicting shit like this one. I reckon we probably were hunters because that might have been one of the only few means of survival.

 

[maestro]

who lived in somalia before 100ad "Sometime ago i read a book written by Greek traveller before 100AD, who navigated from red sea of Egypt to southern ocean or what we call today Indian ocean. The Greek explorer wrote extensively about people of the Horn, He divided them three major groups From Port Said in Sudan to Eritrea, Tigray, Gondor to Bet Amhara or modern Wallo he called Jabarti country, from Shewa to northern Hararge he called Orgoba country, from Aduluse to Harar including lowland of Afar, Somali and Oromo country he called that big chank: Harla country".

check this thread from 2009 somnet https://www.somnet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=195515

In 100 AD there was some Cushitic speakers that weren't Somali but preceded them. Stop trying claim those cities for your Harar tribe sxb

 

[DuctTape]

So when did we, in our past, decide to deem hunter gatherers below nobility? The whole of somali history is very interesting and full of contradicting shit like this one. I reckon we probably were hunters because that might have been one of the only few means of survival.

I don't even think Somalis actually made any contact with the ancient hunter gatherers. Wait, they had to have if certain Somali groups apparently have Khoisan admixture
I've noticed that Somalis are similar to many other nomadic cultures in that sense all over the world, which also consider heavy labour and artisanal jobs as beneath them
I don't know about us being hunters, I think that as long as Cushitic groups existed we were nomads. This kind of lifestyle is pretty much written into our DNA. Perhaps our ancient, ancient ancestors were hunters but the same could be said for basically all of humanity.