How tf was Mogadishu a Swahili city state?

[maestro]

Wallahi there are many Benadiri families who've lived/live in Merca and have long history there. Reer Benadir have settled from Kismayo all the way down South to Barawa (which includes Merca). Merca is actually part of Banaadir. Can you mention a city outside of this region?

I've never claimed Mogadishu unuka leh sxb.

Outside the region? Let's compare Zeila with Mogadishu

This is what it look like before it died and became ruins.

And This is what Mogadishu looked like before Italians came.

And Merca hasn't changed since the Medieval times.

The architecture does seem different I'll have to admit.

 

[Layth]

Outside the region? Let's compare Zeila with Mogadishu

This is what it look like before it died and became ruins.

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And This is what Mogadishu looked like before Italians came.

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And Merca hasn't changed since the Medieval times.

The architecture does seem different I'll have to admit.

Zeila? You mean the city that's been infested with Arabs such as the Makhzumis, the relatives of the Benadiri Makhzumis, one of their prominent descendants being Khadija al-Makhzoumi?

It's been reported by Ghalib ibn Harith (1130AD) that: "the city of Zeila is a great city with fine architecture, indicating very clear Arabian elements with their construction of the minarat; and guess what? Layth of SS is only joking here".


Very beautiful city.

 

[Lord Flacko]

@AceofSom @Prince of Hobyo

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AceOfSom, Ibn Battuta has certainly met Benadiri families. Sure qabiilkooda dhan ma nu tirinin, they were inhabiting Mogadishu nonetheless. He actually made mention of families who are the ancestors of some of the Asharaaf too.

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Tomb inscriptions?

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There were also said to have been tomb inscriptions that date to the 8th century, tracing its origins to Arabia: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwiF2PGcq4bSAhUsCMAKHUQCDhgQ6AEIKTAD

If Mogadishu was founded and built by Somalis with no foreign contribution; then I have one question: why aren't there other similar cities in the whole of the Somali peninsula? Other Somali cities, beside Sarapion, were made mention of in Ptolemy's geographia too: e.g. Essina, Malao, Opone, etc. It's literally unfathomable that Mogadishu is the only Somali city that really flourished on a global level without foreign input while everyone else on the peninsula lead simple lives as nomads. Also most importantly, why does Mogadishu resemble other, Swahili coastal cities in East Africa? Don't let your xenophobia cloud your judgement.

I'm not even claiming that Middle Easterners founded Mogadishu; the main point I'm making is that they've contributed greatly to it's development. At least give credit where it's fucking due.

AceofSom, wallahi you cannot hold an intellectual debate. "Waxaan wax la rumayo ma ahan, wa wax gaalada colonistka qoreen" even though they're quoting Muslim sources; seriously you sound like a fucking nacas. You dismiss anything that contradicts your narrative without evidence.

Honestly, I'm not racist nor a supremacist; I acknowledge the intelligence of my Somali brothers. They're surely capable of building great civilisations; but I fucking dislike it when the contributions and relevance of Reer Benadir are downplayed.

With that being said, Somalia ha noolato.

When Ibn Battuta visited Mogadishu, he was greeted and accepted by the SOMALI Sultan.

He could have meet a thousand arab families but the Sultan, the man who let him in and showed him hospitallity, the ruler of Mogadishu was Somali.


Don't try to argue with me on this. I've already had this discussion a hundred times and I know every source there is to know. You can't win.

 

[Lord Flacko]

It was a vassal state, which meant Adal would protect it if it were to be attacked. You can pretend Mogadishu was more powerful then Adal if you want. It accepted to be a tributary state. Hawiye might of been in the region but they werent ruling Mogadishu until their political Ajuran state from merca started rising. Muzafar dynasty collapsed because of Ajuran.

The Portuguese won against the Adal. They didn't dare to even greet the people of Mogadishu.

From the Portuguese themselves

Transcript :
"He then steered for Magadoxo. The people at this place made a very formidable appearance : great numbers of foot, and cuiraffiers were patrolling on the shore ; the walls of the city lined with armed men, and a confiderable body of troops drawn up before it. Coutign being afraid to land, sent one of the Bravan captives to let the people know that the Portuguese came not to denounce war, but to offer peace. In Coutign's sight they tore to pieces the captive, and threatened to serve him in the same manner, if he could dare to come ashore. Coutign therefore returned to Cugna, to whom he ralted the cruelty and insolent menaces of the enemy. Cugna was for storming the city, but at the perfuations of all his officers and pilots, he dropped this resolution. The place was almost inaccesible, strong by its natural situation, and defended by a numerous garrifon, the station of our ships extremely dangerous, and very much exposed to the enemy. Cigna therefore with all expedition failed sailed for Socotra."

So a Portuguese general wanted to attack Mogadishu after they tore apart their offer of peace. Everyone of his soldiers and officers revolted and did not want to do so, knowing they'd be entering death. Cugna, the General, finally heeded their advice and headed for Socotra. But yeah they needed Adal help ofc

 

[Canuck]

That sounds reasonable. My family's history in the last 200 years is known and my mother's side came to the south in early 1900s fleeing the dervish wars. My dad's family never came but they were around north and west somalia.

Encourage your elders relatives to write their family history or even do it yourself.

 

[Ferrari]

Encourage your elders relatives to write their family history or even do it yourself.

wouldn't be a bad idea. I could write a journal.

My family are known in the k5 area and old people from the rest of somalia would know them. My great grand parents were taught in history classes.

 

[Canuck]

wouldn't be a bad idea. I could write a journal.

My family are known in the k5 area and old people from the rest of somalia would know them. My great grand parents were taught in history classes.

My grandfather wrote the history of his family (third grandfather till today) my uncles wrote their life stories combined with Somalia history and civil war.

 

[Ferrari]

My grandfather wrote the history of his family (third grandfather till today) my uncles wrote their life stories combined with Somalia history and civil war.

that's good. you'll always have stories to tell your kids and their kids.

 

[Galaeri]

There is a history of kismaayo being snatched and conqurred from ethiopian gaalo as recent as 150 years ago. This begs the question, where the hell were this somalis prior to that? Also, how did we have gaalo in kismaayo area and somalis in the Ethiopian area?it'd mean we were completely surrounded by gaalo in all corners.

I have a text about the history of jubaland I'll pm it to you shortly. The territory belonged to the Oromo. The Somalis originally started in the north and kept pushing south and to the west, eventually they crossed the juba river and taking the pristine grazing land. I believe the oromos they attacked now live in Kenya.

Yes we were encircled by non muslims.

 

[Canuck]

I have a text about the history of jubaland I'll pm it to you shortly. The territory belonged to the Oromo. The Somalis originally started in the north and kept pushing south and to the west, eventually they crossed the juba river and taking the pristine grazing land. I believe the oromos they attacked now live in Kenya.

Yes we were encircled by non muslims.

Hide it, those vultures will jumbo on this claim to south Somalia

 

[Galaeri]

Hide it, those vultures will jumbo on this claim to south Somalia

They can't complain, they came after we did the hardwork . They need to pay homage to the glorious beesha Darood for securing this great prize for the Somali.

 

[Young Popeye]

The Portuguese won against the Adal. They didn't dare to even greet the people of Mogadishu.

From the Portuguese themselves View attachment 12907
Transcript :
"He then steered for Magadoxo. The people at this place made a very formidable appearance : great numbers of foot, and cuiraffiers were patrolling on the shore ; the walls of the city lined with armed men, and a confiderable body of troops drawn up before it. Coutign being afraid to land, sent one of the Bravan captives to let the people know that the Portuguese came not to denounce war, but to offer peace. In Coutign's sight they tore to pieces the captive, and threatened to serve him in the same manner, if he could dare to come ashore. Coutign therefore returned to Cugna, to whom he ralted the cruelty and insolent menaces of the enemy. Cugna was for storming the city, but at the perfuations of all his officers and pilots, he dropped this resolution. The place was almost inaccesible, strong by its natural situation, and defended by a numerous garrifon, the station of our ships extremely dangerous, and very much exposed to the enemy. Cigna therefore with all expedition failed sailed for Socotra."

So a Portuguese general wanted to attack Mogadishu after they tore apart their offer of peace. Everyone of his soldiers and officers revolted and did not want to do so, knowing they'd be entering death. Cugna, the General, finally heeded their advice and headed for Socotra. But yeah they needed Adal help ofc

Adal was occupying 75% of Ethiopian territory, it wasnt defending itself from a Portugese invasion so your mogadishu comparison is a bad example. Adal wasnt defeated, they call it "Status quo ante bellum" meaning the state existing before the war because Adal soldiers refused to occupy Ethiopia after the death of Imam. When did Portuguese even attempt to occupy any part of the horn of africa? They just helped Ethiopia and left. Portuguese empire however invaded and occupied Sultanate of Mozambique.

 

[Canuck]

Adal was occupying 75% of Ethiopian territory, it wasnt defending itself from a Portugese invasion so your mogadishu comparison is a bad example. Adal wasnt defeated, they call it "Status quo ante bellum" meaning the state existing before the war because Adal soldiers refused to occupy Ethiopia after the death of Imam. When did Portuguese even attempt to occupy any part of the horn of africa? They just helped Ethiopia and left. Portuguese empire however invaded and occupied Sultanate of Mozambique.

They(Portuguese, with help of Ethiopia) want to invade Arabia and steal the prophet Mohamed 'S grave but with help of turkey, Indian and Ajuran sultanates stopped the invasion. I will send the video but it is in Arabic language.

 

[AceofSom]

@AceofSom @Prince of Hobyo

View attachment 12883

View attachment 12884

AceOfSom, Ibn Battuta has certainly met Benadiri families. Sure qabiilkooda dhan ma nu tirinin, they were inhabiting Mogadishu nonetheless. He actually made mention of families who are the ancestors of some of the Asharaaf too.

View attachment 12885

Tomb inscriptions?

View attachment 12886

View attachment 12887

There were also said to have been tomb inscriptions that date to the 8th century, tracing its origins to Arabia: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwiF2PGcq4bSAhUsCMAKHUQCDhgQ6AEIKTAD

If Mogadishu was founded and built by Somalis with no foreign contribution; then I have one question: why aren't there other similar cities in the whole of the Somali peninsula? Other Somali cities, beside Sarapion, were made mention of in Ptolemy's geographia too: e.g. Essina, Malao, Opone, etc. It's literally unfathomable that Mogadishu is the only Somali city that really flourished on a global level without foreign input while everyone else on the peninsula lead simple lives as nomads. Also most importantly, why does Mogadishu resemble other, Swahili coastal cities in East Africa? Don't let your xenophobia cloud your judgement.

I'm not even claiming that Middle Easterners founded Mogadishu; the main point I'm making is that they've contributed greatly to it's development. At least give credit where it's fucking due.

AceofSom, wallahi you cannot hold an intellectual debate. "Waxaan wax la rumayo ma ahan, wa wax gaalada colonistka qoreen" even though they're quoting Muslim sources; seriously you sound like a fucking nacas. You dismiss anything that contradicts your narrative without evidence.

Honestly, I'm not racist nor a supremacist; I acknowledge the intelligence of my Somali brothers. They're surely capable of building great civilisations; but I fucking dislike it when the contributions and relevance of Reer Benadir are downplayed.

With that being said, Somalia ha noolato.

As usual, like the last time I had this debate with you, you bring no facts, other then " al Hawawi might have said this" or "their was a tomb with Persian writing"

Find me the direct quotes of Al Hawawi or Al Idrisi on what they said about these mythical Arab and Persian inhabitants, maybe then we can start talking at a intellectual level.

Ps, u will find zero, I promise you