How tf was Mogadishu a Swahili city state?

[Canuck]

 

[Canuck]

 

[DuctTape]

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The "Maqad-i-shah" apparent Persian influence isn't proven. There are a number of theories on the origin of the name of Xamar but none of them are seen as objectively true. Also, the origin of Mogadishu lies in the city of Sarapion, which existed well before Islam, when the Somalis (or their ancestors) traded with the Greeks and Romans. It wasn't "founded" by the Persians.

 

[Canuck]

Well Shingani is one of the oldest neighborhoods in Mogadishu and that name ain't certainly Somali. You work it out.

Shingani is old Persian city name and Persian traders renamed the neighbourhood by that name.

 

[Canuck]

The "Maqad-i-shah" apparent Persian influence isn't proven. There are a number of theories on the origin of the name of Xamar but none of them are seen as objectively true. Also, the origin of Mogadishu lies in the city of Sarapion, which existed well before Islam, when the Somalis (or their ancestors) traded with the Greeks and Romans. It wasn't "founded" by the Persians.

I know that but they just renamed the old city only

 

[Canuck]

Shangaani or whatever the old centre of Mogadishu is called sounds very Bantu/Swahili.

The cad cads of Somalia = used to be Swahili.

The Swahili of Kenya and Tanzania are more Negroid. The ones in Somalia are more mixed race/middle eastern.

Shangani is old Persian name

 

[Canuck]

I was watching a crash course about Islam and Africa, at one point they brought up Somalia but instead of bringing up anything about Mogadishu they just said it was a Swahili city state...I was like what?

I hate how our history is constantly being stolen by Kenyans or Eritreans, fucking pathetic.

Eritreans are trying to distance themselves from Ethiopia and build new identity as new country, so they preyed on the nearest history to them Somalia, not Punt only, but the Adal sultanate and land of Zelia especially on the Arabic speaking forums. They claimed the Zelia tribe and Zelia 's historians (per 12 century who were Somalis from city of Zelia)
The Zelia tribe in Yemen and Saudi were formed by Somali Darood traders who migrated from city of Zelia Somalia to Yemen and Saudi during 12 century till they live there are as well respected tribe with their villages and towns. They traced back their lineage to Darood from Zelia city.

 

[AceofSom]

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.This is utter crap, the usual colonial garbage.

 

[Layth]

@AceofSom you seem to deny ANY influence from Arabs and Persians. That's just ridiculous wallahi, and frankly not realistic.

 

[AceofSom]

@AceofSom you seem to deny ANY influence from Arabs and Persians. That's just ridiculous wallahi

They lived and settled their, so what. Look at any port city in the world, they have the largest immigrant population. For example Marseilles has large Arab population, does that mean they founded the city?

If their was a large Arab or Persian population, Ibn Battuta would have noted it, but he didn't.

 

[Layth]

They lived and settled their, so what. Look at any port city in the world, they have the largest immigrant population. For example Marseilles has large Arab population, does that mean they founded the city?

If their was a large Arab or Persian population, Ibn Battuta would have noted it, but he didn't.

There were historians and geographers who have preceded Ibn Battuta that have made mention of foreign settlement.

Besides, they did not merely "settle" there; they've contributed greatly. You can't just dismiss all the archeological and historical evidence for foreign contribution as colonial balderdash.

 

[AceofSom]

There were historians and geographers who have preceded Ibn Battuta that have made mention of foreign settlement.

Besides, they did not merely "settle" there; they've contributed greatly. You can't just dismiss all the archeological and historical evidence for foreign contribution as colonial balderdash.

tell me one other geographer or historian who has visited Medieval Mogadishu and we have "their" travel details?

 

[Layth]

tell me one other geographer or historian who has visited Mogadishu and we have "their" travel details?

Ibn Battuta made mention of an Egyptian Qadhi. Just because he did not explicitly make mention of the foreigners, it does not mean they did not inhabit Mogadishu at the time; that's a logical fallacy.

To answer your question; al Idrisi makes mention of that fact that the majority of the inhabitants of Xamar during the 10th century~ were Middle Easterners. Even if he did not visit Mogadishu, he wouldn't cursorily conjure up such a phenomenon. How would he benefit from that?

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

Ibn Battuta made mention of an Egyptian Qadhi. Just because he did not explicitly make mention of the foreigners, it does not mean they did not inhabit Mogadishu at the time; that's a logical fallacy.

To answer your question; al Idrisi makes mention of that fact that the majority of the inhabitants of Xamar during the 10th century~ were Middle Easterners. Even if he did not visit Mogadishu, he wouldn't cursorily conjure up such a phenomenon. How would he benefit from that?

Source?

 

[AceofSom]

Ibn Battuta made mention of an Egyptian Qadhi. Just because he did not explicitly make mention of the foreigners, it does not mean they did not inhabit Mogadishu at the time; that's a logical fallacy.

To answer your question; al Idrisi makes mention of that fact that the majority of the inhabitants of Xamar during the 10th century~ were Middle Easterners. Even if he did not visit Mogadishu, he wouldn't take that information out of his back pocket. How would he benefit from that?

Don't make a fool of yourself, I have already had this debate with you.
Their no actual details of al Idiris travelling to Somalia nor of any details he recorded. For god sake the man was born in Andulucia. Theirs been few quotes attributed to him, but nothing that actual directly from his books.

 

[Young Popeye]

Its called Hamar because Hamites use to live there not Negroid bantu. Muqdish was founded by Emir of Harar Sheikh Abadirs son Fakhrddin who was Half Harla on his mothers side.

Wikipedia has a different version which is incorrect "Ibrahim and the other Gobroon nobles were descended from Omar Dine, an early Muslim leader who had arrived with four of his brothers from the Arabian peninsula. Among this group of siblings, all of whom were Islamic clerics, was Fakr ad-Din, the first Sultan of the Mogadishu Sultanate (fl. 13th century). The other two brothers are referred to variously as Shamse Dine (Shams-ad-diin), Imudi Dine, Alahi Dine and Ahmed Dine. Omar Dine is said have taken residence in Harar. Some traditions also associate him with that city-state's sixteenth century Sultan, Umar Din."

The Etymology of Muqdish is Hot Land in Harari/Harla language. As shown by the Zay language Muq means Hot
https://books.google.ca/books?id=7B...KHVycDdgQ6AEIJjAC#v=onepage&q=muq hot&f=false

Dish means Ground, check Harari dictionary
http://wollamshram.ca/1001/East/east1_appn02.htm

 

[Lord Flacko]

Ibn Battuta made mention of an Egyptian Qadhi. Just because he did not explicitly make mention of the foreigners, it does not mean they did not inhabit Mogadishu at the time; that's a logical fallacy.

To answer your question; al Idrisi makes mention of that fact that the majority of the inhabitants of Xamar during the 10th century~ were Middle Easterners. Even if he did not visit Mogadishu, he wouldn't cursorily conjure up such a phenomenon. How would he benefit from that?

Al Idrisi never mentioned Mogadishu directly. And he was born in the 12th-ish century, sorry he could not have made any mentions in the 10th. He did however mention in the 1100s that Merca, "50" settlements along the Nile of Mogadishu (lower Shabelle) and Benadir were inhabited by the Hawiya Somali.

 

[John Michael]

Mogadishu is a newish name the original name is xamar.

It's not Swahili it's the name of an Omani king.


Also shingani is Somali word I can't remember what it means.

There are though several small villages in south Somalia that have Swahili names. Even then, their not Swahili owned.

 

[AceofSom]

Its called Hamar because Hamites use to live there not Negroid bantu. Muqdish was founded by Emir of Harar Sheikh Abadirs son Fakhrddin who was Half Harla on his mothers side.

Wikipedia has a different version which is incorrect "Ibrahim and the other Gobroon nobles were descended from Omar Dine, an early Muslim leader who had arrived with four of his brothers from the Arabian peninsula. Among this group of siblings, all of whom were Islamic clerics, was Fakr ad-Din, the first Sultan of the Mogadishu Sultanate (fl. 13th century). The other two brothers are referred to variously as Shamse Dine (Shams-ad-diin), Imudi Dine, Alahi Dine and Ahmed Dine. Omar Dine is said have taken residence in Harar. Some traditions also associate him with that city-state's sixteenth century Sultan, Umar Din."

The Etymology of Muqdish is Hot Land in Harari/Harla language. As shown by the Zay language Muq means Hot
https://books.google.ca/books?id=7BA46Gu0X3wC&pg=PA230&dq=muq+hot&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYiNuAnIbSAhVD1oMKHVycDdgQ6AEIJjAC#v=onepage&q=muq hot&f=false

Dish means Ground, check Harari dictionary
http://wollamshram.ca/1001/East/east1_appn02.htm

Mogadishu is a newish name the original name is xamar.

It's not Swahili it's the name of an Omani king. It's basic information.


Also shingani is Somali word I can't remember what it means.

There are though several small villages in south Somalia that have Swahili names. Even then, their not Swahili owned.

cool story peeps.

 

[Layth]

Don't make a fool of yourself, I have already had this debate with you.
Their no actual details of al Idiris travelling to Somalia nor of any details he recorded. For god sake the man was born in Andulucia. Theirs been few quotes attributed to him, but nothing that actual directly from his books.

Search it up.

Al Idrisi never mentioned Mogadishu directly. And he was born in the 12th century, sorry he could not have made any mentions in the 10th. He did however mention in the 1100s that Merca, "50" settlements along the Nile of Mogadishu (lower Shabelle) and Benadir were inhabited by the Hawiya Somali.

I never claimed he visited Somalia, nor did I claim that the year he suspected Middle Easterners to have inhabited Somalia coincides with the date of his birth-death. This information must have been based on second-hand sources.