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[Grant]

Dir and garhajis is mostly T. Rest of isaaqs and other clans are mostly e1b1b1 (except some warsangeli who have hablogroup j)

Raises hell with any abtirsi going back to Samaale, doesn't it. The division even within the Isaaq is notable and strange.

There is supposed to be an Ethio-Somali gene that arrived circa 3KA, that is represented in modern populations at 30-50%.

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393

"Populations in the Horn of Africa (HOA: Ethiopia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and Somalia) have substantial non-African ancestry [11]–[15]. The most recent genomic studies estimate 30–50% non-African ancestry in the Cushitic and Semitic speaking populations of the HOA resulting primarily from admixture around 3 ka [16], [17]. This timeframe corresponds to the estimated time of origin of the Ethiosemitic languages [18] and there are some carved inscriptions in South Arabian scripts associated with temple ruins and ritual items in South Arabian styles dated to the early first millennium BCE in the north Ethiopian highlands [19]–[23]. These linguistic and archaeological connections have been cited in the recent population genomic studies to support a hypothesis of high levels of non-African migration into the HOA around 3 ka."

I am thinking we need to look further into this.

 

[Apollo]

Dir and garhajis is mostly T. Rest of isaaqs and other clans are mostly e1b1b1 (except some warsangeli who have hablogroup j)

About half of Isaaqs are T as well. And it is found at low frequency among Raxanweyn and Hawiyes.

 

[Apollo]

Not true. The Rendille have no T. The Isaaq and Hawiyya are B1b1b with very low levels of T. The Cisse and Gadabursi levels are too high to have any significant relationship to the Cushites. 82-100% T!

On your map, you see all that Red Sea and Arabian peninsula stuff to the north, and no T to the south? There is some T in the ancient E1b1b strain, but this isn't it.

Haplogroup T is found all the way in Tanzania among Southern Cushites (Iraqw etc) and groups influenced by them like the Datooga.

It is probably very old in the region and has nothing to do with Arab merchant fantasies of yours. You are dealing with prehistoric lineages here.

 

[Grant]

Haplogroup T is found all the way in Tanzania among Southern Cushites (Iraqw etc) and groups influenced by them like the Datooga.

It is probably very old in the region and has nothing to do with Arab merchant fantasies of yours. You are dealing with prehistoric lineages

here.

This lineage would be about 3000 years old:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9370-Where-did-haplogroup-T-M184-originate

"Smh Traders/Merchants never had a significant impact on Somalis.Majority of these Somali clans that have this haplogroup are also inland pastoralists with no recent foreign admixture lol.Also this haplogroup is also found among other cushite groups like the Iraqw of Tanzania.

It makes much more sense that this haplogroup entered Africa from the Levant maybe during the neolithic and was spread southward by migrating Cushites."

Note that the Khoekhoe carried both Levantine and Cushitic DNA and Levantine sheep all the way to South Africa..

 

[anonimo]

This lineage would be about 3000 years old:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9370-Where-did-haplogroup-T-M184-originate

"Smh Traders/Merchants never had a significant impact on Somalis.Majority of these Somali clans that have this haplogroup are also inland pastoralists with no recent foreign admixture lol.Also this haplogroup is also found among other cushite groups like the Iraqw of Tanzania.

It makes much more sense that this haplogroup entered Africa from the Levant maybe during the neolithic and was spread southward by migrating Cushites."

Note that the Khoekhoe carried both Levantine and Cushitic DNA and Levantine sheep all the way to South Africa..

Grant

Most of what is being discussed in online forums about the origin of Somali haplogroup T is conjecture. As I have previously stated, the subclade/subclades that Somalis belong to needs to be discovered before we can seriously discuss whether T arrived from the Levant or from Arabia via the Red Sea.

In the Anthrogenica thread, Vettor raises a valid point in regard to the subclade/subclades that Somalis belong to. If the Somali haplogroup T subclade is Y16897, then it is possible that their ancestor came to Africa via the Red Sea route because this subclade is found among Gulf Arabs and Ashkenazi Jews as the map posted illustrates, and as confirmed by private test results on FTDNA. As things stand, the CTS2214 subclade appears to be the most common haplogroup T1a1a subclade found in Africa but Y16897 is as rare as a hen's teeth, hence why Vettor wants Somali T carriers to do the Big Y test so he may determine the population that they are closely related to. Check the following STR Haplogroup T DNA test results and you will observe that the Habar Yoonis Somali haplogroup T carriers are grouped with Y16897/Z19971:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Y-Haplogroup-K2/default.aspx?section=yresults

I should add that belonging to Y16897 does not necessarily guarantee that Somalis HG-T carriers migrated to the Horn via the Red Sea because as more populations get tested, it might be discovered among other African populations in the North or Southern part of the continent. For example, it was recently discovered that the Tobou of Chad possess haplogroup T and R in large numbers. Could their HG-T possibly be Y16897 too?

http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2073 ... 8/mmc2.pdf

Nevertheless, whatever migratory route the ancestor/ancestors of Somali haplogroup T carrier took does not change the probability it has an old presence among Somalis. It is most likely the result of a founder effect in the Somali population that occurred 2k to 2.5k ago as hypothesised by that Danish study. However, the T samples they used might not be representative of all Somali HG-T carriers and we do not know the clan breakdown of the people tested.

As for what Qabils are haplogroup T, the jury is still out but there are indicators that it is high among the Northern Ciise, Isaaq and Samaroon. It is also high among the South Central Surre Dir subclan. Among the Isaaq, only the dominant haplogroup in only two subclans can be hypothesised, the Sacad Muuse (E-V32) and the Habar Yoonis (T). Bare in mind that it is important to tests sub sub sub clans within all clans to obtain accurate data. That has not been done yet.

 

[Rooble]

About half of Isaaqs are T as well. And it is found at low frequency among Raxanweyn and Hawiyes.

Could be the Dir living with the Raxanweyn and are part of the Confederation.

 

[Arma]

Favorite civilizations:

Ancient Rome
Ancient China
Italian city states (Renaissance)
British Empire
USA
Soviet Union

Cadaan jec'laa ninka

 

[Jeesto]

Aksum area stretched all the way to northern Dir lands (Gadabursi and Issa) the artifacts still found today in the area are proof of this fact we were part of this great empire. We are Abysinnian in origin.

Is qor qorkan eega Roman, Greek, Chinese and Egyptian artifacts are found all over SL and Bari Somalia, does that mean markas that Somalis were part of these empires? NO! Sit your injirle loving ass down and stop humilating yourself.

 

[Apollo]

Could be the Dir living with the Raxanweyn and are part of the Confederation.

The spectrum from real clan to fake clan according to genetic data is currently:

(most real) Dir ---- Darod ---- Hawiye ---- Raxanweyn ---- Isaaq (most fake)

 

[Kezira]

Is qor qorkan eega Roman, Greek, Chinese and Egyptian artifacts are found all over SL and Bari Somalia, does that mean markas that Somalis were part of these empires? NO! Sit your injirle loving ass down and stop humilating yourself.

Is that jealousy? We were part of the great civilization?

 

[Prince Abubu]

The spectrum from real clan to fake clan according to genetic data is currently:

(most real) Dir ---- Darod ---- Hawiye ---- Raxanweyn ---- Isaaq (most fake)

And you being Darood wouldn't happen to have anything to do with your baseless conclusions would it?

The two fakest clans are Darood and Hawiye. One's abtirsi makes as much sense as a Donald Trump tweet and the other has actual clans like Xawaadle, Ajuuran and Sheekhaal claiming different origins.

 

[Apollo]

And you being Darood wouldn't happen to have anything to do with your baseless conclusions would it?

The two fakest clans are Darood and Hawiye. One's abtirsi makes as much sense as a Donald Trump tweet and the other has actual clans like Xawaadle, Ajuuran and Sheekhaal claiming different origins.

I knew the comment would bring in some butthurt, but it is the truth for now.

Only the Dir and Darod are still in the game for linking an actual SNP marker to the macro-clan. The rest are social constructs.

 

[Rooble]

I knew the comment would bring in some butthurt, but it is the truth for now.

Only the Dir and Darod are still in the game for linking an actual SNP marker to the macro-clan. The rest are social constructs.

That's why I say could be the Dir in Rahanwein.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

And you being Darood wouldn't happen to have anything to do with your baseless conclusions would it?

The two fakest clans are Darood and Hawiye. One's abtirsi makes as much sense as a Donald Trump tweet and the other has actual clans like Xawaadle, Ajuuran and Sheekhaal claiming different origins.

He was referring to fake in terms of haplogroups ,not darood and Isaac genealogy, which we know to be fake .

 

[Prince Abubu]

I knew the comment would bring in some butthurt, but it is the truth for now.

Only the Dir and Darod are still in the game for linking an actual SNP marker to the macro-clan. The rest are social constructs.

It's not being butt-hurt, you just have a habit of jumping to conclusions on little evidence- the very definition of suugo-science. To say Dir is genealogically consistent is a stretch but at least it's not controversial. Though, there needs to be more studies done on smaller more remote clans like Gurgure, Jaarso and Gaadsan etc. As I wouldn't be surprised if they have substantial Omotic DNA through intermixing with Oromos.

Darood, however, are a different kettle of fish. Their genealogical line makes no sense whatsoever. And just because they all (apart from Warsangeli/some Ogadens and dhulos) have E1b1b doesn't mean their clan genealogy is more consistent. For f*ck sakes they have Non-Somali Sheegatos among them.

Isaaq on the other hand falls into two camps when it comes to y dna, T and E1b1b. Not only that, their abtirsi to Sheekh Isaaq is airtight and impenetrable.

Your are simply using weak logic and bias to insult Isaaq. I would not talk about Sheegatos if I was a Darood, much less a harti.

 

[Apollo]

It's not being butt-hurt, you just have a habit of jumping to conclusions on little evidence- the very definition of suugo-science. To say Dir is genealogically consistent is a stretch but at least it's not controversial. Though, there needs to be more studies done on smaller more remote clans like Gurgure, Jaarso and Gaadsan etc. As I wouldn't be surprised if they have substantial Omotic DNA through intermixing with Oromos.

Darood, however, are a different kettle of fish. Their genealogical line makes no sense whatsoever. And just because they all (apart from Warsangeli/some Ogadens and dhulos) have E1b1b doesn't mean their clan genealogy is more consistent. For f*ck sales they have Non-Somali Sheegatos among them.

Isaaq on the other hand falls into two camps when it comes to y dna, T and E1b1b. Not only that, their abtirsi to Sheekh Isaaq is airtight and impenetrable.

Your are simply using weak logic and bias to insult Isaaq. I would not talk about Sheegatos if I was a Darood, much less a harti.

Nope. You are over-analyzing things. I am just being honest. I think that is the ranking at the moment based on the data I got.

 

[Prince Abubu]

Nope. You are over-analyzing things. I am just being honest. I think that is the ranking at the moment based on the data I got.

I think you're letting you bias cloud your judgement. Your allegations against Isaaq can be thrown at Darood with more ammunition.

 

[Prince Abubu]

He was referring to fake in terms of haplogroups ,not darood and Isaac genealogy, which we know to be fake .

I know. Even if we performed a haplogroup check on all daroods and Isaaqs, the latter would still prove to be more diverse and inconsistent. Like I said, a Darood should not throw stones in a glass house.

 

[Apollo]

I know. Even if we performed a haplogroup check on all daroods and Isaaqs, the latter would still prove to be more diverse and inconsistent. Like I said, a Darood should not throw stones in a glass house.

I am strictly speaking about patrilineal terms here. The biggest y-cluster always observed when they sample a bunch of random people born in Somalia is the main Darod y-str cluster. I don't think it is a fake clan, for now. My data is speculative, but highly probable.

 

[Rooble]

@Amun Murusade are haplogroup T too as well from that one guy on Somnet