Not divided the mu'tamad of the madhab is that it's obligatory
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Not divided the mu'tamad of the madhab is that it's obligatory
Now, with that being clear, let me ask the gents: @AdoonkaAlle @Berke
If it is not obligatory, the madaahib are not necessitating it as a fardh, and there are no derived medically known healthy benefits from scientifically available research, as of yet, then what is the reason for its practice?
Postscript:
I am aware of health risks to women by the fircawni type. The gaalo perspectives, and what adults do for beautification purposes have no bearing on the matter, and are well beyond the scope.
Who is she? Did I not already say that it's an obligation on the parents and if they abandon they are sinning?So, if a child was not circumcised, she would be sinning?
I'm not faqih. These types of questions are better asked by actual scholars. I donโt even know what they got to do with the discussion we were having about the obligation of the circumcisionIn the case of a lady in her twenties, who converts to Islam, is she required to have the operation?
Youโre not a scholar, hence talking this way is unbecoming. This is a Shafi Fatwa concerning the topic. It isnโt black and white:It's fard on the parents. Yes if they don't do(circumcise their children), they are sinning according to the aforementioned madhabs
In Habbali, could you locate the text in Arabic where it outlines its being fardh?Hanbali madhab
Itโs confusing. When you look at the Shafi Fatwa I showed, they allude that the Hanbali opinion is that it isnโt fard and argue that because a lot of cultures has distorted it, people are free to follow the Hanbali and Hanafi view.In Habbali, could you locate the text in Arabic here it outlines its being fardh?
What I mean is, if it is fardh, every Muslima would have to adhere to it, even if parents have not done, or converted; would you agree?Who is she? Did I not already say that it's an obligation on the parents and if they abandon they are sinning?
A child is sinning for not circumcising himself? Comm'n. You don't sound genuine, you gotta be trolling
I'm not faqih. These types of questions are better asked by actual scholars. I donโt even know what they got to do with the discussion we were having about the obligation of the circumcision
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In Habbali, could you locate the text in Arabic where it outlines its being fardh?
Let us not fall out, we are just having an intelligent conversation.
Could you reference the book source?ู ูุฌุจ ุฎุชุงู ( ุฃูุซู ) ุจุฃุฎุฐ ุฌูุฏุฉ ููู ู ุญู ุงูุฅููุงุฌ ุชุดุจู ุนุฑู ุงูุฏูู ุ ููุณุชุญุจ ุฃู ูุง ุชุคุฎุฐ ูููุง ูุตุง ุ ูุญุฏูุซ { ุงุฎูุถู ููุง ุชูููู ุ ูุฅูู ุฃูุถุฑ ูููุฌู ูุฃุญุธู ุนูุฏ ุงูุฒูุฌ } .
ุดุฑุญ ู ูุชูู ุงูุฅุฑุงุฏุงุช
Could you reference the book source?
Are you of the view it is fardh / wajib?@Berke has already answered the first part regarding the stances of madhabs, so i will focus more on the latter question that you raised. Just to emphasize, medical health benefit has never been a reason why people carried out circumcision in the past. It's only in our times that this has been used as an argument in order to justify cultural traditions in the eyes of western ethics. A sort of an appeasement/defence tactic to shield these practices from western criticisms.
The reason why there's no study about the health benefits of female circumcision has to do with the cultural context of the science in question. All the official international bodies, western countries etc have funded massive research programs into the harms of the practice, these initial assumptions which search for harms are going to influence the outcomes. This is why you will not find any studies show casing any health benefits whatsoever from these official bodies. So the cultural context of science shapes the sort of studies one will find.
Now if you were to look at countries where female circumcision is practised like in egypt, malaysia etc you will find studies showing health benefits of female circumcision. Unfortunately these researchers from such countries where female circumcision is the norm do not have influence over the scientific literature, global health policy etc as opposed to gaalo, hence the status quo of there being no health benefits
Nevertheless it's possible to find health benefits associated with it, you just need to frame it differently. There are similar procedures carried out in western nations under the label FGCS (female genital cosmetic surgery) which are comparable to female circumcision. So you can look at the health benefits attached to fgcs , as both of these types of modification have significant overlap.
As you're aware the communities that practice female circumcision also carry out male circumcision meaning their motivations for practicing both types are similar. Among the many reasons for them are : ritual purification, rite of passage, cultural custom, aesthetics, religious requirement etc.
I thank you. Let me read that.ุฅุณูุงู ููุจ - ุดุฑุญ ู ูุชูู ุงูุฅุฑุงุฏุงุช - ูุชุงุจ ุงูุทูุงุฑุฉ - ุจุงุจ ุงูุชุณูู ูุบูุฑู ู ู ุณูู ุงููุทุฑุฉ- ุงูุฌุฒุก ุฑูู 1
ููุฌุจ ุฎุชุงู ุฐูุฑ ุจุฃุฎุฐ ุฌูุฏุฉ ุงูุญุดูุฉ ููุงู ุฌู ุน ุฅู ุงูุชุตุฑ ุนูู ุฃูุซุฑูุง ุฌุงุฒ ู ูุฌุจ ุฎุชุงู ุฃูุซู ุจุฃุฎุฐ ุฌูุฏุฉ ููู ู ุญู ุงูุฅููุงุฌ ุชุดุจู ุนุฑู ุงูุฏูู ููุณุชุญุจ ุฃู ูุง ุชุคุฎุฐ ูููุง ูุตุง ูุญุฏูุซ ุงุฎูุถู ููุง ุชูููู ูุฅูู ุฃูุถุฑ ูููุฌู ูุฃุญุธู ุนูุฏ ุงูุฒูุฌ ุฑูุงู ุงูุทุจุฑุงูู ูุงูุญุงูู ุนู ุงูุถุญุงู ุจู ููุณ ู ุฑููุนุง ูููุฒูุฌ ุฌุจุฑ ุฒูุฌุชู ุงูู ุณูู ุฉ ุนููู...www.islamweb.net
I can't access the link to the website you sharedYouโre not a scholar, hence talking this way is unbecoming. This is a Shafi Fatwa concerning the topic. It isnโt black and white:
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๐๐๐๐๐๐๐
read this. It fits into what youโre saying. This is from a Shafi section of the site that only deals with Shafi perspective.
Itโs a bit mad how I was demonized on here when I was literally saying the same thing but with regards to the context in Africa, especially the highlighted parts.
@AdoonkaAlle
Iโm curious as to what your view of this Fatwa which also used the term โmutilationโ which you regarded as racist. Maybe you can write a lecture to this Shafi Fatwa site and lecture them about how racist and loaded the word โmutilationโ is.
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Are you of the view it is fardh / wajib?
Who says a word by itself is racist ?? i stated that the term fgm is racist as it's ONLY utilised to describe non-white body modifications despite the overlapping similarities to white body modifications. It makes distinctions based on the colour of those carrying out the procedures, hence why i called it racist & ethnocentric.
I view it as a sunnah.
Thanks again for the link, al Bahuti is revered authority in Islam.ุฅุณูุงู ููุจ - ุดุฑุญ ู ูุชูู ุงูุฅุฑุงุฏุงุช - ูุชุงุจ ุงูุทูุงุฑุฉ - ุจุงุจ ุงูุชุณูู ูุบูุฑู ู ู ุณูู ุงููุทุฑุฉ- ุงูุฌุฒุก ุฑูู 1
ููุฌุจ ุฎุชุงู ุฐูุฑ ุจุฃุฎุฐ ุฌูุฏุฉ ุงูุญุดูุฉ ููุงู ุฌู ุน ุฅู ุงูุชุตุฑ ุนูู ุฃูุซุฑูุง ุฌุงุฒ ู ูุฌุจ ุฎุชุงู ุฃูุซู ุจุฃุฎุฐ ุฌูุฏุฉ ููู ู ุญู ุงูุฅููุงุฌ ุชุดุจู ุนุฑู ุงูุฏูู ููุณุชุญุจ ุฃู ูุง ุชุคุฎุฐ ูููุง ูุตุง ูุญุฏูุซ ุงุฎูุถู ููุง ุชูููู ูุฅูู ุฃูุถุฑ ูููุฌู ูุฃุญุธู ุนูุฏ ุงูุฒูุฌ ุฑูุงู ุงูุทุจุฑุงูู ูุงูุญุงูู ุนู ุงูุถุญุงู ุจู ููุณ ู ุฑููุนุง ูููุฒูุฌ ุฌุจุฑ ุฒูุฌุชู ุงูู ุณูู ุฉ ุนููู...www.islamweb.net
Thank you. I think you owe Baroness @Angelina an apology.I view it as a sunnah.