Just because we disagree with you, doesn't make us 'couch potatoes', insincere, or whatever other insult you lob our way.
Father of 16 children and husband of three wives. Quran teacher at day and taxi driver by night. Baidoa SWS.
- Thread starter mohamedismail
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Just because we disagree with you, doesn't make us 'couch potatoes', insincere, or whatever other insult you lob our way.
How dare you put such words in my mouth? The Prophet SAW didn't go around marrying women, for vanity purposes, nor did he marry them because they were young, or fertile. He married women who were widows or divorced women, in order to provide them with a better life. In fact, all of his children, except for one, were birthed by Khadijah!
The Prophet SAW was the best man on earth, and no man on earth is worth even a single inch of him.
I don't know who you think you are, but I'd appreciate it, if you didn't address me again. The gall and audacity.
Why is he having too many children when he doesnβt have the means to care of them
Men like him donβt deserve to breed
Men like him donβt deserve to breed
Thatβs akin to me saying since there are more poorer married women compared to poor divorced women simply due to numbers, we canβt talk about how single motherhood escalates poverty. Next time when people bring up poverty and single parent households Iβll remind everyone that statistically, especially back home there are more poor married people.
That point simply doesnβt make sense.
Everyone knows this. We all know there are various and I mean various other factors in play, but you canβt escape the fact that in African countries, poor men dabbling is definitely a contributing factor with regards to women and children becoming even poorer. Thatβs been my overall arching point.
Not that poly=poverty.
No one is talking about poly marriages being allowed since Allah the Almighty has allowed it. Youβre conflating many things here. We are talking about already poor communities engaging in. The main factor is that these communities are already poor and polygamy is making it even more difficult for them.
Leila
Wanaag iyo Dhiig kar
Only in Somalia will you find a family living in a jiingad and the father is off to marry another woman. Why doesnβt he at least try to get his children to live/be educated in a brick building?
That is my issue. You donβt read. Itβs like someone saying unfairness is also found in mono relationships so why is poly focused on? Itβs the same reason why affordability is more focused on in Poly relationships, simply because you need more money to sustain a poly marriages. How does poverty result in mono? Theyβre already poor? Even in Poly relationships doesnβt result in them becoming poor, they simply become poorer since they were already poor. Youβre not getting that simple point and youβre making me repeat myself. Itβs exhausting.
Yes you clearly are disputing it, since youβre asking why arenβt people focusing on Mono relationships. Iβve answered your question multiple times. Mono relationships are simply less challenging financially. Women in polygamous marriages on poor societies are poorer. Same way single mothers are poorer, despite also being a minority, yet I know youβd never argue this point.
The unfortunate reality is that countries with higher levels of poly are in fact poorer if we look at world statistics, but I donβt want to bring it up since I believe that other factors are also at play and societal poverty doesnβt really have much to do with marital status as their are other contributing factors. My whole point is that polygamy amongst the already poor makes them poorer. That is all and according to stats in Kenya for instance, poor women in poly unions are near enough 20% poorer than women in monogamous marriages.
Very I mean very stupid point. Can we all agree that kids in single divorced mother households are poorer than kids with two parents? But because people back home are poorer even when married, does that mean I can shut down conversation and argue that kids from married homes who constitutes the majority are also poor, hence we canβt talk about single mothers?
That is my issue. Youβre looking at the population in general and not understanding that whilst yes, everyone is poor others are at even an more disadvantage due to single motherhood or a poor man marrying again, but since the vast majority are indeed married and monogamous that doesnβt take away the fact that single motherhood or polygamous unions in poorer societies contributes to even more poverty.
My point is clear.
Can we say the same about single mothers? If I cared about poverty I wouldnβt single out how single motherhood also contributes to poverty but also talk married women right?
In all honesty, be honest does that argument make any sense? Because youβre making the exact same argument, but in regards to polygamy. Itβs simple a tactic youβre using to brush things under the carpet.
Are women and children of sympathy only when theyβre from single parent households? Iβll use that next someone tries to talk about single motherhood. Thanks for the dumb counter argument. Iβm sure it work on others.
You have a very and I mean very bad habit of comparing apples and oranges just to stifle conversations.
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Wallahi some of these posters are exhausting and their points are getting a tad illogical.
Heβs saying since there are more married women in mono marriages back home who are poor, that means we canβt talk about how broke men in poly marriages also fuel even more poverty. Nuance is lost to them
1. So according to @AdoonkaAlle since there are poor mono married women and theyβre the majority, we canβt talk about poor poly women.
2. I donβt think he realizes that mentality can be used in various issues. We canβt talk about how kids with no father figures are poorer since, there are poor kids with fathers. We canβt talk about how kids who are orphans are poor since there are more kids with a parent alive who are poor.
3. This is the can of worms one opens when they argue for the sake of arguing. Read properly young man and really take in your argument.
He is purposefully trying to derail the conversation, and it started with denying that polygamy is common among poor Somalis. In order to have a debate, people must agree on the topic at hand first, but he keeps using whataboutism like you so aptly noted.
Our words about financial accountability, are triggering some of these men, I suspect they fantasise about being polygamists one day, even if they are poor. Bringing in dozens of children, giving them the bare minimum, and convincing themselves that they are father of the year.
Itβs beyond derailing and misunderstanding. I have never said that polygamy causes poverty, because the poor men that engage in it drumrollβ¦β¦are already poor. My point is, they sink their families into even more poverty.
As for his argument as to why we are focusing on poor poly unions, despite the fact that marriages of poor people in the majority of cases are mono relationships, is because women in poly marriages are in fact poorerβ¦ in places like Kenya, theyβre near enough 20% poorer than women in monogamous unions. The same way single mothers are on average poorer than married women, despite poor married women being higher statistically, simply because most women are married rather than divorced.
I've read the study and you're more than welcome to tease a part the methods section or read the limitations. My point still stands: there is a correlation between educational attainment and acceptance of polygamy. I really don't care much about the psychosexual aspect, though you seem to be focused on that. I already know the adverse psychosocial impacts on women are mixed in metanalyse. I don't think I've ever seen a study compare women with impoverished polyamists and wealthy ones.
Many in Somalia live in extreme poverty. And a huge segment of the population are nomadic. Looking at Somalia and their generally low literacy levels among women and limited access to education. This would be a lower-income man's Valhalla as the customs of requiring far more lacaag which were required to be polygamous have been abandoned. This poor fellow is working himself to the grave to maintain 16 kids from 3 women. If he dies God forbid then there will be 3 widows who are even more impoverished perpetuating the cycle of poverty. Access to school in Somalia is a challenge for school-aged children with clear gender disparities. There are also disparities when comparing urban vs. rural educational outcomes.
It isnβt the most significant, especially in a poly marriage in which issues like economic issues, low self esteem and emotional and mental health is more paramount.
I think you focused on SD since the gap was probably smaller between women in monogamous marriages and poly marriages.
Again, SD isnβt the most important at all.
Letβs be real, when people focus on the impact of poly marriages on women, in terms of depression and low self esteem, itβs usually focusing on the first wives that bare the brunt of the emotional turmoil. You know this, hence why you compared women in mono marriages to 4th wives.
I was wondering why he kept on focusing on SD. Itβs funny how he completely bypassed the low literacy rates and low self-esteem and the list continues.I've read the study and you're more than welcome to tease a part the methods section or read the limitations. My point still stands: there is a correlation between educational attainment and acceptance of polygamy. I really don't care much about the psychosexual aspect, though you seem to be focused on that. I already know the adverse psychosocial impacts on women are mixed in metanalyse. I don't think I've ever seen a study compare women with impoverished polyamists and wealthy ones.
Many in Somalia live in extreme poverty. And a huge segment of the population are nomadic. Looking at Somalia and their generally low literacy levels among women and limited access to education. This would be a lower-income man's Valhalla as the customs of requiring far more lacaag which were required to be polygamous have been abandoned. This poor fellow is working himself to the grave to maintain 16 kids from 3 women. If he dies God forbid then there will be 3 widows who are even more impoverished perpetuating the cycle of poverty. Access to school in Somalia is a challenge for school-aged children with clear gender disparities. There are also disparities when comparing urban vs. rural educational outcomes.
AdoonkaAlle
Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
I don't know whether you're intentionally pretending not to get what i'm arguing about or it's simply a misunderstanding on your part. For the sake of clarify i'll repeat it again this time using that analogy of yours, poor married women vs poor divorced women. Now what you stated above isn't something that i'm disputing or the point of contention between your claims and mine.
The crux of your argument using the above analogy was to claim that poor divorced women/single parent is the cause of a country's poverty & my equivalent response using the same analogy is to draw attention to the selectivity of such a claim given the fact that poor married despite constituting the overwhelming majority of women in poverty aren't linked as the cause of a country's poverty. Why are poor divorced/single parent cited as a cause of a country's poverty but not poor married women even though these women are a minority ?
This is what you had to say about establishing the causal relationship between poor polygamous men and our country's poverty and backwardness
Could you please point out where exactly i've disputed that fact ? have me & you disagreed on this point no, have i called out for it nope. What i did however called you out on for was your claim that poor polygamous men causes a country's poverty & after asking you how come poor monogamous men despite being a majority doesn't cause a country to be poor. You failed to respond and backtracked on your original claims
The point wasn't about legality of polygamous marriage but whether or not such a marriage leads to a country being poor hence the example of usa etc. Do you believe if polygamy was legal in these countries and poor men in these societies engaged in polygamous marriages that this will lead to these countries being poor ?
Sax since the communities are already poor then logic dictates that we should focus on where the major issues are first, since majority of poverty rates are a result of poor monogamous marriages as opposed to polygamous ones then efforts should made to correct this first.
AdoonkaAlle
Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
I've read the study and you're more than welcome to tease a part the methods section or read the limitations. My point still stands: there is a correlation between educational attainment and acceptance of polygamy. I really don't care much about the psychosexual aspect, though you seem to be focused on that. I already know the adverse psychosocial impacts on women are mixed in metanalyse. I don't think I've ever seen a study compare women with impoverished polyamists and wealthy ones.
Many in Somalia live in extreme poverty. And a huge segment of the population are nomadic. Looking at Somalia and their generally low literacy levels among women and limited access to education. This would be a lower-income man's Valhalla as the customs of requiring far more lacaag which were required to be polygamous have been abandoned. This poor fellow is working himself to the grave to maintain 16 kids from 3 women. If he dies God forbid then there will be 3 widows who are even more impoverished perpetuating the cycle of poverty. Access to school in Somalia is a challenge for school-aged children with clear gender disparities. There are also disparities when comparing urban vs. rural educational outcomes.
Even when taking into account all of what you stated one would assume that the disparity between monogamous and polygamous women would be overwhelmingly huge yet the data results tells us otherwise on all the different parameters measured in the study. Equally more important is what the study was used to justify both in here and social media in general. You state that you weren't focused on the psychosexual yet you cited it can i ask why this is ? I was focused on it since it covers one of the most significant parts of the study
I get that polygamy isn't most women's cup of tea but this is different than blowing things out of portions and vilifying the practice itself. Attributing all manner of vices and whatnot simply because one doesn't like it
There's a lot we don't know about ninkas and his personal life other than the few details shared in that tweet laakin this didn't stop those vilifying conjuring waxaa walba simply due to their disdain for the practice.
That point wasnβt just about polygamy, it was about the mentality behind the idea of one marrying again whilst also not able to handle their current situation. This mentality isnβt limited to polygamy but about short sightedness and the inability to care or think about the future. I also mentioned politicians who will use up the countries wealth as they care more about filling their stomachs and focusing on the here and now without realizing that if theyβre honest and dedicated their time to build their nation, theyβd be able to get more in terms of financial perks not just for themselves but the masses in general.
My point about polygamy wasnβt literal, it was about the mentality behind it that fuels someone that has very little and instead of investing and saving, they bite of more than they can chew due to selfishness.
I never backtracked, since I wasnβt aware I made that point. For me, it wasnβt about the polygamy itself it was the mentality behind why they do it despite their inability to do so and I linked that mentality to the downfall of our nation and that short sightedness, that impulsiveness and that selfishness can be linked to various issues like tribalism, corrupt politicians who only care about lining their pockets ect. The overall issue is a lack of foresight.
My issue isnβt polygamy, it is poor men being irresponsible enough to engage with multiple women and in the US madow communities are all but polygamous minus the marriage and halal aspect and the sharing of men who donβt have the ability to provide for them is an issue of itself that does contribute to their poverty as does single motherhood which is interwined.
Is that the main factor or reason for their poverty? Of course not, but a stable family unit, results in a stable nation. Thatβs a fact and their marriage issues is seen as a huge financial problem in America.
How are you claiming the results of poverty is due to monogamous marriages? What logic are you using here? So youβre arguing with people for saying poor men practicing polygamy increases poverty, but now youβre making outlandish remarks that monogamy is?
Lol, itβs exactly as stupid as saying being married causes poverty since married people have higher rates of poverty than single mothers. Especially when we all know the data that single mothers are even poorer, even if they make a fraction of the general population.
Youβre flipping the narrative since most people are monogamous, but poor people in poly marriages are indeed poorer. Hence we should be focusing on people not being even poorer and that mothers and children donβt have to compete for scraps.
Sometimes I worry about your logic.
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Angelina, I think we both know why there was a critique of the psychometric properties of the survey instrument, first. Overlooking gender, economic and educational disparities which can contribute to reception to plural marriage.
He could have easily stated that 1 in 5 households in Somalia are polygamous and called it a day. Meaning that the majority are not. He could have easily come from the angle that the study could not disentangle the influence of FGM. That has a prevalence of 98-99% in Somalia and is classified as the most damaging type of infibulation (Type 3). That can cause chronic pain, poor quality of life, and higher maternal mortality and other birth complications. Bearing potential social, health and economic burdens, especially in resource-poor nations where it is more common.
AdoonkaAlle
Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
How wasn't it literal majority of your critique in that post was about polygamous men who do that instead of utilising their resources to better their current wife and children. It's towards the end that you include somali men in general and talk about such mentality seeping into other aspects of society
For argument's sake lets agree that you didn't mean it, why in the world were you arguing with me all this time & even quoted my reply to other sister who made such claims about the linkage between the two ? i just don't understand
I'm referring to poverty rates resulting from the comparison between poor polygamous vs poor monogamous marriages. Since poor monogamous marriages outnumber poor polygamous marriages, the former's poverty rates will be higher in comparison to the latter.
In our entire discussion i've consistently compared poor monogamous marriages/men vs poor polygamous marriages/men.
AdoonkaAlle
Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
Angelina, I think we both know why there was a critique of the psychometric properties of the survey instrument, first. Overlooking gender, economic and educational disparities which can contribute to reception to plural marriage.
He could have easily stated that 1 in 5 households in Somalia are polygamous and called it a day. Meaning that the majority are not. He could have easily come from the angle that the study could not disentangle the influence of FGM. That has a prevalence of 98-99% in Somalia and is classified as the most damaging type of infibulation (Type 3). That can cause chronic pain, poor quality of life, and higher maternal mortality and other birth complications. Bearing potential social, health and economic burdens, especially in resource-poor nations where it is more common.
I thought it was fairly obvious as to why i did that, the study used the three indexes to evaluate both the pyschosexual and pyschosocial status of the women. It literarily states so in the article
This is why i didn't delve much into income, education level etc as these were non-factors in determining both the psychosexual & psychosocial problems. There was no need to look at low self-esteem scores as they were more or less similar. BSI scores weren't that helpful as they just looked at 2 or 3 parameters even then the differences were relatively small just like the case with the FSFI scores.
