I agree. Still, they were of our stock. We all descend from agropastoral migrants into Middle Nile c. 5000BC, and so racially they were Cushites. Their burial practises even share overlap with ours, ultimately derived from some PPN funerary stela tradition prolly.
GENETICS Ethiopian aDNA (Axum n so n so)
- Thread starter Xareen
- Start date
I have never quite understood what the argument that early ppn weren't cushites.
Its one thing to say that were not descended from the same group. But the idea they fall within the same timeline and share our funerary traditions but are not cushites but some group we have no other evidence for strikes as me as a bit of stretch.
All comes down to confusion surrounding the ethnonym/metaethnicity/race that is "Cushites". Same thing with Nubia, where if Kermans spoke a NS language, apparently that makes it so we are completely unrelated. It's a shame, and sometimes I think almost intentionally made this way (why are we 'Cushitic' brah, what a shit name, bring back Erythraic) to obfuscate and muddy the waters so detractors can say silly shit while well-meaning hobbyists get confused too.
Garaad Awal
Former African
All those who were blabbing their mouth at me for being certain that the Harla were Ethio-Semitic speakers are now coping or silent. Futuh was very clear that these were two different ethnicities that also had hostilities. It barely mentions any clan beefs between the different Somalis (Darood, Isaaqs & Dir) yet mentions beefs with the Somalis & Harla.
I still don’t believe the Hararis are descendants of the Harla but rather medieval refugees fleeing the Oromos. The Harla tho were simply absorbed by the Oromos who absorbed Ethio-Semites all over the highlands in their expansions which also shows in their DNa.
I still don’t believe the Hararis are descendants of the Harla but rather medieval refugees fleeing the Oromos. The Harla tho were simply absorbed by the Oromos who absorbed Ethio-Semites all over the highlands in their expansions which also shows in their DNa.
Your saying harla ain't somali simple bc they aren't from ur qabiil if they are ur qabiil caawo dhan bad u cabaadi lahayd
Girri were beefing with the Marehan and that's why they sought the Imam to settle the dispute between them. Habr Maqdi was also being a nuisance to everyone around them. So your argument is kind of dogsh!t for why Harla couldn't be Somali.
Attachments
According to Somali tradition, the Harla lived all across northern Somalia even as far east as Bari. If they were Ethio-Semitic then why doesn't a single Somali clan from waqooyi have noticible Ethio-Semitic DNA? They would have to have been assimilated and absorbed and there is no proof Harla were killed off or underwent a genocide.
Riftvalley
VIP
I remember you (?) were pushing the Ethio semetic settlements deep into the north west. I think there is little evidence for that. Those archeological sites in the Harar plateau and around Abasa don’t suggest displacement of an Ethio Semitic group (or of any group for that matter). You also have to explain who made all those camel carvings and rock paintings in “Eastern Ethiopia”.
I also think you should not rush into agreeing with the amhaar. Your zeal in being right over other Somalis is pushing you into endorsing an extreme position. He wrote that the “adalites were Ethio Semites”. That is a big gigantic step removed from saying some Harla or all Harla were Ethio Semites. The Harla are actually an over exaggerated group and they were never some big civilisation or empire as mythology makes them out to be.
In fact, they are rarely mentioned as being anything extraordinary in the texts of the wars with the Habash prior to the Futuh. They were just one community or perhaps small principality who later came to be absorbed into Barr Sacad Diin aka the Walashama dynasty. If the Harla were so powerful the Imam would not have been chased around by the governor of Zeila and “his Somalis” at the beginning of the Futuh.
Adal at times encompassed large swathes of territory spanning across different communal groups and occupations. Somalis are deeply tied to the sultanate Adal. The Futuh alone proves that, as well as numerous medieval sources, and also Somali culture (through the zaylici poems sang about imam Sacidiin, lineage maintained, etc). Somalis were the conduit which linked the Yemeni Rasulid dynasty with East Africa. No other group has ties to early Islamic settlements such as Jabart and zaylac than Somalis. The Amhaar is making an extremely disingenuous argument when he superimposes Adal and Harla into one. Harla was not Adal vice versa. These groups were also all Muslims anyhow amd their nemesis has always been orthodox Amhara.
While the Futuh may suggest Somalis and Harlas as being two different groups, it also shows intermarriage between the two groups and deep ties of the Imam to Somalis. I don’t think you can say the Harla were completely replaced by Cushitic speakers when we see the Cushitic speakers mixing with them right there in the Futuh. Even we assume they were Ethio Semitic speakers or groups, no group is closely tied to them as Somalis.
Another side point people have to understand is that ethnicity did not function like it does now. Somali scholars often settled into pagan tribes or set up learning centres to advance Islam. When those scholars and elites married into those communities, their progeny became of them ie the community they settled into. This is the reason many of those groups like the Argobba et al claim descent from sheikhs who came from the Zeila-Berbera corridor; some of those sheikhs are possibly mentioned in the futuh. The point I am making is that, even those Ethio Semitic speaking Muslims have deep ties to Somali traders and ulema. The very name and nisbah given to East African Muslims came to known by (Saylic, Berberi, Jabarti) are linked and related to Somali scholars and islam.
I consider it nonsensical to divorce Somalis from the Adal sultanate because some Harla may have been Ethio Semitic. Sultanate barr Sacad Diin was much bigger than Harla.
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Riftvalley
VIP
Harla were mentioned twice before in texts prior to the Futuh. These texts relate to wars between Amharic kings and Muslims areas. From these texts we can deduce that Harla was a small principality, area or a tribal group who sent soldiers and leaders to the jihads. Other areas sent way more leaders and soldiers which shows they never held some mythical Harla empire together. Harla like many othersmall principalities was later taken over by the Walashama dynasty which later came to be known as Barr Sacad Diin or Adal to outsiders. The mythology developed around them has confused some people to think that Harla ruled Adal or lived in some continuous territory from Ethiopia to modern somaliland etc. if you look at the beginning of the Futuh you can see that leader of the Walashma dynasty is a Somali from Zeylac and the Imam has to flee from him.
Even if they were Ethio Semites, they were possibly bi lingual Somali speakers with very close ties to Somali speakers. The evidence of the imams maternal ties to Somalis in the Futuh and the linguistic heritage of Harari languages, containing a large number of Somali loan words in important areas, shows a continuous coexistence, if not neighbourly interactions, between Harlas and Somalis to at least the Middle Ages.
So the Harla were never as spread out as I thought? But shouldn't oral traditions have as much value as written ones? I've seen it pointed out numerous times that Somalis in the north attribute the many ruins and mosques to the Harla, kind of like how southern Somalis believe the Ajuraan build the ruins in their region.
For example
Riftvalley
VIP
Oral stories can be accurate, they can be halfway between truth and lies, or they can be outright nonsensical. Case in point: stories of Oromo building pre islamic megaliths in Somalia or Arab decent stories are completely nonsensical. No one claimed Yibir had a Jewish descent in the recent yet a lot of Somalis believe that these days. Oral stories have to been together with other evidences.
When westerners visited the Oromo in the 19th century, they found somali visitors being giving mules and other gifts due to their association with Sheikh Hussein Bali, the Somali wadaad who established Islam amongst the people in the area.
The point I am making is that DNA of individuals in certain localities can not explain who “adalites” were; that is, when we see processes of elite conversion; the importance of trading elites and the Abaans systems, and, the fluctuation of religions as evidenced in the Futuh. Somalis are present at the heart of Adal Sultnate as chiefs, scholars, knights, and in other functions. Somalis were also conduits of Islam deep into eastern and southern Ethiopia as traders or islamic scholars. Why would Imam Ahmad waste his time writing letters to Somali tribes when he had all these Ethio Semitic Muslim warriors at his disposal.
Whoever the Harla were, Somalis as a group had as much prominence, if not more much more of a connection with the sultanate/s. Even if DNA proves Harla were Ethio Semites, it does not mean “Adalites were Ethio Semites”. This is the important point for me. I don’t like the disingenuous nature of the Amhaar guy. The Harla possibly being of Ethio Semitic does mean they or a dna relic sample means they compromised all of Adal. Harar doesn’t not even get mentioned until a later period nor was the Harla heartland of particular importance until the establishment of the capital at Harar ( started as a nomadic watering point according to some locals btw)
. Harla were pure Somali clan stop misleading people xabashi
I don’t know why u so invested in this, isaaqs weren’t even part of al futuh
Garaad Awal
Former African
There’s even evidence that the first capital of Dakar might have been near modern Aw-Barkhadle in Central SL according to Sada Miire who found a walled city near the site. Ifat & Adal were essentially states that emerged from modern SL, areas that has always been dominated by Cushitic speakers
Garaad Awal
Former African
Habar Magaadle were mentioned. I doubt mirqaans like you can read & understand Arabic tho. The same Habar Magaadle that brought far more troops (2200 men) than the mere 700 men you brought and your leader not even being mentioned. Stop begging for attention blackie
There’s more likelyhood they were other dir groups or yabarray Darood then Isaaq who were either too small to contribute anything or were sidelined Miskiins, Al futuh was more of darood dominated and few karankle hawiye then anything else, even in u own word of these supposed isaaq landheere went extinct, even in u fantasy they can’t make it
There is an ancient town in Sool and the European explorers in late 1800s interviewed the local Dhulbahante who said that the people who settled there were called “Harli”. Division between "Somali" and "Harla" is clearly nomadic vs settled. The propaganda of the colonialists is clear, but it gives some insight:
"At Badwein, in the centre of that part of the Nogal Valley which is occupied by the Arasama sub-tribe, we discovered extensive ruins of an ancient city, and close by a large tank quarried out of the gypsum rock. The deserted ruins covered an area of about 40,000 square yards, choked up with cactus and aloes, the haunt of leopards and hyasnas. Most of the houses have been reduced to mounds of stone and rubble, covered with straggling mimosa bushes, but here and there the walls of houses were better preserved. We rode into one house, whose walls stood some 10 feet high, and found it divided into many partitions, the building being in the form of a parallelogram, with sides 200 feet long and 100 feet wide. Curious niches hero and there would seem to have been used as fire-places.
Seeing these things, we listened with respect to the Somali legend of a civilised people who had long passed away before the onset of the savages whose guests we now were. The Somalis said this civilised people cultivated all the lands around, and occupied large cities, that they could read and write, and that when their (the Somalis') fathers came to the country, many buildings bore traces of writing which had long since been worn away by the work of time. They called the people " Harli," and said they were there prior to the Gallas.
The latter had dug the rocky wells at Kirrid which we saw on first entering the country, and had cut a rude Christian cross in the face of the cave—■ the only ancient sign existing of a rude form of Christianity in the land. We tried to decipher what was said to be writing on the pillar of a doorway ; but it waB impossible to make out any lotters, as the surface of the gypsum stones, of which all the houses were built, had become much decomposed by the action of rain, and looked spongy, like pumice-stone. We rode with our party of Dulbahantas in amongst the ruins, out of one house into another, and, standing on high heaps of debris, let our eyes range over a landscape dotted with crumbling grey walls imbedded in clumps of aloes and cactus. As we picked our way among the fallenblocks, we disturbed a herd of deer feeding inside the remains of an old building, and everywhere guinea-fowl, of the species called vulturine, scuttled out of our path. We wished much to dig amongst the ruins for ancient pottery, etc., but wero prevented from doing so by the suspicion and prejudice of our hosts, who consider any tampering with these places as sacrilegious. There were many old graves, some of which seemed to be built in the form of a cross; they were plastered over with a mortar composed of pounded gypsum and water. The Dulbahantas now make their graves in the same manner, only Moslem in design; always in the vicinity of water, as certain rites, for which water is necessary, have to be carried out. In some cases dead men are carried, strapped on camels, long distances in order to be buried near water.
We much wished to remain some days and explore tbis dead city, but various sub-tribes of Dulbahantas were very uneasy and suspicious of our intentions, so we thought it advisable not to prolong our stay. They could not understand why we roamed about in desolate places instead of accepting the hospitality of their wandering camps, where the whole place was infested with camel-ticks ; and having seen us working the theodolite, they credited us with designs of presently bringing an army to take the country. They dissuaded us as well as they could from proceeding to tho out-of-the-way peaks we had fixed upon as points of observation, and placed many obstacles in the way, assuring us we should be attacked by savage tribes, and that we were going into a country utterly waterless, that our camels would be devoured by lions, etc. Seeing, however, that we went all the same, and discovered water in spite of them, they gave up the attempt, and we were better friends after."
Expedition to the Nogal Valley
Lieutenant E. J. Swayne
Published in London, by John Murray, 1893
The manuscript says straight up "and the Yabarre who are Habar Majdi". That is a literal translation of the part in yellow.
The Habar Majdi/Maqdi had two leaders: Garaad Dhaaweed and Ahmed Guray ibn Hussein al Somali.
Ahmed Guray is called the leader of the Yabarre and is also called the leader of the Habar Majdi/Maqdi. Meanwhile, Garaad Dhaaweed is only referred to as the leader of Habar Majdi/Maqdi. Garaad Dhaaweed was Bartire, and is the ancestor of the present day Garaad of the Absame Garaad Kulmiye. Habar Majdi/Maqdi was simply the name of the Jidwaaq at that time. A uterine alliance. This is very similar to the way that MJ, Warsangeli and Dashiishe were once a single clan called Habar Majeerteen.
This idea that Habar Maqdi/Majdi is Isaaq is false. They are not in the Futuh at all. IM Lewis' poor Arabic started this whole problem.
Source: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10073757q/f45.item#
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