Omar del Sur
VIP
@Omar del Sur lets have a show down secularist vs islamist? why u hiding waryaa, we coming for u boys to debunk Islam
if you want it, let's do it.
I'm willing to answer whatever question you have.
I'm not really trying to go on the offense or debunk atheism.
I like to research stuff but I don't really consider myself a debater and I'm only responding to your challenge.
If you want to bring any point, I'm willing to discuss it- but everything is on the condition that it doesn't just become a pure insult contest. I'm fine with debating people but my problem is that a lot of debating on the internet is just pure swapping insults. I'm not trying to debate people on the basis of who has the better comedy skills. I think insulting people is against the Quran and so of course I'm not out to be the best person when it comes to insulting others and so I don't want to be in that kind of competition.
If you want a sort of intellectual debate, let's do it, I'm fine with it, I don't mind it.
Are other people free to jump in and help defend the Islamic point of view or this is strictly one-on-one?
Islamically, I think it is good for people to defend the Islamic view but I also believe in fairness and I do think it might be unfair if tons of people are ganging up on you. So I'm fine with either it being open to whoever or being one-on-one.
Anyways, if you want a debate, let's do it. You issued the challenge, I'd prefer you bring up the first issue but if you insist I'm willing to try bringing up the first issue.
But I'm kind of with Plantinga on what he says here
Of course, I'm not agreeing with his specific theology but I agree with what he's saying in that.... for me, proof of God is stuff like contemplating existence, looking at trees, thinking about creation, etc.....
for me, faith is a sort of..... almost like a personal otherworldy experience....
it's kind of like a dream, for example........
I might experience a dream, I know what I experience
but for example if I have a dream and I see a person handing me a certain kind of food.... and I wake up and later that day someone randomly hands me the same kind of food that I saw in my dream..... do I really have a video I took of the two events (one in the real-world and the other in a dream)? did I film and I have it on YouTube? no.
and that's sort of in the nature of reality imo.
God reveals Himself to you if you He wants to do so. God guides you if He wants to do so.
you can't write out a math equation on a napkin and make someone believe in God. neither can the atheist write a math equation on a napkin and disprove God.
Is there anything in Python or JavaScript that disproves God? Any lines of code that disprove God? Anything in math? Any arithmetical equations? Any equation you can write on a napkin. "Science has disproved God," the atheists say. Well in what year specifically did science disprove God?
Who do we credit with the discovery? What scientist in what what experiment in what year in what culture did it?
I mean isn't it pretty big? Discovering the lightbulb is pretty big and we honor Mr. Thomas Edison (or Tesla, if it was Tesla).
But I think scientists disproving God is a lot bigger than putting together a lightbulb. That would be quite an achievement!
So if scientists disproved God, shouldn't we honor the scientist who did it?
Was it Isaac Newton? Galileo? Ancient Greeks? An Arab scientist of the Islamic Golden Age? Maybe a South Asian? Chinese? A JavaScript developer finally discovered lines of code that disprove God?
If a scientist has done it then who specifically was it? Let's identify him so we can shower him with adulation and learn from his life.
Was it Oppenheimer? Steven Hawking? Some scientists- or people who claim to speak for science- are claiming a big discovery. Well, let the scientists back it up.
Aren't the atheists supposed to be champions on horseback fighting in the way of science? Then why haven't the atheists rectified what would clearly be an injustice and have identified which scientist with which experiment disproved God so that we can make movies about him and name our first-born sons after him?
the atheists cannot actually disprove God. with them, it is about psychological techniques rather than the logic that they claim to esteem so much.
it is about mockery and repetition with them. they cannot actually prove their position by pure argument.
that's why they have the "sky daddy" cliches" and they tend to be very insulting. genuine religious people are polite and friendly. the atheists come in a way where a lot of it just about insulting you.
I mean that's my thing.....
if the atheists really represent logic then why is so much of their preaching based on insulting religion and religious people?
if you look at programming languages, math or even construction work (building a house is not very different than building a software program).....
those kinds of things are actual representations of things based on pure logic. pure logic is something like a programming logic.
the atheists talk like they are the "Salafis"of logic but they don't actually live it. if they really actually followed the sort of pure logical thinking they claim they follow then they wouldn't need to rely on insults and repetition. what they use is more based on psychological techniques than it on pure logic.
in any case, like I said- I think faith is a very personal thing..... of course religion has social elements but faith itself is in your heart..... so the idea of trying to whack anyone over the head or "own" that person in an argument in order to make them become Muslim..... that kind of thinking is alien to me....
but if you'd like to make any points and you'd like me to answer them, I don't mind as long it's an intellectual sort of discussion
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