"Dr. Osman" Debate

Every time I debate my super religious friends, none of them can actually say why they oppose secularism. They always try to tie it with atheism and gay rights lol. The protections we've been given in the west to practice our religion under secularism are better than under Sharia
 
Every time I debate my super religious friends, none of them can actually say why they oppose secularism. They always try to tie it with atheism and gay rights lol. The protections we've been given in the west to practice our religion under secularism are better than under Sharia
Sec.png

This is enough for you.

As Muslims, we are required to follow sharia law aka Law of Allah.
 
@DR OSMAN ive told Somalis about the importance of banks and funding entrepreneurs, they go crazy when they hear ribba. They want free loans or some Islamic finance that doesn’t exist. Even Saudis have interest charging.
 

Villainess

smooth talk on a rainy summer evening
@DR OSMAN ive told Somalis about the importance of banks and funding entrepreneurs, they go crazy when they hear ribba. They want free loans or some Islamic finance that doesn’t exist. Even Saudis have interest charging.
What’s wrong with them wanting no intrest? It’s a scam
 

DR OSMAN

AF NAAREED
VIP
@DR OSMAN ive told Somalis about the importance of banks and funding entrepreneurs, they go crazy when they hear ribba. They want free loans or some Islamic finance that doesn’t exist. Even Saudis have interest charging.
Tell them their salaries in the west are from ribbah origins, if they work for a company or anywhere that gives them money, this money came from business person investing money which he most likely secured from a bank, so at the end of day, it's pointless they reject it.

Ribbah is profit on top of the loan, no-one is going to give u free money and then u return the same amount back heck just 'inflation' each year would mean u lossed money by returning the same, that's not a business model. A good business model should include loans that include natural inflation yearly plus a margin on top for profit, that margin will be determined by how competitive banks are because u won't go above what is market rates.

Do they think when they go to the market they are not doing ribbah by increasing the prices of their good, they call that halal profit, well my money is a commodity just like a product also, u won't get it for free. If there was no ribbah, walahi their would be no market place. Why u think somalis can't become middle class, u need banks loaning to average workers who then invest in a property, forget funding entrepreneurs, a basic worker has no way to secure funds to build a home for himself.

Lack of banking culture among the locals is what makes Somalis poor, they prefer 'aid or remittance' just basket cases, they want to be 'spoon fed' by another person, which creates 'dependence' and when u stop spoon feeding him, he goes and becomes a famine.
 

DR OSMAN

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@DR OSMAN ive told Somalis about the importance of banks and funding entrepreneurs, they go crazy when they hear ribba. They want free loans or some Islamic finance that doesn’t exist. Even Saudis have interest charging.
There is not much justification for what they believe in Islam except that it's tradition or some sheikh said so. They can never prove anything they believe, they say 'i hear and i obey' should tell u, there is no room for analysis in Islam, it's really a cult
 

DR OSMAN

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@Omar del Sur u didn't respond to the following problems in Islam

1. Allah forgives sin but never forgives satan
2. Allah punished satan for disobeying his orders to bow to adam yet bowing to anyone outside of allah is unforgiveable sin, Satan was stuck in a dead-end, doomed if he does, doomed if he doesn't.
3. Allah is unknowable to Muslims, yet they pray to something that is unknowable. U might as well pray to to nothingness
4. Deeds vs Sin. Your god weighs up sins like it's ok for u but not ok for satan to be judged like that. How does deeds work logically, u say allah has everything, so what can u give him he doesn't have? illogical statement to suggest muslims must do something for this allah like prayer, fast, charity, when he doesn't need it
5. Hadith teaches women are 50% intellectually inferior, there is no substance in this statement, yet they hold it to be a 'truth' even after science can show and proof to them in a lab setting there is no biological difference between men and women intelligence. That is when faith is guiding his heart not his actual mind anymore, this is what I deem a cult or dogma.
6. Why does your quran sound like it's a man talking, why would every surah start like it's prayer 'in the name of allah, the magnificient' lol. Why would Allah say that about himself? that sounds like someone is writing human prayer and then recounting 'ancient stories'. At least the bible admits it is from other human sources documenting it. Quran says it is direct word of god, it doesn't appear to be something a direct god would say.
 

DR OSMAN

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@Omar del Sur If u can hold a conference for muslim worshippers, why can't these guys do the same for disbelievers in Somalia.



PS - demonstrate anything can be created without going thru the steps of evolution, u can't omar, u can't even prove a 'tree' can automatically appear, without going thru natural steps first. So we can conclude the whole universe was totally natural based on this evidence
 
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DR OSMAN

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This is Omar in Somalia while me with the board sign



Why should Disbelief be given less rights then this god seeking maniac? Belief n Disbelief will stand side by side forever as god ordained it, no-one can change it, now let's secure the right of the disbelievers
 

Omar del Sur

FAKEDEMIC = COMMUNISM
VIP
This is Omar in Somalia while me with the board sign



Why should Disbelief be given less rights then this god seeking maniac? Belief n Disbelief will stand side by side forever as god ordained it, no-one can change it, now let's secure the right of the disbelievers
Thank you for demonstrating for my point.

the atheists cannot actually disprove God. with them, it is about psychological techniques rather than the logic that they claim to esteem so much.

it is about mockery and repetition with them. they cannot actually prove their position by pure argument.

that's why they have the "sky daddy" cliches" and they tend to be very insulting. genuine religious people are polite and friendly. the atheists come in a way where a lot of it just about insulting you.



I mean that's my thing.....

if the atheists really represent logic then why is so much of their preaching based on insulting religion and religious people?

if you look at programming languages, math or even construction work (building a house is not very different than building a software program).....

those kinds of things are actual representations of things based on pure logic. pure logic is something like a programming logic.

the atheists talk like they are the "Salafis"of logic but they don't actually live it. if they really actually followed the sort of pure logical thinking they claim they follow then they wouldn't need to rely on insults and repetition. what they use is more based on psychological techniques than it on pure logic.
And as per the terms on which I agreed to a debate- the debate is concluded.

but if you'd like to make any points and you'd like me to answer them, I don't mind as long it's an intellectual sort of discussion
 

DR OSMAN

AF NAAREED
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Thank you for demonstrating for my point.



And as per the terms on which I agreed to a debate- the debate is concluded.
You never responded to one of my points about Islam. U r running in shame from a disbeliever, u want to hide yourself among the cult where they say 'I hear I obey' where-as if put to the test what u believe, it all comes crashing to the ground
 
Rooble at least you are not hypocritical. These muslims love the fruits of secularism such as medicine, tech, engineering, science, entertainment, but they hate secularism itself :pachah1:

The govt promotes shariah law as the law of the land yet they sure love that ribbah loans from the IMF, these people are confused. They sure love all that western charities which also is ribbah origins, waan cuna bakhti lakin dalka laguma hukumi karo is insanity. They don't even allow commercial banks to operate in Somalia that is ribbah yet the govt n charities are all ribbah based currencies. They even use the dollar oo laftigeeda ribbah saaran.

Major contributors to the foundations of Science and scientific progress were religiously affliated whether they were Jewish, Christian, Polytheists(Greeks) and Muslims. Your claim of secualrism being the impetus for progress is a false claim. The claim has no historical support.

- Galileo - Devout christian who disagreed with the church dogma.
- Isac Newton - Obsessively religious and was looking for mathematical proof of the day of judgement. He also had disagreements with Chruch dogma
- Pascal - the man behind the famous wager of faith
- Ibnu Hathim - The famousmuslim phycisist who made an impact on optics. Was an engineer, philosopher and mathematician. Persecuted by the muslim ruler in his day
- Copernicus - the man who intriduced to the west the concept of Heliocentrism - He was a church man and religious but had a fall-out with the church over his findings.


Churches used to invest in science to advance Church dogma. The findings often backfired on the institution and their scientists were arrested or executed, nonetheless, the motivation to invest in science by religious institutions was the norm.
 
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@Omar del Sur u didn't respond to the following problems in Islam

1. Allah forgives sin but never forgives satan
2. Allah punished satan for disobeying his orders to bow to adam yet bowing to anyone outside of allah is unforgiveable sin, Satan was stuck in a dead-end, doomed if he does, doomed if he doesn't.
3. Allah is unknowable to Muslims, yet they pray to something that is unknowable. U might as well pray to to nothingness
4. Deeds vs Sin. Your god weighs up sins like it's ok for u but not ok for satan to be judged like that. How does deeds work logically, u say allah has everything, so what can u give him he doesn't have? illogical statement to suggest muslims must do something for this allah like prayer, fast, charity, when he doesn't need it
5. Hadith teaches women are 50% intellectually inferior, there is no substance in this statement, yet they hold it to be a 'truth' even after science can show and proof to them in a lab setting there is no biological difference between men and women intelligence. That is when faith is guiding his heart not his actual mind anymore, this is what I deem a cult or dogma.
6. Why does your quran sound like it's a man talking, why would every surah start like it's prayer 'in the name of allah, the magnificient' lol. Why would Allah say that about himself? that sounds like someone is writing human prayer and then recounting 'ancient stories'. At least the bible admits it is from other human sources documenting it. Quran says it is direct word of god, it doesn't appear to be something a direct god would say.

1&2 - Conditions for forgiveness, as you would expect yourself when you offer forgiveness to someone who wronged/disrespected you, include sincere repentance and willingness on the part of the forgiveness seeker to want to be forgiven. If someone is not interested in your forgiveness when you give them a chance, then the fault lies with the person. It is a choice.

Satan was given a chance by God when Allah directly asked him: What prevents you to prostrate for Adam? Note how Allah did not punish Satan immidiately upon disobeying the order but rather Allah asks Ibliis the reason so Ibliis could explain his objections. Also, in the same opportuniy, Ibliis asked for an extension of life and not to Die till the end of time, so he willfully opted to something other than forgiveness of Allah. He made his desire clear and threatened the man and his progeny whom he considered his enemy( Adam and humans). In your twisted logic then, Allah is at fault but not the Individual/Ibliis who had plenty of opportunity to change his position in the presence of Allah, who Ibliis himself acknowledges to be his Lord.
 
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Villainess

smooth talk on a rainy summer evening
@Omar del Sur u didn't respond to the following problems in Islam

1. Allah forgives sin but never forgives satan
2. Allah punished satan for disobeying his orders to bow to adam yet bowing to anyone outside of allah is unforgiveable sin, Satan was stuck in a dead-end, doomed if he does, doomed if he doesn't.
3. Allah is unknowable to Muslims, yet they pray to something that is unknowable. U might as well pray to to nothingness
4. Deeds vs Sin. Your god weighs up sins like it's ok for u but not ok for satan to be judged like that. How does deeds work logically, u say allah has everything, so what can u give him he doesn't have? illogical statement to suggest muslims must do something for this allah like prayer, fast, charity, when he doesn't need it
5. Hadith teaches women are 50% intellectually inferior, there is no substance in this statement, yet they hold it to be a 'truth' even after science can show and proof to them in a lab setting there is no biological difference between men and women intelligence. That is when faith is guiding his heart not his actual mind anymore, this is what I deem a cult or dogma.
6. Why does your quran sound like it's a man talking, why would every surah start like it's prayer 'in the name of allah, the magnificient' lol. Why would Allah say that about himself? that sounds like someone is writing human prayer and then recounting 'ancient stories'. At least the bible admits it is from other human sources documenting it. Quran says it is direct word of god, it doesn't appear to be something a direct god would say.
The last part.
“Why does your quran sound like it's a man talking, why would every surah start like it's prayer 'in the name of allah, the magnificient' lol. Why would Allah say that about himself? that sounds like someone is writing human prayer and then recounting 'ancient stories'. At least the bible admits it is from other human sources documenting it. Quran says it is direct word of god, it doesn't appear to be something a direct god would say.”

to remind the ummah how merciful he is. The bible doesn’t even admit that humans wrote it, they always tell you that it’s god’s words. Have you been living under a rock? Who else wrote the Quran, seeing that it wasn’t even compiled into a book until after Muhammad’s death. He was illiterate and the Quran was sent over a period of times. The Quran also has so much predictions and truth that a human couldn’t have wrote.The Quran contains scientific knowledge that could not have been known 1400 years ago. It ranges from basic arithmetics to the most advanced topics in astrophysics. You are invited to go through those miracles and judge for yourself.
 
@Omar del Sur u didn't respond to the following problems in Islam

1. Allah forgives sin but never forgives satan
2. Allah punished satan for disobeying his orders to bow to adam yet bowing to anyone outside of allah is unforgiveable sin, Satan was stuck in a dead-end, doomed if he does, doomed if he doesn't.
3. Allah is unknowable to Muslims, yet they pray to something that is unknowable. U might as well pray to to nothingness
4. Deeds vs Sin. Your god weighs up sins like it's ok for u but not ok for satan to be judged like that. How does deeds work logically, u say allah has everything, so what can u give him he doesn't have? illogical statement to suggest muslims must do something for this allah like prayer, fast, charity, when he doesn't need it
5. Hadith teaches women are 50% intellectually inferior, there is no substance in this statement, yet they hold it to be a 'truth' even after science can show and proof to them in a lab setting there is no biological difference between men and women intelligence. That is when faith is guiding his heart not his actual mind anymore, this is what I deem a cult or dogma.
6. Why does your quran sound like it's a man talking, why would every surah start like it's prayer 'in the name of allah, the magnificient' lol. Why would Allah say that about himself? that sounds like someone is writing human prayer and then recounting 'ancient stories'. At least the bible admits it is from other human sources documenting it. Quran says it is direct word of god, it doesn't appear to be something a direct god would say.
3- Allah made himself known to mankind throught their existence by sending books and messengers among them. Muslims are no different in that Allah introduced himself to them the same way he did before with others, through the Quran and his last messenger. It is proof enough for those who contemplate.

In case you meant that you personally can not know God and would prefer meeting him in person for you to believe, No human being was granted such privellege before. You aren't that special saxib. Prophet Moses peace be upon him once out of Love and eagerness wanted to see Allah and requested from Allah to remove the barrier between them so Moses can see Allah. We read in the Quran what happened next and how Moses fainted at the sight of a mountain dissolving in a terrifying ways. Perhaps we have no abilities to withstand the appearnace of Allah almighty in this life time. Islam teaches beleivers who make to Heaven will be honored to see Allah's face, an honor that has no match.

Better thinking for you would be to accept your imperfections and ignorance saxib. Then seek knowledge and understanding with that humility. Isla waynin cidla ah yaa kaa muuqda. Adigoo aqoon yar ayaad isu haysataa inaad garasho dheer leedahay. Damiinimo iyo islawaynin are deadly combination.
 

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