"Dr. Osman" Debate

[KillStreakIsCool]

@Omar del Sur u didn't respond to the following problems in Islam

1. Allah forgives sin but never forgives satan
2. Allah punished satan for disobeying his orders to bow to adam yet bowing to anyone outside of allah is unforgiveable sin, Satan was stuck in a dead-end, doomed if he does, doomed if he doesn't.
3. Allah is unknowable to Muslims, yet they pray to something that is unknowable. U might as well pray to to nothingness
4. Deeds vs Sin. Your god weighs up sins like it's ok for u but not ok for satan to be judged like that. How does deeds work logically, u say allah has everything, so what can u give him he doesn't have? illogical statement to suggest muslims must do something for this allah like prayer, fast, charity, when he doesn't need it
5. Hadith teaches women are 50% intellectually inferior, there is no substance in this statement, yet they hold it to be a 'truth' even after science can show and proof to them in a lab setting there is no biological difference between men and women intelligence. That is when faith is guiding his heart not his actual mind anymore, this is what I deem a cult or dogma.
6. Why does your quran sound like it's a man talking, why would every surah start like it's prayer 'in the name of allah, the magnificient' lol. Why would Allah say that about himself? that sounds like someone is writing human prayer and then recounting 'ancient stories'. At least the bible admits it is from other human sources documenting it. Quran says it is direct word of god, it doesn't appear to be something a direct god would say.

4 - Nowhere in Islam do muslims learn that their acts of worship, charity, spirituality and self descipline adds anything to Alllah or takes from him. It is the opposite and what human beigns do that is good in fact helps both themselves and others. Allah rewards the deeds and doesn't gain anything out of it. It is actually silly to think the God who owns all between the heavens and earth needs to be given something from his own possession. And that is not a mindset in Islam or muslims. It is your confusion saxib. Muslims are clear about it and have no confusion about what their deeds and acts of worhsip mean to Allah.

5- I don't know about a Hadith that teaches 50% intellectual inferiority of women to males.

 

[Invader]

To be quite fair I tried explaining what secularism is to a few of the guys I hang around with and their reaction has been nothing short of disappointing. But you're right, tolerance, tolerance, tolerance. Seems like the only trait enforced in all major religions yet everyone seems to ignore it.

Secularism is not the thing for Somalis.

It screwed Somalia over

 

[Program]

Good thing there's a few of us secularists on this site

 

[Rooble44]

Secularism is not the thing for Somalis.

It screwed Somalia over

Correction: Somalis and their 68 IQs screwed Somalia over.

 

[Invader]

Correction: Somalis and their 68 IQs screwed Somalia over.

Yes. The government was run by an atheist dictator who had no morals and sympathy even after ordering the killings of entire tribe.

 

[Invader]

Look at North Korea @Rooble44 .

Atheists run the country and have no morals to go against what they're doing.

Religion keeps this in order to prevent things to go downhill.

 

[Villainess]

Look at North Korea @Rooble44 .

Atheists run the country and have no morals to go against what they're doing.

Religion keeps this in order to prevent things to go downhill.

Religion is the one thing that is actually helping somalis. Without Islam somalis would be running around raping even more kids. Islam brought ceeb culture too.

 

[QueenofKings]

I have 2 q for secularists,

Most ‘Secular’ country laws already have a religious origin. So what is the difference between a state law saying you must not kill vs a religious book saying the same thing.

And by which criteria do you deem secular law to be > than religious law.

 

[Rooble44]

Look at North Korea @Rooble44 .

Atheists run the country and have no morals to go against what they're doing.

Religion keeps this in order to prevent things to go downhill.

Why didn't religion keep Somalia in order or at least help it recover? I mean how many years has it been since Barre was overthrown?

 

[DR OSMAN]

I have 2 q for secularists,

Most ‘Secular’ country laws already have a religious origin. So what is the difference between a state law saying you must not kill vs a religious book saying the same thing.

And by which criteria do you deem secular law to be > than religious law.

Secular means people decide on laws usually grounded in human rights principle, we don't impose laws of god at the state level or else this would breach free will of a human being. If something is a law then there is no choice, which I find truthful. I don't know what justification you have for judging people on religious matter when it's none of your business. It not a state crime if your atheist or disbeliever unless of course the state is god.

 

[KillStreakIsCool]

Why didn't religion keep Somalia in order or at least help it recover? I mean how many years has it been since Barre was overthrown?

Clan. Stronger draw for Somalis than Islam when it comes to politics and governance. Islam considers tribal bigotry and its associated injustice to be pre-islamic practice. Somalis selectively apply Islam and choose to ignore what Islam says about clan politics. Blame falls squarely on Somalis then. Not Islam.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Rooble44 it's funny how these guys mention freedom means u can do crimes against people, they as usual forget the freedom we are talking about is personal choice, liberty, freedom of religion.

Who is passing laws to legalize murder, their just dodging that their religion rejects freedom for all and equality for all so they try to circumvent this by saying 'freedom' is wrong you can do crimes under freedom. Crimes are defined by human rights as a breach of someone right to safety and life and property, it's already defined clearly that u cannot breach someone life nor their property.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Clan. Stronger draw for Somalis than Islam when it comes to politics and governance. Islam considers tribal bigotry and its associated injustice to be pre-islamic practice. Somalis selectively apply Islam and choose to ignore what Islam says about clan politics. Blame falls squarely on Somalis then. Not Islam.

Islam introduced tribe, your prophet was born of a tribe, his society was all tribal. He didn't come to eliminate tribe but he encouraged it and say 'identify' yourselves with it. That's why bilal al habash, salman al farsi, and many others were 'identifed' by their origins in their name. In Oman u will see many majertenis and darodis identifed by their origins also. Islam encouraged that clan exists. It ensured that society remains set up tribally at all times not this 'muslim ummah' nonsense that islamist go around with, that would've been furthest from the truth of mohamed.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Thank god for secularism, we finally reached the finally milestones in Somalia

1. U can't cut off people's hand for theft
2. U can't stone people
3. U can't do slavery
4. Women are considered equal before the law and state

Why doesn't the parliament in Somali acknowledge this is in clear contrast to Islam, why are these laws not applied in parliament, remember the constitution says anything that isn't islamic cannot be a law, why are all these laws conveniently missing today in Islam?

The fight remains to allow the following

1. Freedom of religion
2. Freedom of sexual preferences
3. Freedom of alcohol, zina, and pork.

The only three things left of your Islam in Somalia law is the above, the rest is secular waryaa.

3

 

[KillStreakIsCool]

Secular means people decide on laws usually grounded in human rights principle, we don't impose laws of god at the state level or else this would breach free will of a human being. If something is a law then there is no choice, which I find truthful. I don't know what justification you have for judging people on religious matter when it's none of your business. It not a state crime if your atheist or disbeliever unless of course the state is god.

Many of the laws written through secular legislation align with religious laws. The punishments imposed by the systems may be different. A serial killer will be executed or given life in prison by most societies be they religious or secular.

 

[Villainess]

Thank god for secularism, we finally reached the finally milestones in Somalia

1. U can't cut off people's hand for theft
2. U can't stone people
3. U can't do slavery
4. Women are considered equal before the law and state

Why doesn't the parliament in Somali acknowledge this is in clear contrast to Islam, why are these laws not applied in parliament, remember the constitution says anything that isn't islamic cannot be a law, why are all these laws conveniently missing today in Islam?

The fight remains to allow the following

1. Freedom of religion
2. Freedom of sexual preferences
3. Freedom of alcohol, zina, and pork.

The only three things left of your Islam in Somalia law is the above, the rest is secular waryaa.

3

LOLLL the last 3 things you are fighting for is absolutely insane. Somalis are crazy enough, adding alcohol and zina to the list will make them go ballistic. Do you really want somalis to walk around drunk and rape women? Haha!

 

[Villainess]

I like @DR OSMAN he's so funny without even trying lolll it makes me giggle

 

[KillStreakIsCool]

Islam introduced tribe, your prophet was born of a tribe, his society was all tribal. He didn't come to eliminate tribe but he encouraged it and say 'identify' yourselves with it. That's why bilal al habash, salman al farsi, and many others were 'identifed' by their origins in their name. In Oman u will see many majertenis and darodis identifed by their origins also. Islam encouraged that clan exists. It ensured that society remains set up tribally at all times not this 'muslim ummah' nonsense that islamist go around with, that would've been furthest from the truth of mohamed.

Tribe predates prophet Mohamed pbuh and Islam. So your statement of the prophet introducing tribe is unfounded. In addition to this, History of the Arabs prior to Islam was one of savagery and tribal injustice. Prophet Mohamed changed that through Islam and replaced it with brotherhood in faith. This is recorded in Seerah/Biography of the prophet pbuh, For the first time over 200 hundred years, clans who were at loggerheads and bloodied each other stopped fighting and held hands in faith after the emergence of the prophet and introduction of Islam to the savage Arabs.

There is no place for tribal bigotry in Islam and the prophet clearly spoke against it. Opposite of your claim, he declared it pre-Islamic and said whoever practices clan bigotry is not among Muslims.

As for associating individuals with their place of Origin, by saying Salman farisi, or Bilal Habashi, that is common even today. Has nothing to do with tribal bigotry.

Almost everything you say about Islam is contrary to Islam. Perhaps you never opened an Islamic book ever in your life. Why pretend you are arguing from an informed position when all you write can be proven wrong effortlessly?

 

[DR OSMAN]

I like @DR OSMAN he's so funny without even trying lolll it makes me giggle

There is no law that says you have to be muslim in Somalia, there is no law that says you will be jailed for not being muslim either. U can be atheist-christian-jewish and set up your own places of congregation as long as you don't preach it to the public

 

[Villainess]

There is no law that says you have to be muslim in Somalia, there is no law that says you will be jailed for not being muslim either. U can be atheist-christian-jewish and set up your own places of congregation as long as you don't preach it to the public

Ok.. so what’s your point lol. This is contradicting everything you said Dr Osman