Debate a Communist

[Radical]

I'm bored and only have two hours,

And please try harder than the tired argument of 'b-but USSR' Which is the equivalent of a clueless cadaan judging all of Islam through Isis

 

[Helios]

Do you believe in the communal or state control of the means of production AND consumption

^ this is communism

 

[Soomaaliweyn]

Do you believe if everyone can't have it, no one can have it?

 

[Radical]

Do you believe in the communal or state control of the means of production AND consumption

^ this is communism

Communal, state control is a slippery slope towards fascism

 

[Radical]

Do you believe if everyone can't have it, no one can have it?

Communism does not argue that everyone should be paid the same

 

[Soomaaliweyn]

Do you believe communism would work for every state?

 

[Helios]

Communal, state control is a slippery slope towards fascism

So you want to recreate primitive socialism in a modern form

Fascism? That's a different thing entirely its a mixed economy + a totalitarian nationalist government

 

[Guure]

I will support communism, when they add state mandated girlfriend provided by the government. I believe its a basic human right, together with Healtcare, Housing and education.

 

[Golden Barbie]

I'm bored and only have two hours,

And please try harder than the tired argument of 'b-but USSR' Which is the equivalent of a clueless cadaan judging all of Islam through Isis

I have read Karl Marx’s “communist manifesto” I am a Marxist and I despise capitalism, however I don’t like a lot about communism too . So I’m in the middle I guess!

 

[Radical]

So you want to recreate primitive socialism in a modern form

It's not primitive, quite the contrary in fact, I see you've been conditioned to deem anything out of the status quo as 'primitive', the Capitalist society will do that to you

When I say communal I mean something like The Mondragon Corporation which is made up of democratic worker cooperatives that operate in a very innovative and unique fashion. Each co-op is owned by its workers, and controlled democratically by its worker-owners. The worker-owners decide who of them will manage their co-op, what everyone's wages will be, etc.

Each co-op supports and is supported by the Mondragon "co-op of co-ops". Mondragon uses the dues paid by the co-ops to run social programs providing education and health care in their communities. It also facilitates lending of funds between member co-ops, and the movement of worker-owners from co-ops that are shrinking to ones that are growing.

The results look stellar. Income inequality is much smaller, with the pay disparity between the lowest-paid and the highest-paid workers in the 1:4 to 1:9 range (compared to 1:300 in the US, for example). The co-ops survived the downturn in the Spanish economy much better than unaffiliated corporations. Unemployment in the areas where Mondragon is much better than in the rest of Spain: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-19213425.

 

[Radical]

I have read Karl Marx’s “communist manifesto” I am a Marxist and I despise capitalism, however I don’t like a lot about communism too . So I’m in the middle I guess!

It's great that you're very open minded, no system is completely perfect, but I believe the cons are much greater in capitalism

 

[Helios]

It's not primitive, quite the contrary in fact, I see you've been conditioned to deem anything out of the status quo as 'primitive', the Capitalist society will do that to you

When I say communal I mean something like The Mondragon Corporation which is made up of democratic worker cooperatives that operate in a very innovative and unique fashion. Each co-op is owned by its workers, and controlled democratically by its worker-owners. The worker-owners decide who of them will manage their co-op, what everyone's wages will be, etc.

Each co-op supports and is supported by the Mondragon "co-op of co-ops". Mondragon uses the dues paid by the co-ops to run social programs providing education and health care in their communities. It also facilitates lending of funds between member co-ops, and the movement of worker-owners from co-ops that are shrinking to ones that are growing.

The results look stellar. Income inequality is much smaller, with the pay disparity between the lowest-paid and the highest-paid workers in the 1:4 to 1:9 range (compared to 1:300 in the US, for example). The co-ops survived the downturn in the Spanish economy much better than unaffiliated corporations. Unemployment in the areas where Mondragon is much better than in the rest of Spain: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-19213425.

No I meant "primitive socialism" as in the early social groupings humans used before proper states emerged - or as it's theorized to be so thousands of years ago. Tribal groups that shared resources and had general equality. Its not propaganda its an actual term

I see what you mean its like the soviet councils. I was reading about the worker's communes in Baku for a paper its quite interesting. The oil worker's soviet councils were key to the governance of the city. Its like syndicalism in a sense

 

[strawberrii]

Do you believe in the communal or state control of the means of production AND consumption

^ this is communism

Communal, not state

 

[Helios]

Communal, not state

Is communal the form you like?

 

[strawberrii]

Is communal the form you like?

Yeah

 

[Radical]

Yeah

Hello comrade

 

[SOULSEARCHING]

 

[Genesis]

Wherever communism has been adopted, it's largely failed. Why would a Marxist regime work this time?

 

[Radical]

Wherever communism has been adopted, it's largely failed. Why would a Marxist regime work this time?

It's become a cliche now but real communism has never been achieved. money doesn't exist in communism as it's by definition, a wageless, stateless, classless society, so any examples of "failed communist countries" (an oxymoron) are actually socialist states or states with communism as their endgoal and they've never achieved true communism because 1. they've been targeted by the US, and 2. it's a global effort. As long as there are capitalists, they will try to maximize profits, which means busting unions and privatizing resources (which translates to destabilizing countries that nationalize industries)

 

[Genesis]

It's become a cliche now but real communism has never been achieved. money doesn't exist in communism as it's by definition, a wageless, stateless, classless society, so any examples of "failed communist countries" (an oxymoron) are actually socialist states or states with communism as their endgoal and they've never achieved true communism because 1. they've been targeted by the US, and 2. it's a global effort. As long as there are capitalists, they will try to maximize profits, which means busting unions and privatizing resources (which translates to destabilizing countries that nationalize industries)

Do you think this will ever be achieved?