Are most of somalis mixed with levantine?

[tariq moses]

E-M78 is not Egyptian and that map is outdated and wrong.

E-M78 is from the Maghreb. This finding is set in stone due to finding ancient genomes literally a generation or two removed from when the E-M78 mutation occured.

E-M78 is Egyptian, its presence in the Maghreb is just proof of recent Egyptian ancestry, which would probably explain some of the cultural similiarties shared between paleolithic egypt/sudan and the maghreb, some of which, are older in egypt, indicating migration from there, and why they show some craniofacial similarities to people from north east africa, if E-M78 is Maghrebi than why does Taforalt make up so little of North East African peoples ancestry? The maghreb is not a major source of ancestry for East Africans, it probably isn't even a minor one.

Judging by your previous usage of E3b and now this oudated map, it looks like your knowledge of anthropology is 20 years stuck in the past.

Who cares if i use E3b its not that deep lol, you haven't said anything convincing that proves what I said wrong.

The Hadza do not even have haplogroup E natively. Their original lineage is haplogroup B. You will not find any haplogroup E in ancient genomes from pre-Cushitic HGs of Tanzania. All the E they have is either recently from Cushites (mainly E-M293 -people like the Datooga nearby) or Bantus (mainly E-M2).

When did I say Hadza had E natively or whatever? Please quote me.
I said, E-M215/E-M35 originated in the Horn of Africa, but that population would have ultimately come from North Africa and carried a Eurasian-like autosomal ancestry.
They would have absorbed some Mota/Hadza related ancestry and moved North into Egypt again, we know for a fact that Natufians were part Egyptian which would explain the presence of Mota-like ancestry

Lastly, the Taforalt do not have Omotic ancestry proper. Their SSA-like ancestry is called Ancestral North African and isn't related to East Africans for literally tens of thousands of years. Even in K= autosomal studies, it quickly dissipates the moment the K is cranked up just slightly higher.

They are modelled as part Hadza, Daniel Shriner was able to model them as 7% Omotic.
Hadza people can be modelled as 86% Omotic.
Hadza, Mota and Omotic all share a common ancestor that had a presence in Paleolithic Ethiopia.
There ancestry is found in the Natufians, a partly Egyptian people, attesting to the presence of Mota/Hadza related ancestry in Paleolithic Egypt.

As for Omotic people, they are not ancestral/basal to North African Afro-Asiatic people. The only undisputed Omotic lineage is E1b1a2 (E-M329) and that one is not related to other AA lineages for 40,000 years and is not relevant to the Afro-Asiatic language family whatsoever.

I never said they were basal to North Africans, idk where you got this from. I explicitly said:

I predict proto-Afro asiatic speakers would be predominantly Natufian/Taforalt related and/or rich in Basal Eurasian with some Mota/Hadza related ancestry and maybe some Dinka.

 

[emonrah]

I've literally went to a rabbit hole this week about this, there's just so many stories it is hard to verify. Often reminds me of a book series I've read. I forgot the title I will share when I remember

 

[Shimbiris]

Bantus show significant ethnic somali ancestry though. In this thread a somali bantu girl showed 14% Somali ancestry. If she has that it means mixing happened and maybe she has some distant causing who went on to become majority Somali after a few centuries

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/somali-bantu-23andme-results.108849/

Yes, and I'm willing to bet that's how it will remain; mostly them showing the admixture and not Somalis as mixed people most likely got outcasted and accepted more by reer madowweyne similar to Blacks in America. Anyway, I'm just recounting what I've seen. I've been in this genomics game for over a decade now and seen many people from all over the south's results; it is very rare to see legit Bantu admixture. And what others are saying with these people also often showing Desi admixture and such is true which implies they got it from Cadcads rather than actual Bantus.

 

[Sophisticate]

Yes, and I'm willing to bet that's how it will remain; mostly them showing the admixture and not Somalis as mixed people most likely got outcasted and accepted more by reer madowweyne similar to Blacks in America. Anyway, I'm just recounting what I've seen. I've been in this genomics game for over a decade now and seen many people from all over the south's results; it is very rare to see legit Bantu admixture. And what others are saying with these people also often showing Desi admixture and such is true which implies they got it from Cadcads rather than actual Bantus.

They often get this admixture indirectly. I think people fail to get that the Cadcads and even many Arabs were more open to mixing with Bantus than mainstream Somalis. It's not rocket science.

 

[Som]

They often get this admixture indirectly. I think people fail to get that the Cadcads and even many Arabs were more open to mixing with Bantus than mainstream Somalis. It's not rocket science.

True. Barwani cadcads even adopted a Swahili dialect as their language

 

[Nalaaye floxks]

They often get this admixture indirectly. I think people fail to get that the Cadcads and even many Arabs were more open to mixing with Bantus than mainstream Somalis. It's not rocket science.

Nothing wrong with mixing with bantu

 

[Sophisticate]

Nothing wrong with mixing with bantu

If that's your preference go ahead. Just don't project as not all share those views.

I'm also speaking of mainstream Somali cultural taboos, so put this in context.

 

[Moholin01]

I don't disagree with you that, genetically, Omotics just seem Cushitic/Ethiosemitic admixed. In fact, you can quite decently model Aris as a two-way between Somalis and Mota for the most part:

(model included Mota, Somalis, Tigrinyas and Dinkas)​

E-M35 and J1 lineages among them I would wager are also all Cushitic and Ethiosemitic mediated but this is just interesting, really. It says nothing about the linguistic issues. Omotic being Afro-Asiatic is a linguistic matter and in that case it does seem to be so. Why Omotics don't seem congruent with other AAs genetically is a matter that is for us to figure out after knowing this.

@The alchemist is also correct that Omotic is basically the earliest cut-off within Afro-Asiatic. The way I understand the latest structuring as that linguist told me is that AA looks like this:

Omotic seems to have cut off the earliest by quite a bit so that may account for the complete genetic break.

Interesting hypothesis. I would've have thought that Chadic and Amazigh were more related to eachother and Semitic and Egyptian were most closely related. With Cushitic and Omotic being the most distant.

But the diagram suggests that Cushitic-Semitic-Amazigh form one cluster and Egyptian-Chadic form another cluster. Which seems quite odd. Your friend's theory must be controversial?

 

[Shimbiris]

Interesting hypothesis. I would've have thought that Chadic and Amazigh were more related to eachother and Semitic and Egyptian were most closely related. With Cushitic and Omotic being the most distant.

But the diagram suggests that Cushitic-Semitic-Amazigh form one cluster and Egyptian-Chadic form another cluster. Which seems quite odd. Your friend's theory must be controversial?

It's apparently not. It seems to be how things are perceived nowadays from what I gather. Egyptian being closer to Semitic and Amazigh or Chadic being closer to Amazigh is pretty outdated stuff. Egyptian and Chadic are seemingly the youngest cut-offs and may also form a node together, that I know is common knowledge nowadays. Cushitic being particularly close to Semitic and Amazigh surprised me but it does seem to be the case from looking around. This is from as far back as 2001:

And Omotic being the earliest cut-off is pretty uncontroversial.

 

[tariq moses]

Mota carried Natufian related ancestry whilst having little to no neanderthal, this can't be explained via Cushitic or Ethio semitic speakers.
Omotic speakers don't have enough neanderthal to account for their Eurasian related ancestry.
Some of it is clearly due to mixing with paleolithic North East Africans. Omotic/Mota isn't as genetically cut off as most ppl think.

 

[Sane]

I like to flex my centarian status on 23andme. I do it to irritate @Shimbiris who has 1% Ethiopian other. Hence, the condolences.

That's true. Somalis had greater taboos against them than the dhegocase that would more easily integrate them and their offspring provided the father was dhegocase. While Somalis largely did not and preferred to only assimilate the children of Oromo or Habeshi concubines as Somali.

Most of those outlier Somalis with South East African or Congolese usually got it indirectly through having some recent genetic connection to Cad Cads, Barwanis or Dhegocase that have Bantu or Niger-Congo admixture. Or might be a sheegato or anomaly from the rivine region of Southern Somalia. Interestingly, I have come across some Somalis in the North that have trace amounts of South Asian but an absence of Niger-Congo admixture that you'd normally find in Cad Cads and Barwanis from the South. You'll find random stuff on 23andme.

What's your qabiil @Shimbiris

 

[Shimbiris]

What's your qabiil @Shimbiris

Dishiishe. Here's a visual rendition of all my qabiil lines:

Spoiler

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Gonna get a big Y test soon, though. Want more detail than V32.

 

[NFD]

Trollingka jooji. Almost no one has any "Bantu" outside of some Degoodi saaxiibs. 0.something 23andme "Southeast African" in some reer Koonfur is nothing. I'm mostly north-central and have no "Bantu" when you run stuff like G25 and even I show decimal point SE African. It's clearly more a result of there being Horner admixture in them making some Somalis show decimal point results for the component.

Some Degoodis? Share those receipts. I'd love to get in contact with the many Degodias in general yall seem to come across that I havent and that has some of you speaking out of turn on qabils you know little about.

I would have 0 issue with bantu ancestry because I'm not anti-black which has some of you trying to pass the buck in a way you wouldnt had it been any other ancestry particularly Arab but we as Degodias are almost entirely surrounded by Somalis and the Boranas we have come to neighbor in our most recent history. We also don't have a history of close contact with bantu groups or slaveholding heritage. Let me know.

 

[Long]

Some Degoodis? Share those receipts. I'd love to get in contact with the many Degodias in general yall seem to come across that I havent and that has some of you speaking out of turn on qabils you know little about.

I would have 0 issue with bantu ancestry because I'm not anti-black which has some of you trying to pass the buck in a way you wouldnt had it been any other ancestry particularly Arab but we as Degodias are almost entirely surrounded by Somalis and the Boranas we have come to neighbor in our most recent history. We also don't have a history of close contact with bantu groups or slaveholding heritage. Let me know.

They love saying shit about garre’s and degodia’s walaal

what part of NFD are you from. I’m reer Mandera

 

[NFD]

They love saying shit about garre’s and degodia’s walaal

what part of NFD are you from. I’m reer Mandera

Garres and Degodis but never Marehan or the Ogaden who we neighbor and I also have in my ancestry. So transparent. I'm from Wajir.

 

[Long]

Garres and Degodis but never Marehan or the Ogaden who we neighbor and I also have in my ancestry. So transparent. I'm from Wajir.

It’s cause we have a small number of us in the west and on forums. So they just assume shit they hear or see. That’s why we usually get picked on in forums. Half of the time they most likely never even met a degodi or garre in real life. They pick and choose what qabil has madow iyo oromo in them

 

[Qeelbax]

Somsli Galbeed have also Bantu admixture. I think some rahsnweyn have some Bantu admixture, so but not Marexaan and Hawiye.

Yah….No.
I came back 100% and no one came back with bantu/arab. It was all 95+% somali with very small minority with minority Ethiopian/eritrean

 

[Dima&Damo]

My Aancestral Dance

 

[Apollo]

^ Cringe.

 

[Nilotic]

^ Cringe.

He must be joking because there is simply no way anyone could look up to 3rd world cultures -- especially when they're bedevilled by war, famine, poverty and ignorance.

This might sound unbearably coonish, but the West is best -- and I would very much like to adopt their professional and Governing philosophies, principles, structures, institutions and processes; I would be in favour of retaining our languages, dance and food, but everything else would be on the chopping block.