Anyone kind of sad we don't have more written history about ancient Somalia
- Thread starter Lone Wanderer
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Prince of Lasanod
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Clan overrides nationalism
Hi, Grant.
The only living indigenous people in Somalia outside of Somali's (whether Sab or Samaale) are the Eyle. Everyone else has either moved into the land in more recent times or has been brought in as slaves.
Regardless, they are Somali nationals at this point and our fellow Muslims and countrymen.
Now, can you explain what spurred your interest in Somali culture and discussing our origins? I find it very fascinating as we're not the most well known ethnic group out there
Another thing, what do you think is the origin of modern day Somali's? Some say Ethiopia, Sudan, Egypt? I'm very interested to hear other opinions on this.
Hi Luna,
I have fought with others on here over the Eyle. The claim was that they were Samaales., which, of course, the archaeological record denies.
The same would be true for the Midgan. The Yibir probably don't have the same depth of settlement but certainly preceded the Samaales. Other earlier settlers would include the Shidle, Shabelli, Makaane, Gobuweyn, etc.
I distinguish between Somalis and Samaales. The Samaales are part of a pastoral people, the Berbers (B1b1b), who evolved in the Sahara when that dessert was still a verdant savanna.. They domesticated cattle and later added sheep and goats brought from the Levant.. As the Sahara dried out, these folks moved to the wetter coasts and especially into the Nile valley and surrounding grazing lands. The lower Nile produced Egypt, but the upper Nile produced Kush, which was also a high and very early culture. They mined gold and produced iron very early. But their cities were destroyed by various invaders over time and they were eventually defeated and eclipsed by the rise of Axum, all of which gave rise to migrations. The Southeastern Cushites
were at Namoratunga, west of lake Turkana in Kenya, in 300 BC. The Proto-Sam were probably the first of this group to cross the border into Somalia.
http://countrystudies.us/somalia/3.htm
"The Somalis form a subgroup of the Omo-Tana called Sam. Having split from the main stream of Cushite peoples about the first half of the first millennium B.C., the proto-Sam appear to have spread to the grazing plains of northern Kenya, where protoSam communities seem to have followed the Tana River and to have reached the Indian Ocean coast well before the first century A.D. On the coast, the proto-Sam splintered further; one group (the Boni) remained on the Lamu Archipelago, and the other moved northward to populate southern Somalia. There the group's members eventually developed a mixed economy based on farming and animal husbandry, a mode of life still common in southern Somalia. Members of the proto-Sam who came to occupy the Somali Peninsula were known as the so-called Samaale, or Somaal, a clear reference to the mythical father figure of the main Somali clan-families, whose name gave rise to the term Somali.
The Samaale again moved farther north in search of water and pasturelands. They swept into the vast Ogaden (Ogaadeen) plains, reaching the southern shore of the Red Sea by the first century A.D. German scholar Bernd Heine, who wrote in the 1970s on early Somali history, observed that the Samaale had occupied the entire Horn of Africa by approximately 100 A.D."
I was a victim of the stories that were told at independence, that the Somalis were Arab/Dir hybrids and spoke a single language. I was taught Mahaa, but sent to a Maay/Boon-speaking area, and then isolated for most of a year. Frankly, it was intellectually uncomfortable and left me in a most confused state.
When I discovered somnet in 2005 I jumped on the chance to research the issues that had bothered me. I also use the topics that are raised as the basis for research. Menace has even put me in contact with friends from the 60's, so I push on.
I am too old now, but it was always my intention to retire to Jilib.
I have fought with others on here over the Eyle. The claim was that they were Samaales., which, of course, the archaeological record denies.
The same would be true for the Midgan. The Yibir probably don't have the same depth of settlement but certainly preceded the Samaales. Other earlier settlers would include the Shidle, Shabelli, Makaane, Gobuweyn, etc.
I distinguish between Somalis and Samaales. The Samaales are part of a pastoral people, the Berbers (B1b1b), who evolved in the Sahara when that dessert was still a verdant savanna.. They domesticated cattle and later added sheep and goats brought from the Levant.. As the Sahara dried out, these folks moved to the wetter coasts and especially into the Nile valley and surrounding grazing lands. The lower Nile produced Egypt, but the upper Nile produced Kush, which was also a high and very early culture. They mined gold and produced iron very early. But their cities were destroyed by various invaders over time and they were eventually defeated and eclipsed by the rise of Axum, all of which gave rise to migrations. The Southeastern Cushites
were at Namoratunga, west of lake Turkana in Kenya, in 300 BC. The Proto-Sam were probably the first of this group to cross the border into Somalia.
http://countrystudies.us/somalia/3.htm
"The Somalis form a subgroup of the Omo-Tana called Sam. Having split from the main stream of Cushite peoples about the first half of the first millennium B.C., the proto-Sam appear to have spread to the grazing plains of northern Kenya, where protoSam communities seem to have followed the Tana River and to have reached the Indian Ocean coast well before the first century A.D. On the coast, the proto-Sam splintered further; one group (the Boni) remained on the Lamu Archipelago, and the other moved northward to populate southern Somalia. There the group's members eventually developed a mixed economy based on farming and animal husbandry, a mode of life still common in southern Somalia. Members of the proto-Sam who came to occupy the Somali Peninsula were known as the so-called Samaale, or Somaal, a clear reference to the mythical father figure of the main Somali clan-families, whose name gave rise to the term Somali.
The Samaale again moved farther north in search of water and pasturelands. They swept into the vast Ogaden (Ogaadeen) plains, reaching the southern shore of the Red Sea by the first century A.D. German scholar Bernd Heine, who wrote in the 1970s on early Somali history, observed that the Samaale had occupied the entire Horn of Africa by approximately 100 A.D."
I was a victim of the stories that were told at independence, that the Somalis were Arab/Dir hybrids and spoke a single language. I was taught Mahaa, but sent to a Maay/Boon-speaking area, and then isolated for most of a year. Frankly, it was intellectually uncomfortable and left me in a most confused state.
When I discovered somnet in 2005 I jumped on the chance to research the issues that had bothered me. I also use the topics that are raised as the basis for research. Menace has even put me in contact with friends from the 60's, so I push on.
I am too old now, but it was always my intention to retire to Jilib.
Hi, Grant.
The only living indigenous people in Somalia outside of Somali's (whether Sab or Samaale) are the Eyle. Everyone else has either moved into the land in more recent times or has been brought in as slaves.
Regardless, they are Somali nationals at this point and our fellow Muslims and countrymen.
Now, can you explain what spurred your interest in Somali culture and discussing our origins? I find it very fascinating as we're not the most well known ethnic group out there
Another thing, what do you think is the origin of modern day Somali's? Some say Ethiopia, Sudan, Egypt? I'm very interested to hear other opinions on this.
He wants to empower them through fake history. So, they "The minority (most of them are Bantu)" can justify their revolt and violence against us in the future. They will believe that they are true First Or original people of Somalia.
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that articles contradicts many of what you say, weren't you arguing gabaweyn/shabeele being non-bantu negroid instead of "originally speakers of cushitic languages" ? article even includes "some bantus" as indigenous people.
You're the one who claims the Eyle are Samaale.
I never claimed them but they became somalized through out time. However, their numbers are couple of hundreds.
"A second minority category includes the diverse group of farmers who are not ethnic Somalis, living in much the same areas as the Rahanweyn and Digil. They include remnants of indigenous peoples, some of them originally speakers of the Cushitic languages (such as the Shebelle and Gabaweyn) and some Bantu. These peoples are mostly culturally assimilated to the Rahanweyn. The other groups are descendants of former slaves who established enclaves in the 19th century, chiefly in the Lower Shebelle and Lower Jubba valleys. Originally having retreated to the tsetse-infested woodlands on the riverbanks where no pastoralists ventured, they are often collectively known as WaGosha, "forest people". Many of these communities retain Bantu languages.
Two subgroups of the Bantu minority deserve special mention. One is the Bajun fishing people of the southern coast, an indigenous minority, and the second is the former slave communities on the northeastern coast."
The vocabulary is a bit confusing. "Bantu" is a linguistic determination that is confined to the Mushunguli and the other enslaved tribes brought from Bantu-speaking areas to the south. The Jaraeerweyn never spoke Bantu languages and preceded the Samaales. To a degree, the two groups have intermingled in some areas, which is also confusing the issue. The "Some Bantus" are clearly not indigenous.
Rahanweyn Are Somalis and they have all their rights in Somalia(hold very powerful positions in country, plus we intermarried with them)
There is no dispute here. The Reewiin are Samaale. The native negroid populations ....."living in much the same areas as the Rahanweyn and Digil. They include remnants of indigenous peoples, some of them originally speakers of the Cushitic languages (such as the Shebelle and Gabaweyn)".
Grant the people had debunked you several times in this issue.
Canuck,
This topic doesn't debunk any more than the Omo-Tana explanation for the Samaale origin. The experts are agreed. History is not written to satisfy your political aspirations.
This old man @Grant is perpetuating #CushiticGenocide. Trying to claim Somali history as Bantu/Khoisan history.
I assume you mean "perpetrating". Perpetuating means to continue. And, no. You have it backwards. The Eyle at one time controlled the entire Buur Heybe-/Buur Hakaba area and defeated both the Maadanle and the Ajuraan. According to Canuck they are now down to about 200 individuals.
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