While I get Oral Traditions, I would like it better if they actually wrote down information so it can be seen by us today.
Anyone kind of sad we don't have more written history about ancient Somalia
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I wouldn't care about any of those type of things. Hell, I wouldn't care if the afternoon pasttime was pray to a dead rat. History is history and it's very interesting to learn about our ancestors.What sort of info? We wuz nothing nada, I thank the Lord we didn't embarrass ourselves writing about killing each other and looting camels
I agree too wallahi, it's so sad.
very sad (so much info has been lost) :/
plus I'm a visual learner-if i see/read things I'll retain it very easy. as for orally, goes through one ear and out the other
plus I'm a visual learner-if i see/read things I'll retain it very easy. as for orally, goes through one ear and out the other
There are several problems with Somali history. The primary one is that the oral history contradicts the linguistic, genetic and archaeological evidence. The next most significant is that the "history" created at independence to support national unity was, simply, false. Somalis have multiple genetic and linguistic roots. Religion has not, historically, been unitary. Qabiil has been shown to be confederation rather than lineage, And the age of settlement of the dominant Samaale clans is not deep. The Hawiyya followed the Shabelle out of the Ogaden, arriving at the Indian Ocean coast at Merka by the 12th century. The Darood and Isaaq clans form in the 12th-13th centuries and proceed to conquer the Yibir (Ibro), who were settled in the area of Aw Barkhadle, and the Midgan-Gaboye further east and south.
It's the politics that keeps everything intentionally confused. By claiming other people's history, the pastoral clans claim the whole territory, where historically they only occupied the grazing lands outside the tsetse-infected areas, and not all of those until late in the 20th century. Both the Eyle and the Gosha defeated Samaale incursions and drove them from their holdings. At some early point. historians are going to have to begin to distinguish between Somali and Samaale. Lumping them together confuses everything.
This history is by Ali Qasim:
http://qasimart.yolasite.com/mogadishu-1600-2011.php
Among other things, it has a photo of a Himyarite inscription in Mog.
For earlier history:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1525/aa.1955.57.6.02a00460/pdf
https://tvergasteinjournal.wordpress.com/peter-gufu-oba-rock-art-pastoralists-in-the-horn-of-africa/
For general historical issues:
http://shcas.shnu.edu.cn/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=mIT6VhON6/c=&tabid=12805&mid=31237&language=zh-CN
It's the politics that keeps everything intentionally confused. By claiming other people's history, the pastoral clans claim the whole territory, where historically they only occupied the grazing lands outside the tsetse-infected areas, and not all of those until late in the 20th century. Both the Eyle and the Gosha defeated Samaale incursions and drove them from their holdings. At some early point. historians are going to have to begin to distinguish between Somali and Samaale. Lumping them together confuses everything.
This history is by Ali Qasim:
http://qasimart.yolasite.com/mogadishu-1600-2011.php
Among other things, it has a photo of a Himyarite inscription in Mog.
For earlier history:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1525/aa.1955.57.6.02a00460/pdf
https://tvergasteinjournal.wordpress.com/peter-gufu-oba-rock-art-pastoralists-in-the-horn-of-africa/
For general historical issues:
http://shcas.shnu.edu.cn/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=mIT6VhON6/c=&tabid=12805&mid=31237&language=zh-CN
Somali city-states had connections with the Romans and the Indians. We were aware of different technological advancements, especially writing. That's why even though we were so close to the Arabian peninsula, that was overflowing with language scripts, we did not adopt theirs.
The lack of political centralisation made it impossible for Somalis to benefit from the Industrial Revolution. In such a climate it would have been unimaginable to adopt new technologies.
Somalis may have had a written script, but they surely did not use it. This is due to the fact that the economic institutions if there were any, created no incentives for people to adopt these technologies.
We can use the example of the Kingdom of Taqali, roughly in modern Sudan. They Kings had access to writing in Arabic, but it was not used, except by the Kings for external communication with other policies and diplomatic correspondence. Same for the Sultanate of Mogadishu, when Ibn Battuta mentioned that he was from Berbera and was fluent in both Somali and Arabic.
taken from Naomi Klein's - "Why Nations Fail"
We may not have had a written chronicle of our history, but we sure had the best maritime history of the world. We were pirating since the time of the Romans, Travelling to Europe and China, Arabia and Mozambique.
Now that's an achievement!
The lack of political centralisation made it impossible for Somalis to benefit from the Industrial Revolution. In such a climate it would have been unimaginable to adopt new technologies.
Somalis may have had a written script, but they surely did not use it. This is due to the fact that the economic institutions if there were any, created no incentives for people to adopt these technologies.
We can use the example of the Kingdom of Taqali, roughly in modern Sudan. They Kings had access to writing in Arabic, but it was not used, except by the Kings for external communication with other policies and diplomatic correspondence. Same for the Sultanate of Mogadishu, when Ibn Battuta mentioned that he was from Berbera and was fluent in both Somali and Arabic.
taken from Naomi Klein's - "Why Nations Fail"
We may not have had a written chronicle of our history, but we sure had the best maritime history of the world. We were pirating since the time of the Romans, Travelling to Europe and China, Arabia and Mozambique.
Now that's an achievement!
Prince of Lasanod
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Raxanweyne, Madhibaan are all genetically and culturally Somalis. The Gosha are slaves imported by Somalis to work on our farms, the Bantu expansion has never reached NFD let alone Jubba/Shabelle.
There is no ethnic group in the world as inbred and homogeneous as Somalis. We may be divided along clan lines, but so was the entire WORLD except Europe. The whole concept of ethnic nationalism/nation state is a EUROPEAN concept which was forced upon the whole world by your racist people to exploit resources.
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Prince of Lasanod
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These two men are apparently not Somali and come from an entirely different ethnic group according to him.
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These two men are apparently not Somali and come from an entirely different ethnic group according to that filthy, racist, colonist, white pedophile:
Prince,
The Reewiin were some of the earliest Samaale groups to enter Somalia. Maay is believed to be the parent of Mahaa. You have clearly not read what I have posted. It is the Eyle, Midgaan, Shidle, Shabelli, Gobuweyn, Yibir, Bajunni, etc. who are not Samaale. This in addition to coastal folks of Persian, Arab, Indonesian and some Portuguese extraction.
If you wish to make assertions of my ignorance, such as this, you really need to document them.
Prince,
The Reewiin were some of the earliest Samaale groups to enter Somalia. Maay is believed to be the parent of Mahaa. You have clearly not read what I have posted. It is the Eyle, Midgaan, Shidle, Shabelli, Gobuweyn, Yibir, etc. who are not Samaale. This in addition to coastal folks of Persian, Arab, Indonesian and some Portuguese extraction.
If you wish to make assertions of my ignorance, such as this, you really need to document them.
The Hamarite language (Semitic) in Jabal Geel Laq ( Hamar weyne) 1216
http://qasimart.yolasite.com/mogadishu-1600-2011.php
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Prince of Lasanod
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1) Those negroid clans are NOT native to Somalia, they're slaves who were imported between the Ajuuran to the Italian period to farm their land. I promise you, we'll deport them back to their native countries of Mozambique and Tanzania if they dare to act up.
2) Secondly, the Madhibaan, Eeyle are Somali. There is no genetic distinction between them and a Darood or Hawiye. I don't care if they were independent from Somalis 1200 years ago. Almost all British kings come from a Viking/Norman ancestry, does that mean that they should be called Scandinavians/French instead? Or what about the Germanic tribes who invaded England?
"Much of the UK's medieval aristocracy was descended from Franco-Norman migrants to England at or after the time of the Norman Conquest. Well known families that originated from the Norman Conquest period, include the Grosvenor family whose original name was "Gros Veneur" meaning (in Norman) "great hunter" or 'grand hunter'."
3) The Persian, Arab and Indonesian coastal folks have been mixing with ethnic Somalis for over 700 years. Genetically, they are MORE SOMALI. You seem set on imposing a foreign background to these groups even though they will be offended and insulted if you called them non-Somali. The example below shows that this Cadcad lady is over 60 % Somali and 25 % Middle Eastern for example:
Secondly, Ibn Battuta has mentioned that ethnic Somalis were the rulers of Mogadishu over 700 years ago. The fact that there was a large foreign influence is due to the cosmopolitan nature of Mogadishu which still exists today. All Muslims from the world came to trade and live there.
As for the Portugese, they were invaders who were trying to sack and conquer Somali lands just like YOUR people. They were soundly defeated by an Ottoman and Somali alliance who re-conquered all of East Africa, and the only people with Portuguese admixture were people who were raped!
2) Secondly, the Madhibaan, Eeyle are Somali. There is no genetic distinction between them and a Darood or Hawiye. I don't care if they were independent from Somalis 1200 years ago. Almost all British kings come from a Viking/Norman ancestry, does that mean that they should be called Scandinavians/French instead? Or what about the Germanic tribes who invaded England?
"Much of the UK's medieval aristocracy was descended from Franco-Norman migrants to England at or after the time of the Norman Conquest. Well known families that originated from the Norman Conquest period, include the Grosvenor family whose original name was "Gros Veneur" meaning (in Norman) "great hunter" or 'grand hunter'."
3) The Persian, Arab and Indonesian coastal folks have been mixing with ethnic Somalis for over 700 years. Genetically, they are MORE SOMALI. You seem set on imposing a foreign background to these groups even though they will be offended and insulted if you called them non-Somali. The example below shows that this Cadcad lady is over 60 % Somali and 25 % Middle Eastern for example:
Secondly, Ibn Battuta has mentioned that ethnic Somalis were the rulers of Mogadishu over 700 years ago. The fact that there was a large foreign influence is due to the cosmopolitan nature of Mogadishu which still exists today. All Muslims from the world came to trade and live there.
As for the Portugese, they were invaders who were trying to sack and conquer Somali lands just like YOUR people. They were soundly defeated by an Ottoman and Somali alliance who re-conquered all of East Africa, and the only people with Portuguese admixture were people who were raped!
That's the old south Arabian script, it's Himyarite because the Himyar kingdom ruled Mogaidshu and Kismayo area
Prince of Lasanod
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Constantinople/Istanbul was only conquered by the Turks/Ottomans 567 years ago. Whereas it was rule by the Romans for over 1450 years and also founded by them.
We've ruled/owned Xamar longer than Turks have ruled/owned Istanbul, not only that but we made it the greatest city of East Africa. Somalis have been connected with Xamar for at least 1000 years. Moreover, we're the natives of Horn of Africa/Somalia whereas the Himyar Kingdom(over 2000 years ago) were from Arabia.
Try again.
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Grant's comment is very generalised and does not apply to all Somalis.
Saylac is one of the most ancient cities and its history is well known and the clan who are the predominant clan in that city and region know their history very well even if it hasn't all been written down.
“Zeila is an ancient city, and has been identified with what was referred to in classical antiquity as the town of Avalites (Αβαλίτες in Greek), situated in the erstwhile Barbara geographical region on the northern Somali coast. Along with the neighboring Habash (Habesha or Abyssinians) of Al-Habash to the west, the Barbaroi or Berber (ancestral Somalis) who inhabited the area are recorded in the 1st century CE Greek document the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea as engaging in extensive commercial exchanges with Egypt and pre-Islamic Arabia.”
Saylac is one of the most ancient cities and its history is well known and the clan who are the predominant clan in that city and region know their history very well even if it hasn't all been written down.
“Zeila is an ancient city, and has been identified with what was referred to in classical antiquity as the town of Avalites (Αβαλίτες in Greek), situated in the erstwhile Barbara geographical region on the northern Somali coast. Along with the neighboring Habash (Habesha or Abyssinians) of Al-Habash to the west, the Barbaroi or Berber (ancestral Somalis) who inhabited the area are recorded in the 1st century CE Greek document the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea as engaging in extensive commercial exchanges with Egypt and pre-Islamic Arabia.”
Prince of Lasanod
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This guy is acting as if the Somali Republic annexed Xamar at independence when we've been mentioned in history as being the rulers of the city over 700 years ago!!
Why doesn't he talk about the fact that KENYA is an artificial nation that was created by the colonials? That Kenya ANNEXED Mombasa in 1960 even though it was separate even during the colonial period? They were a landlocked who only got a coast 57 years ago! Or how about Ethiopia being given hundreds of thousands of weapons by the Europeans whilst we were denied to defend our family, our land and our people? Or how about that the Somalis in NFD voted democratically to join Somalia, but were denied their freedom??
Nope, let's just talk about how 2000 years ago that some Arab kingdom ruled Xamar. Let's try and divide Somalia further to exploit her resources.
Why doesn't he talk about the fact that KENYA is an artificial nation that was created by the colonials? That Kenya ANNEXED Mombasa in 1960 even though it was separate even during the colonial period? They were a landlocked who only got a coast 57 years ago! Or how about Ethiopia being given hundreds of thousands of weapons by the Europeans whilst we were denied to defend our family, our land and our people? Or how about that the Somalis in NFD voted democratically to join Somalia, but were denied their freedom??
Nope, let's just talk about how 2000 years ago that some Arab kingdom ruled Xamar. Let's try and divide Somalia further to exploit her resources.
1. False
2. False
3. I would never call them non-Somali. I call them non-Samaale, or, in this lady's case, mixed.
Ibn Batuta said the rulers were Berber. No tribe is mentioned. This was 14th century. Interestingly, the Qadi he visited the Sultan (Shaikh) with was Egyptian.
Now, here is 16th century:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Mogadishu
"Sultans of Mogadishu
According to the 16th century explorer Leo Africanus, the Mogadishu Sultanate (Magadazo) was the principal city-state within the larger Adea Kingdom, located south of the Adal Sultanate and east of the Abyssinian Empire. It was ruled by an Islamic aristocracy, which paid tribute to the Christian Abyssinian king. The native inhabitants were of an olive complexion, with some darker. They were shirtless, wearing only sarongs, and used Arabic as a lingua franca. Their weaponry consisted of lances and bows and arrows. Most were Muslims, although a few adhered to heathen bedouin tradition; there were also a number of Abyssinian Christians further inland. Magadazo itself was a wealthy, powerful and well-built city-state, which maintained commercial trade with the sultanates of Aden and Cambay, among other kingdoms. It was surrounded by walled stone fortifications: initially, only towards the hinterland, but later also on the littoral, so as to provide a bulwark against marauding by the Cafri (Negroid pagans of the interior) and the early Portuguese explorers, respectively.[28]
The various Sultans of Mogadishu are mainly known from the Mogadishan currency on which many of their names are engraved. However, their succession dates and genealogical relations are obscure.[29] While only a handful of the pieces have been precisely dated, the Sultanate's first coins were minted at the beginning of the 14th century, with the last issued around the late 17th century. The following list of the Sultans of Mogadishu is abridged and is primarily derived from these mints.[30] The first of two dates uses the Islamic calendar, with the second using the Julian calendar; single dates are based on the Julian (European) calendar.
# Sultan Reign Notes
1 Abu Bakr b. Fakhr ad Din fl 1250 Founder of the Mogadishu Sultanate's first ruling house, the Fakr ad-Din dynasty.
2 Abu Bakr b. Muhammad fl 722/1322-1323 Ruling Sultan when Ibn Battuta visited the kingdom in 1331.
3 Al-Rahman b. al-Musa'id probably 8th/14th century
4 Yusuf b. Sa'id fl 8th/14th century
5 Sultan Muhammad fl 8th/14th century "
Please note the negroid pagans of the interior and Samaale control of the city beginning about 1250 AD. The history of Mogadishu and the Horn is much older. I have posted the documentation previously, but will do so again if you will read.
if they are genetically distinct shouldnt there be physical differences? why do they look like normal somalis ? also you can't disagree and not have proof that they're different genetically
Prince of Lasanod
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1) The Bantu expansion did not reach Somalia. Period. I'm sorry to tell you, but these commodities(oops I mean slaves) were imported by the SOMALI STATE to work on OUR farms. Over 50,000 slaves were being sold in Somali ports every year as well. Some of those slaves escaped inside Somalia. We will recapture them and sell them back to Tanzania and Mozambique soon.
2) You haven't refuted what I've said. There is no genetic distinction between the Madhibaan and Darood. Both have the E1B1b haplogroup, and both are 100 % Somali genetically. They may have been a pre-Somali Cushitic group 1500 years ago(which I doubt), but today they're Somalis. The UK aristocracy are descended from Norman lineage (meaning they are not even native to the British isles) whereas the Somalis and these so called "Pre-Cushitic clans" (who are now Somali) are both native to the Horn of Africa. If so, then we were simply the superior civilization and conquered them. I would have no problems if they conquered us. But you cannot hold on to the fact that they came from different backgrounds 1000 years ago to say that they aren't Somali, because the separate Somali identity was only formed recently (less than 1000 years ago) when we became Muslim. Perhaps they decided to not become Muslim? There are Somali clans who were Oromo 100 years ago, and I don't understand why you're obsessed with clans who could have been non-Somali 1000 years ago. The reason why you want to deem them as a separate ethnic group is so that you can divide Somalia further and exploit our resources. I don't even believe that they were non Somali 1500 years ago, but probably proto-Somali. Why don't you ASK them yourself? Why do you want to FORCE an identity upon people just like how you FORCED colonization on us?
Somalis were known as Berbers during that time. He was described as speaking both Arabic and Somali.
Due to cosmopolitan nature of Islamic states, there was no such thing as ethnic nationalism during those days. In fact, the modern day Egyptian state was founded by an Albanian.
"After the French were expelled, power was seized in 1805 by Muhammad Ali Pasha, an Albanian military commander of the Ottoman army in Egypt. While he carried the title of viceroy of Egypt, his subordination to the Ottoman porte was merely nominal. Muhammad Ali massacred the Mamluks and established a dynasty that was to rule Egypt until the revolution of 1952."
Just because a minister may have been Arab, does not change the fact that Xamar was ruled by a Somali. Or the fact that all Muslims were part of Adal, does not change the fact that Adal was composed of mainly Somalis and so on. The Mayor of London today is a Pakistani. I guess London is part of some sort of Pakistani civilization right?
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