Another study shows Nubians are more genetically related to Cushitic speakers than Nilo Saharans

[Prince Abubu]

I'm not gonna spend time linking sources/books you could easily find yourself either online or at the library. Regardless of the most spoken language in Sudan, almost every Nubian speaks the native language and most Nubians can't even speak Arabic until starting primary school so again, your rape theory is invalid. Stop glorifying Arab settlers, they were impoverished and desperate immigrants.

Arab immigrants failed to Islamize/Arabize Sudan, it was the Mahdists that made Sudan a Muslim majority country! Hence why I referenced the late 1800s conversion to Islam from Christianity, please read slowly and process my information before replying with irrelevant statistics you've already posted 50 times.

Are you saying before the Mahdists, most Sudanese weren't even Muslim?

Also Nubians and Arab Sudanese have large amounts of Arab Y DNA and native MtDNA because the Arabs were invaders not migrants. Migrants bring their wives and children along with them. It's why for, instance, Somalis have a mixed bag of MtDNA. The Eurasian/non-african ancestors brought women with them into Africa too.

But I would not say Sudanese Arabs and Nubians are the result of rape, that is not a nice thing to say. You can't rape such huge amounts of people anyway, that would be impossible. Even Genghis Khan can't recreate most of the Sudanese population.

 

[Beja]

Are you saying before the Mahdists, most Sudanese weren't even Muslim?

Also Nubians and Arab Sudanese have large amounts of Arab Y DNA and native MtDNA because the Arabs were invaders not migrants. Migrants bring their wives and children along with them. It's why for, instance, Somalis have a mixed bag of MtDNA. The Eurasian/non-african ancestors brought women with them into Africa too.

But I would not say Sudanese Arabs and Nubians are the result of rape, that is not a nice thing to say. You can't rape such huge amounts of people anyway, that would be impossible. Even Genghis Khan can't recreate most of the Sudanese population.

Majority of Nubians were Christian until Mahdists, Bejas and Sudanese Arabs on the other hand were Muslims centuries before.

Arabs tried invading Sudan for thousands of years and failed every single time so they later came in as impoverished and desperate immigrants... They had to intermarry with locals which is why many of them converted to Christianity in Dongola and surrounding areas. The rape accusation wasn't a "mean thing to say", it's straight up pseudoscience.

 

[GeKo]

You do realize that Arab men had to convert to Christianity and only speak the local language to marry Nubian women? Although Islam was present in that region for centuries Nubia was majority Christian until the late 1800s.

Didn't the Nubian kingdom after fighting many wars with them signed an unfavorable agreement with the arabs , where they supply them with a large number of slaves a year as well as allowing full access into the kingdom, among other things. The arab's intermarried with the locals, it was not by rape as some of these users are saying.

 

[Beja]

Didn't the Nubian kingdom after fighting many wars with them signed an unfavorable agreement with the arabs , where they supply them with a large number of slaves a year as well as allowing full access into the kingdom, among other things. The arab's intermarried with the locals, it was not by rape as some are saying.

I've heard of this before however i'm not sure if it's confirmed. It makes sense though since Nubians kidnapped many people from the Nuba mountains and enslaved them to sell them to Arabs.

 

[Prince Abubu]

Majority of Nubians were Christian until Mahdists, Bejas and Sudanese Arabs on the other hand were Muslims centuries before.

Arabs tried invading Sudan for thousands of years and failed every single time so they later came in as impoverished and desperate immigrants... They had to intermarry with locals which is why many of them converted to Christianity in Dongola and surrounding areas. The rape accusation wasn't a "mean thing to say", it's straight up pseudoscience.

I can't speak for rape, but the januubis were mistreated and enslaved for centuries so it wouldn't be surprising if many were raped. Rape, btw doesn't just mean a one off forced thing. Kidnapping wives, concubines and house slaves would also count as rape since it is usually against the female's wishes. Plus similar things happened in the Swahili coast as well, in places like Zanjibar, Comoros and Lamu. This is just the modus operandi of conquering armies, it happened in Egypt and North Africa as well.

The study also shows that Nubians are different from Arab Sudanese. Nubians are nilotics that mixed with Copts while Arab Sudanese are nilotics with Arab ancestry.

 

[Beja]

I can't speak for rape, but the januubis were mistreated and enslaved for centuries so it wouldn't be surprising if many were raped. Rape, btw doesn't just mean a one off forced thing. Kidnapping wives, concubines and house slaves would also count as rape since it is usually against the female's wishes. Plus similar things happened in the Swahili coast as well, in places like Zanjibar, Comoros and Lamu. This is just the modus operandi of conquering armies, it happened in Egypt and North Africa as well.

The study also shows that Nubians are different from Arab Sudanese. Nubians are nilotics that mixed with Copts while Arab Sudanese are nilotics with Arab ancestry.

Sennar (ancient Khartoum and surrounding towns) was a very classit society so the rape offspring of slaves were still considered Junubi and ended up marrying other Junubis. That's probably why the South Sudanese youtuber Nikki Perkins has some significant Arab admixture.

Yeah, Nubians were more willing to mix with Copts cause they were Christian, while Arab Sudanis were willing to mix with Arabs cause they were Muslim.

 

[GeKo]

I've heard of this before however i'm not sure if it's confirmed. It makes sense though since Nubians kidnapped many people from the Nuba mountains and enslaved them to sell them to Arabs.

It is confirmed. After the Muslim rulers of Egypt couldn't beat the Christian Nubian kingdom, they signed a treaty known as the Baqt.
It's a very controversial one, since the 'Arab muslims were more content with accepting slaves than spreading Islam further south. If this treaty didn't happen perhaps, South Sudan, Uganda and other southern african countries would've been muslim. Since it was the beginning of where Arabs got the appetite for strong African slaves.

" The treaty might not have been written at all and may have just been an oral agreement. Some sections of the baqt are clear:

• the Arabs would not attack Nubia and the Nubians would not attack Egypt
• the citizens of the two nations would be allowed to freely trade and travel between the two states and would be guaranteed safe passage while in the other nation
• immigration to and settlement in the other nation's lands was forbidden
• fugitives were to be extradited, as were escaped slaves
• the Nubians were responsible for maintaining a mosque for Muslim visitors and residents
• the Egyptians had no obligation to protect the Nubians from attacks by third parties

The most important provision was that 360 slaves per year were to be sent to Egypt. These slaves had to be of the highest quality, meaning that the elderly and children were excluded. The slaves sent had to be a mix of male and female. In some reports an extra forty were due which were distributed among notables in Egypt.
Ibn Abd al-Hakam, one of the first historians to discuss the treaty, gives two different versions of the treaty. The first has only Nubia sending slaves north, thus symbolizing its subservience to Egypt. The second version adds an obligation of the Egyptians to also send goods south including wheat and lentils in exchange for the slaves; this would put the two nations on a more equal footing"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baqt
The people the Nubians kidnap from the Nuba mountains were also Nubians or?

 

[Beja]

The people the Nubians kidnap from the Nuba mountains were also Nubians or?

No, people of the Nuba mountains are known as the "Nuba", Wikipedia even put a disclaimer saying that the two groups are completely different because many people get the terms Nuba and Nubian mixed up.

The woman in the middle is a broadcaster from the Nuba mountains

 

[GeKo]

No, people of the Nuba mountains are known as the "Nuba", Wikipedia even put a disclaimer saying that the two groups are completely different because many people get the terms Nuba and Nubian mixed up.

The woman in the middle is a broadcaster from the Nuba mountains

It's like that confusing, tigre, tigrinya, tigray among Habesha's. The woman in the middle is what I thought Nubian's were until I did a google search and was even more confused.
There are some muslim Nuba people in Kenya I met, who look like the woman in the middle.
They were settled in Nairobi a century ago by the British.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/05/04/kenya.nubian.discrimination/index.html

 

[Malaki]

I can't speak for rape, but the januubis were mistreated and enslaved for centuries so it wouldn't be surprising if many were raped. Rape, btw doesn't just mean a one off forced thing. Kidnapping wives, concubines and house slaves would also count as rape since it is usually against the female's wishes. Plus similar things happened in the Swahili coast as well, in places like Zanjibar, Comoros and Lamu. This is just the modus operandi of conquering armies, it happened in Egypt and North Africa as well.

The study also shows that Nubians are different from Arab Sudanese. Nubians are nilotics that mixed with Copts while Arab Sudanese are nilotics with Arab ancestry.

This study has disproved that Nubians are Nilotes with Arab admixture or vice versa. Why are you peddling the same debunked myths?

Plus if rape includes kidnapping wives, concubines and house slaves then how many of us Somalis would be rape products? Somali culture back in the day a man would give his daughter without her consent and the entire world was like that. By broadening that, we are all implicated.

 

[Malaki]

It's like that confusing, tigre, tigrinya, tigray among Habesha's. The woman in the middle is what I thought Nubian's were until I did a google search and was even more confused.
There are some muslim Nuba people in Kenya I met, who look like the woman in the middle.
They were settled in Nairobi a century ago by the British.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/05/04/kenya.nubian.discrimination/index.html

The Nuba in Kenya shouldn't be confused with Nubians. Lol

 

[Malaki]

Stop peddling lies.

Nubians are Cushitic peoples who have Nilotic/Arab recent admixture. The original Nubians were absolute Cushites just like Horners.

The genetic evidences prove this.

Until this study is PROVEN wrong, nobody should ever utter such blasphemous words about our Nubian brothers and sisters.

Their language is Nilo Saharan, but genetically they have no relations with other Nilo Saharan speakers.

 

[anonimo]

Don’t lie. You’re Gurgura, I remember you very clearly.

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You guys ARE NOT SOMALI! You speak Oromo and are part of the Afran Qallo Oromo confederation. The reason why Dire Dawa isn’t in the Somali region is because you guys don’t identify as one! Now move you dirty Galla.

The Gurgura that you are accusing of being Oromo are the ones that stopped Dire Dawa from being added to the Oromo Zone. They are not part of the Afran Qallo, they have marital ties with them but maintain a separate clan identity despite their bilingualism. The Oromos never had the ability to assimilate them into their clan structure. Why do you think they beg the Gurgura to identify as Oromo?

The issue of fitting into the new ethno-federal structure became controversial to the Gurgura because they share both Somali and Oromo identities. They by-and-large speak Affan Oromo (Oromo language), while they trace their genealogy to Somali (Dir Somali clan family). In the ethnic frontiers of the Oromo and the Somali where there have been cultural and linguistic interactions at least since the sixteenth century (Caulk, 1977), there are several clans like the Gurgura with shared Somali and Oromo identities. In the context of Dire Dawa, the ethnic identity of the Gurgura became contentious as their decision to join one of the larger ethnicities could have implications on the quest of the two regions to have control over Dire Dawa. Both the Oromo and the Somali protagonists use their own narratives to bring the Gurgura to their side. But on the ground, to the dislike of the Oromo, many prominent Gurgura, including traditional leaders, have identified themselves as Somali.

Regional & Federal Studies

Volume 24, Issue 5, 2014
Special Issue: Federalism and Decentralization in Sub-Saharan Africa
Ethnic Decentralization and the Challenges of Inclusive Governance in Multiethnic Cities: The Case of Dire Dawa, Ethiopia

You do not decide who is and isn't Somali. The Gurgura are Dir by Blood irrespective of whether they speak Affan Oromo or Af-Somali!