Ancient Egypt, Nubia debate

[Cauli]

How do you explain the 15% jump in SSA ancestry in Egypt? A big portion of it being West-Central African rather than East Africanproper in Egypt..

There was a slave trade in Egypt.

Arabs (including Arabized Egyptians) also weren't exclusionary like Somalis and completely absorbed their former slave populations.

15% jump in SSA ancestry is very clear from the fact that the majority of those mummies were Ptolemaic Greek who probably mixed with people already in Lower Egypt, either that or they were purely Mediterranean or recent ME ancestry.

Same as Cheddar Man, why didn't you accept that as standard? Last time you fought tooth and nail to deny that he could have been dark skinned even though almost every scientist (vast majority) except white supremacists accepted it as almost fact.

Your beef is with anything African and anything black.

 

[Cauli]

Keep it civil guys.

@Cauli, if there was strong evidence of Ancient Egypt being like Horners.. I would be on your side, but sadly this is simply not the case.

I could say the same about the Copts. Which you held onto for so long. Even though there literally is no DNA evidence.

The Egyptians clearly depicted themselves as very dark brown. That's how they looked and still look today when you go to southern Egypt.

 

[Apollo]

Same as Cheddar Man, why didn't you accept that as standard? Last time you fought tooth and nail to deny that he could have been dark skinned even though almost every scientist (vast majority) except white supremacists accepted it as almost fact.

Your beef is with anything African and anything black.

If the Ancient Egyptians were highly African, they would have similar ancestry to Somalis and I would be the first to boast about it. However, I do not see any evidence for it.

My refutation of the Cheddar Man stuff was based on an article I read that they don't know most phenotype alleles. Plus I carry that so-called light variant allele they claim makes you pale like a European, yet I am not and subsequently was skeptical from the start because of that.

 

[Cauli]

Those samples showed no admixture from Greeks or Romans

Genetics & phenotype are separate topics.

Before the Ptolemaic dynasty which was essentially Macedonian, Lower Egypt was settled and ruled by Asiatics (Hyksos), invaded and ruled by the Persians, invaded by Libyans, Assyrians and others.

Choose your pick.

 

[Cauli]

If the Ancient Egyptians were highly African, they would have similar ancestry to Somalis and I would be the first to boast about it. However, I do not see any evidence for it.

My refutation of the Cheddar Man stuff was based on an article I read that they don't know most phenotype alleles. Plus I carry that so-called light variant allele they claim makes you pale like a European, yet I am not and subsequently was skeptical from the start because of that..

You don't see any evidence for it because you are relying on a DNA test, that those who carried it out don't even consider it representative.
It was such a late period in Egyptian history that it's pathetic and practically fraudulent.

 

[Apollo]

15% jump in SSA ancestry is very clear from the fact that the majority of those mummies were Ptolemaic Greek

Impossible.

That 15% SSA jump does not come from Bejas nor Nubians but from areas like Nigeria, Niger, South Chad, South Sudan from the slave trade.

 

[Cauli]

Impossible.

That 15% SSA jump does not come from Bejas nor Nubians but from areas like Nigeria and South Chad, South Sudan from the slave trade.

What difference does it make?

And there was a slave trade? And

 

[Apollo]

What difference does it make?

And there was a slave trade? And

That means that the AEs were less SSA than the current population and that is a big deal, especially to those claiming the AEs were like Somalis. It is a massively relevant fact.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

Before the Ptolemaic dynasty which was essentially Macedonian, Lower Egypt was settled and ruled by Asiatics (Hyksos), invaded and ruled by the Persians, invaded by Libyans, Assyrians and others.

Choose your pick.

Again you're lying.

Foreign rulers may have ruled Egypt, but there is zero evidence of a population replacement or mass mixing.

Similarly, India has been subjected to foreign rulers for centuries, but there has been no population replacement or mass mixing that has significantly diluted the various Indian ethnic group's native ancestries.

 

[Cauli]

That means that the AEs were less SSA than the current population and that is a big deal, especially to those claiming the AEs were like Somalis. It is a massively relevant fact.

Why are we going round in circles? How could they be less SSA when you're relying on a sample from Lower Egypt that sampled a few mummified bodies from a period that Egypt being ruled by the likes of Cleopatra?

Would that whole 'there was less SSA in Ancient Egyptians' argument be the same and there been a sample from the Old Kingdom dynasties?

This is getting silly

Your still clinging on to a test that is not representative, I swear this is like the 100th time that Im saying it. Man I'm done.

 

[Cauli]

Again you're lying.

Foreign rulers may have ruled Egypt, but there is zero evidence of a population replacement or mass mixing.

Similarly, India has been subjected to foreign rulers for centuries, but there has been no population replacement or mass mixing that has significantly diluted the various Indian ethnic group's native ancestries.

Difference is:
Lower Egypt has always been a melting pot of different ethnicities. Slave caravans were also being bought in all the time from places like the Levant and others. Not just SSA like Apollo would want us believe.

The Ancient Egyptian culture comes from the South. So unless we can get samples from old or pre-dynastic Egyptians. I'm sorry your white washed lies can go in the toilet.

 

[Apollo]

Why are we going round in circles? How could they be less SSA when you're relying on a sample from Lower Egypt that sampled a few mummified bodies from a period that Egypt being ruled by the likes of Cleopatra?

Would that whole 'there was less SSA in Ancient Egyptians' argument be the same and there been a sample from the Old Kingdom dynasties?

This is getting silly

Your still clinging on to a test that is not representative, I swear this is like the 100th time that Im saying it. Man I'm done.

We are back at the beginning again, as I said before: I go by published results.

Your best hope is Iberomaurusian-like folk appearing in Egypt, but then again that can possibly only have existed before the civilization.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

Difference is:
Lower Egypt has always been a melting pot of different ethnicities. Slave caravans were also being bought in all the time from places like the Levant and others. Not just SSA like Apollo would want us believe.

The Ancient Egyptian culture comes from the South. So unless we can get samples from old or pre-dynastic Egyptians. I'm sorry your white washed lies can go in the toilet.

Upper Egypt united with Lower Egypt under an Upper Egyptian King/Pharaoh. Furthermore, there's no evidence to suggest that Lower Egypt was demographically replaced by foreigners. Lower Egypt has always been inhabited by native Egyptians that form the super majority.

The point im trying to drive home to you is that the Upper Egyptians & Ancient Egyptians in general lacked SSA admixture that Nubians & Somalis have. Therefore, ruling out the false claim that Ancient Egyptians looked like the average Somali etc.

 

[madaxweyne]

whats wrong with kerma and kush

now this is what i call a civilization

 

[Apollo]

whats wrong with kerma and kush

now this is what i call a civilization

Somali's ancestors where living in Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Somalia during the construction of that civilization.

Admire it, but don't claim descent from it.

 

[madaxweyne]

Somali's ancestors where living in Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Somalia during the construction of that civilization.

Admire it, but don't claim descent from it.

i know that apollo


the british claim greeks

so i can claim and acknowledge the suceess of the cushites in both sudan and ethiopia even
somalia

 

[World]

Why is @SOMALI GENERAL taking this so personally and insulting others for holding a different view point?

Calm down dude.

 

[EDsomali]

Nubians = Mix

They weren't pure Nioltes

 

[madaxweyne]

Nubians = Mix

They weren't pure Nioltes

nubians are just cushites who cultrally appropriated nilotic culture their related to bejas who are the real decendents of kush and cushitic kerma

 

[TooMacaan]

I have a feeling this will be one of those never ending 'debates'... no matter what evidence comes out, ppl will stay believing what they wanna believe.