Ancient Egypt, Nubia debate

[SOMALI GENERAL]

/Thread split

Other Africans are mostly of Bantu descent and they like to deny that we are native to Africa.
They claim our civilisations at times (KUSH/ANCIENT EGYPT) and in countries like South-Africa, have rewarded our Pan-Africanism with VIOLENCE.

Furthermore, when they are not insulting our features, they are brainwashing our girls into marrying/procreating with them. They do not like the fact that we like to stick to our own people and in the West they attacked us physically and verbally (especially West Indians).

Somalis need to stick together and our other allies can be other Cushites.

You could argue Kush was built by Cushites, but you can't claim Ancient Egypt.

Ancient Egypt only belongs to Modern Egyptians of which Copts are the purest Egyptians. This is backed up by tons of genetics studies.

 

[Cauli]

You could argue Kush was built by Cushites, but you can't claim Ancient Egypt.

Ancient Egypt only belongs to Modern Egyptians of which Copts are the purest Egyptians. This is backed up by tons of genetics studies.

Which Ancient Egypt? The 1st to at least the 13th dynasties originated and were based in Upper Egypt. The 1st dynasty were almost identical to Kermans in race according to almost everyone. So NO. You're wrong.

New Kingdom to Ptolemaic dynasty mummified bodies in Lower Egypt does not = Ancient Egypt. Those DNA tests are selective bullshit.

Pre-dynastic Egyptians were the same people as the Kermans who were Cushites so you tell me when did the Ancient Egyptians become Copts? Post 20th dynasty?

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

Which Ancient Egypt? The 1st to at least the 13th dynasties originated and were based in Upper Egypt. The 1st dynasty were almost identical to Kermans in race according to almost everyone. So NO. YourYo wrong.

New Kingdom to Ptolemaic dynasty mummified bodies in Lower Egypt does not = Ancient Egypt. Those DNA tests are selective bullshit.

Stop spreading lies. Kermans & those who went on to build Kush have significant SSA admixture(up to 50%) just like Somalis, modern Nubians/Beja and so on.

Ancient Egyptians (Upper & Lower Egyptians) have virtually no SSA blood/admixture and they're racial ancestry is predominantly Egyptian/North African...

Read this: https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2017/05/30/ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/

Stop stealing other people's history/heritage & spreading bullshit, it reeks of insecurity.

 

[madaxweyne]

Which Ancient Egypt? The 1st to at least the 13th dynasties originated and were based in Upper Egypt. The 1st dynasty were almost identical to Kermans in race according to almost everyone. So NO. You're wrong.

New Kingdom to Ptolemaic dynasty mummified bodies in Lower Egypt does not = Ancient Egypt. Those DNA tests are selective bullshit.

Pre-dynastic Egyptians were the same people as the Kermans who were Cushites so you tell me when did the Ancient Egyptians become Copts? Post 20th dynasty?

i dont think egyptians or aka copts and cushites are the same racially but are related both genetically cultrally and linguistically

hense the divide in opinions buut if you are talking about egypt and cush its practically no diffrent then Babylonia and Assyria known as Mesopotamian civilizations. cush and egypt are collectively known as nile valley civilizations

cushites have a claim to Egypt even some Egyptian kingdoms where cushties and vice versa aswell so to keep it close yes cushites where ancient Egyptians aswell and also ancient egyptians where cushites as well

 

[madaxweyne]

Stop spreading lies. Kermans & those who went on to build Kush have significant SSA admixture(up to 50%) just like Somalis, modern Nubians/Beja and so on.

Ancient Egyptians (Upper & Lower Egyptians) have virtually no SSA blood/admixture and they're racial ancestry is predominantly Egyptian/North African...
View attachment 70716

Read this: https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2017/05/30/ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/

Stop stealing other people's history/heritage & spreading bullshit, it reeks of insecurity.

dont you think its fair to say egypt is part of our history as well i mean we did rule it for over two centuries and vice versa as cush was a province of egypt
and also part of the history of the cushitic peoples and their contacts with their closely related neighbors to the north

:siilaanyolaugh:also both egypt and kush and kherma are all collectively known as nile valley civilizations just like the Babylonian assyrian are known as masepotamian civilization

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

dont you think its fair to say egypt is part of our history as well i eman we did rule it for over two centuries and vice versa as cush was a province of egypt
and also part of the history of the cushitic peoples and their contacts with their closely related neighbors to the north

:siilaanyolaugh:also both egypt and kush and kherma are all collectively known as nile valley civilizations just like the Babylonian assyrian are known as masepotamian civilization

No.

Ancient Egypt civilisation strictly belongs to the Native Egyptians only. If we go by your logic, then dumbfucks would be arguing that Egypt belongs to the Romans, Arabs or Greek occupiers.

 

[Cauli]

Stop spreading lies. Kermans & those who went on to build Kush have significant SSA admixture(up to 50%) just like Somalis, modern Nubians/Beja and so on.

Ancient Egyptians (Upper & Lower Egyptians) have virtually no SSA blood/admixture and they're racial ancestry is predominantly Egyptian/North African...
View attachment 70716

Read this: https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2017/05/30/ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/

Stop stealing other people's history/heritage & spreading bullshit, it reeks of insecurity.

Why do you constantly post results of the Ancient Egyptians post New Kingdom/Ptolemaic period as if they are a representative sample? That sample of Ancient Egyptian is not representative. Do you understand?

Pre-dynastic Egyptians were identical to their southern neighbors:

DNA is a major factor to determine racial classification but it comes second to physical evidence such as crania.

Studies have shown that the closest human population to the both pre dynastic Egyptian and dynastic Egyptians were closely related and resembled people from the Horn of Africa.

There was recent and extensive study done by C. Loring Brace, Seguchi and Qifeng in which they state clearly:

"Here we offer a comparable treatment of samples of recent and prehistoric human populations running from the Middle East to the western edge of the Eurasian continent, north to Crimea, east to Mongolia, and southward through Nubia and Somalia plus samples from North Africa and representatives of the Niger-Congo-speaking peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa (Table 1). Teeth and the tooth-bearing parts of facial skeletons of course do reflect differences in response to the forces of selection on different populations (23), but they were left out of our analysis."


Table 1:

"
As shown in Fig. 1, the Somalis and the Egyptian Bronze Age sample from Naqada may also have a hint of a Sub-Saharan African component. That was not borne out in the canonical variate plot (Fig. 2), and there was no evidence of such an involvement in the Algerian Neolithic (Gambetta) sample."

Point continued in which Bronze age Egyptian, Nubian, Somali and ancient Israeli farmers were given their own unique category:

"Next the Portuguese Mesolithic, Greek Neolithic, Italy Eneolithic, and Swiss Neolithic samples and the Italian and Greek Bronze Age samples were combined to make a “Prehistoric Mediterranean” twig. Then Naqada Bronze Age Egyptian, the Nubian, Nubia Bronze Age, Israeli Fellaheen (Arabic farmers), and Somali samples were lumped as “Prehistoric/Recent Northeast Africa..."

Congo Niger speaking populations do NOT cluster with Egyptian/Somali/Israeli farmers as mentioned here, but cluster a bit more closer to the Nilo Saharan Nubian population:

"The Niger-Congo speakers (Congo, Dahomey, and Haya) cluster closely with each other and a bit less closely with the Nubian sample (both the recent and the Bronze Age Nubians) and more remotely with the Naqada Bronze Age sample of Egypt, the modern Somalis, and the Arabic-speaking Fellaheen (farmers) of Israel."

Anyone who wants to read the report can find it here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1325007/#!po=17.5926

 

[madaxweyne]

No.

Ancient Egypt civilisation strictly belongs to the Native Egyptians only. If we go by your logic, then dumbfucks would be arguing that Egypt belongs to the Romans, Arabs or Greek occupiers.

they dont have linguistic, cultral links with egypt we do
as far as race goes its a social construct cushites are clearly related to their berber and egyptian reletives but as part of the same race no
we are part of our own race now the cushite race

we have cultural ,linguistic, genetic links to Egypt also cush itself was once a province race never played a role in Egypt

i did not say am egyptian i am a cushite

 

[Apollo]

@Cauli

Skull studies are not reliable. They show Somalis to be more ''Caucasoid'' than modern-day Nubians, but genomically this is not the case (about the same level).

 

[Cauli]

@Cauli

Skull studies are not reliable. They show Somalis to be more Caucasoid than modern-day Nubians, but genomically this is not the case (about the same level).

@Apollo

Much more reliable than using Ptolemaic dynasty DNA results and classifying them as = Ancient Egyptian. That's fraudulent shit right there.

 

[Apollo]

Much more reliable than using Ptolemaic dynasty DNA results and classifying them as = Ancient Egyptian. That's fraudulent shit right there

Somalis may have selected for pseudo-''Caucasoid'' features in the past 4,000 years. Perhaps helping them survive better in the arid climate of the Horn. Who knows.. but ancestry-wise, Somalis don't cluster near the sampled Ancient Egyptians. Also, AEs maternal results are very different from Somalis. They have super low levels of maternal lineages L (African), while for Somalis it is 40-60%.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

Why do you constantly post results of the Ancient Egyptians post New Kingdom/Ptolemaic period as if they are a representative sample? That sample of Ancient Egyptian is not representative. Do you understand?

Pre-dynastic Egyptians were identical to their southern neighbors:

DNA is a major factor to determine racial classification but it comes second to physical evidence such as crania.

Studies have shown that the closest human population to the both pre dynastic Egyptian and dynastic Egyptians were closely related and resembled people from the Horn of Africa.

There was recent and extensive study done by C. Loring Brace, Seguchi and Qifeng in which they state clearly:

"Here we offer a comparable treatment of samples of recent and prehistoric human populations running from the Middle East to the western edge of the Eurasian continent, north to Crimea, east to Mongolia, and southward through Nubia and Somalia plus samples from North Africa and representatives of the Niger-Congo-speaking peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa (Table 1). Teeth and the tooth-bearing parts of facial skeletons of course do reflect differences in response to the forces of selection on different populations (23), but they were left out of our analysis."


Table 1:

"
As shown in Fig. 1, the Somalis and the Egyptian Bronze Age sample from Naqada may also have a hint of a Sub-Saharan African component. That was not borne out in the canonical variate plot (Fig. 2), and there was no evidence of such an involvement in the Algerian Neolithic (Gambetta) sample."

Point continued in which Bronze age Egyptian, Nubian, Somali and ancient Israeli farmers were given their own unique category:

"Next the Portuguese Mesolithic, Greek Neolithic, Italy Eneolithic, and Swiss Neolithic samples and the Italian and Greek Bronze Age samples were combined to make a “Prehistoric Mediterranean” twig. Then Naqada Bronze Age Egyptian, the Nubian, Nubia Bronze Age, Israeli Fellaheen (Arabic farmers), and Somali samples were lumped as “Prehistoric/Recent Northeast Africa..."

Congo Niger speaking populations do NOT cluster with Egyptian/Somali/Israeli farmers as mentioned here, but cluster a bit more closer to the Nilo Saharan Nubian population:

"The Niger-Congo speakers (Congo, Dahomey, and Haya) cluster closely with each other and a bit less closely with the Nubian sample (both the recent and the Bronze Age Nubians) and more remotely with the Naqada Bronze Age sample of Egypt, the modern Somalis, and the Arabic-speaking Fellaheen (farmers) of Israel."

Anyone who wants to read the report can find it here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1325007/#!po=17.5926

Why are you posting studies on skull shapes/phenotype? We're strictly discussing Genetics.

Those Ancient Egyptians samples are reliable because there was no population replacement or mass mixing going on in Ptolemaic or Roman Egypt, since those samples have no Roman, Greek or any other foreign admixture. Native Egyptians have always remained the super majority (90%+) in their ethnic homeland.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

they dont have linguistic, cultral links with egypt we do
as far as race goes its a social construct cushites are clearly related to their berber and egyptian reletives but as part of the same race no
we are part of our own race now the cushite race

we have cultural ,linguistic, genetic links to Egypt also cush itself was once a province race never played a role in Egypt

i did not say am egyptian i am a cushite

Ethnic Egyptians:

Modern Somalis/Cushites:

You have nothing to do with Ancient Egyptians & their modern descendants.

Stick to claiming SSA civilisations.

 

[Apollo]

@Cauli this guy probably has a full ''Caucasoid'' skull, but his dark skin probably means he has lots of African autosomal ancestry:

Similar-ish skull but probably way different ancestry:

 

[madaxweyne]

Ethnic Egyptians:
View attachment 70718
View attachment 70719
View attachment 70720

Modern Somalis/Cushites:
View attachment 70721
View attachment 70722
View attachment 70723

You have nothing to do with Ancient Egyptians & their modern descendants.

Stick to claiming SSA civilisations.

sahib i already claim kerma kush etc

anyhow i wish one day somali history class would start of with the cushitic migrations from sudan ethiopia and somalia then egyptian history and with others like greace and masepotamia through egyptian links then kherma,kush and damot aksum souta rabian civs through aksum links then to somali history

now that would be a great future no more we wuz arab history classes

 

[Apollo]

@SOMALI GENERAL

Cushites, Toubous, and the North Sudanese are the only SSAs who may claim some ties to Ancient Egypt.

They have ancient ties with them (linguistic, cultural, lower Nile Valley roots etc).

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

@SOMALI GENERAL

Cushites, Toubous, and the North Sudanese are the only SSAs who may claim some ties to Ancient Egypt.

The main commonality those SSA groups have with North Africa & Ancient Egypt in particular is the Hamitic/North African ancestry they share with Egyptians/North Africans.

Moving forward, those SSA groups, such as Cushites no longer look like their Proto-Cushite/North African ancestors due to extensive mixing with Ancient Nilotes/SSA as they moved southwards.

 

[Apollo]

The main commonality those SSA groups have with North Africa & Ancient Egypt in particular is the Hamitic/North African ancestry they share with Egyptians/North Africans.

Moving forward, those SSA groups, such as Cushites no longer look like their Proto-Cushite/North African ancestors due to extensive mixing with Ancient Nilotes/SSA as they moved southwards.

There is a difference between pre-proto-Cushites (PPC) and actual proto-Cushites (PC). I think the PPCs may have been highly MENA, but the PCs / Cs were similar to Horners today more or less. That Ancient Tanzanian genome was sampled three thousand years after the formation of the Cushitic language family and was similar to Somalis.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

There is a difference between pre-proto-Cushites (PPC) and actual proto-Cushites (PC). I think the PPCs may have been highly MENA, but the PCs / Cs were similar to Horners today more or less. That Ancient Tanzanian genome was sampled just three thousand years after the formation of the Cushitic language family and was similar to Somalis.

Ok we'll go with PPC then(basically Cushites without the SSA admixture).

 

[Apollo]

@SOMALI GENERAL

Pre-proto-Semites (PPSs) did not have J1 (they were high in E-M123) nor Chalcolithic Iranian admixture, but proto-Semites or actual Semites did.

Iberian admixture has changed pre-proto-Berbers from modern-day Berbers with the transition even being recorded (Taforalt samples).

Changes happened to all Afro-Asiatic subgroups.