America is the Somalia of developed nations

Hodan from HR

Be Kind Online.
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If you are Muslim, we can agree abortion is not allowed unless under special circumstances. But can we also accept that in reality, passing a law suddenly that makes abortion illegal is a bad idea? Even the banning of alcohol was done in 3 stages during Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) era.

The social outcomes and what is the best approach when passing such laws was clearly not taken into consideration. This was just another outcome of political struggle and you know what they say, when two bulls fight, the grass suffers..
 

AdoonkaAlle

Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
@Periplus

Why does it have to be one or the other? We know abortions outside of threat to mother's health, rape ect is the only ones allowed. Don't expect any sane woman to support a ban that can infringe upon her rights to one if God forbid she ends up having an ectopic pregnancies or a miscarriage in which an abortion pill needs to be taken so that the fetus leaves the body.

Yes, medical reasons make up a small %, but it happens all the time. Women need to be certain that doctors are not going to be afraid to issue them due to fear of the law which is what is supposedly happening. Married women need to afraid Wallahi if that is the case.

If our lives are worthless Aduunka just say it, a fetus is not the same and will never be that of a woman. Islam is black and white when it comes to this and if you have any doubts that the law will not take that into consideration, how as a Muslim can you support it?
This isn’t just true considering that they’re already allocations & exemptions made for medical necessities in all states

Majority of women objecting to the ban do so under the guise of infringement of their right to abort regardless of the reason behind why they choose to abort. Meaning the reason for abortion is of no concern whether it’s valid or not valid according to the deen etc it doesn’t matter.

What Islam says about the matter is only an after thought & people are just hiding behind Islam to support their opposition to this ban.

Since provisions are made for medical necessities even after abortion ban what probable reason would a muslim have to be against the ban ? If you argue that these provisions made aren’t adequate to meet what diinta allows then this would something that needs to discussed & looked into

Laakin none of you is making that claim all you do is push the narrative that the abortion ban makes no such provisions & that this why you’re against it. This is not true as there’s exemptions already in place so the debate to be had is if they’re adequate or not.

If it’s the latter then what follows from here would be what alternatives should be sought so as to ensure that women who’re in need of abortion should have adequate access

What you can’t do is support abortion as they’re carried out when you know for a fact the vast majority is carried out not for necessities but due to an inconvenience, this brings more harm than good & can never be justified Islamically.

I don’t believe that the ban is going to lead to a more harmful situation now than previously when it was allowed given that exemptions are in place.
 

Periplus

It is what it is
VIP
This isn’t just true considering that they’re already allocations & exemptions made for medical necessities in all states

The leading Republican governor candidates in at least three states want to make it a total ban.

Regardless, what qualifies as a medical exemption in those states is not absolute. You can theoretically have a miscarriage and still get prosecuted in these states if they suspect that it was an illicit abortion.

Furthermore, some pro-life campaigners want to ban it even if the mother’s health is in danger.

Just give it a rest. All this time you claimed that I’m trying to mix my politics with Islam when you’re doing the exact same thing.
 
This isn’t just true considering that they’re already allocations & exemptions made for medical necessities in all states

Majority of women objecting to the ban do so under the guise of infringement of their right to abort regardless of the reason behind why they choose to abort. Meaning the reason for abortion is of no concern whether it’s valid or not valid according to the deen etc it doesn’t matter.

What Islam says about the matter is only an after thought & people are just hiding behind Islam to support their opposition to this ban.

Since provisions are made for medical necessities even after abortion ban what probable reason would a muslim have to be against the ban ? If you argue that these provisions made aren’t adequate to meet what diinta allows then this would something that needs to discussed & looked into

Laakin none of you is making that claim all you do is push the narrative that the abortion ban makes no such provisions & that this why you’re against it. This is not true as there’s exemptions already in place so the debate to be had is if they’re adequate or not.

If it’s the latter then what follows from here would be what alternatives should be sought so as to ensure that women who’re in need of abortion should have adequate access

What you can’t do is support abortion as they’re carried out when you know for a fact the vast majority is carried out not for necessities but due to an inconvenience, this brings more harm than good & can never be justified Islamically.

I don’t believe that the ban is going to lead to a more harmful situation now than previously when it was allowed given that exemptions are in place.
I at first couldn't careless about the ban as I would have thought any sane government would take medical issues and rape into account, but from what i'm reading on twitter, this doesn't seem to be the case. I even saw articles about women being prosecuted for miscarriages.
Like what is going on in that hellhole?!

Its true, we cannot support abortions for no reason, goes against our deen, but
Likewise, you can't support a ban if it is true that rape and women with heath issues won't be given an abortion. Even the most conservative of Muslim women would be worried as miscarriages happen all the time.
 

Periplus

It is what it is
VIP
I at first couldn't careless about the ban as I would have thought any sane government would take medical issues and rape into account, but from what i'm reading on twitter, this doesn't seem to be the case. I even saw articles about women being prosecuted for miscarriages.
Like what is going on in that hellhole?!

Its true, we cannot support abortions for no reason, goes against our deen, but
Likewise, you can't support a ban if it is true that rape and women with heath issues won't be given an abortion. Even the most conservative of Muslim women would be worried as miscarriages happen all the time.

He’s telling you to not support abortion because it’s against Islam but he supports this ban despite it going against Islam.

I’m starting to clock that he’s using Islam to justify his conservative opinions yet regularly accuses me of mixing Islam with leftism.

If he was genuine in his appreciation of the deen, he would’ve stated that Islam does not allow unrestricted abortion but that he’s concerned about the implications this ban would have for halal abortions.

Instead he said he supported the ban, quoted some flimsy stats and quoted some Quran.
 
He’s telling you to not support abortion because it’s against Islam but he supports this ban despite it going against Islam.

I’m starting to clock that he’s using Islam to justify his conservative opinions yet regularly accuses me of mixing Islam with leftism.

If he was genuine in his appreciation of the deen, he would’ve stated that Islam does not allow unrestricted abortion but that he’s concerned about the implications this ban would have for halal abortions.

Instead he said he supported the ban, quoted some flimsy stats and quoted some Quran.
I don't agree with you and I don't agree with@AdoonkaAlle

But I find it hilarious that he is exactly like you (no offense) but on the opposite spectrum and he is being hypocritical about it. So following right-wing Catholic/Christian inspired views of abortions isn't political as well?

I'll leave this for him to see as Mohammed Hijab has summed it up perfectly:



And more importantly:

 

Periplus

It is what it is
VIP
I don't agree with you and I don't agree with@AdoonkaAlle

But I find it hilarious that he is exactly like you (no offense) but on the opposite spectrum and he is being hypocritical about it. So following right-wing Catholic/Christian inspired views of abortions isn't political as well?

I'll leave this for him to see as Mohammed Hijab has summed it up perfectly:



You don’t have to agree with me for any reason.

However, I have never portrayed myself as a holier than thou religious character on this site when expressing my political opinions.

That’s the difference between me and him.
 

AdoonkaAlle

Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
Which one is it?

Only one of your stats can be correct.

While we’re at it, can you please share this statistic that happens to change each time you make a post on this thread?

:hmm:
How is 3% going to take away from the argument that majority of abortions aren’t done for medical necessities ? is it so significant that it changes everything

couple of examples below, the sample size are small but they nonetheless list down the reasons. Notice when the sample size increases the the reason for medical necessities decreases. The stat varies from year to year laakin medical reasoning is never high haven’t seen one that is above 5%.

9C3FD2BA-F6EA-4D8F-9B75-E124D7EEED63.jpeg

8F0328A7-DFDB-4500-A06D-BD9E2031CFAD.jpeg

 

Periplus

It is what it is
VIP
How is 3% going to take away from the argument that majority of abortions aren’t done for medical necessities ? is it so significant that it changes everything

couple of examples below, the sample size are small but they nonetheless list down the reasons. Notice when the sample size increases the the reason for medical necessities decreases. The stat varies from year to year laakin medical reasoning is never high haven’t seen one that is above 5%.

View attachment 228295
View attachment 228296

In your first source, only 1000 women were interviewed.

In your second source, the vast majority (75 PERCENT) didn’t give a reason.

How is this credible information?

:draketf:
 
The leading Republican governor candidates in at least three states want to make it a total ban.

Regardless, what qualifies as a medical exemption in those states is not absolute. You can theoretically have a miscarriage and still get prosecuted in these states if they suspect that it was an illicit abortion.

Furthermore, some pro-life campaigners want to ban it even if the mother’s health is in danger.

Just give it a rest. All this time you claimed that I’m trying to mix my politics with Islam when you’re doing the exact same thing.
You need to give it a rest. You are blatantly lying to once again support your liberalism.
 
He’s telling you to not support abortion because it’s against Islam but he supports this ban despite it going against Islam.

I’m starting to clock that he’s using Islam to justify his conservative opinions yet regularly accuses me of mixing Islam with leftism.

If he was genuine in his appreciation of the deen, he would’ve stated that Islam does not allow unrestricted abortion but that he’s concerned about the implications this ban would have for halal abortions.

Instead he said he supported the ban, quoted some flimsy stats and quoted some Quran.
Again you are lying and panicking all over the place. We support the abortion ban which does not include medically necessary procedures.

It is propaganda that women would be jailed for miscarriages or not allowed medically necessary health care, even if that were true hypothetically then we would support women getting the necessary health care and still the also support the abortion ban.

over 95% of abortions are elective and used as a birth control to facilitate debased lifestyles.
 

Periplus

It is what it is
VIP
Again you are lying and panicking all over the place. We support the abortion ban which does not include medically necessary procedures.

It is propaganda that women would be jailed for miscarriages or not allowed medically necessary health care, even if that were true hypothetically then we would support women getting the necessary health care and still the also support the abortion ban.

over 95% of abortions are elective and used as a birth control to facilitate debased lifestyles.

FD42BADF-5ABB-48A1-8479-E0D074C9D449.jpeg
 

Periplus

It is what it is
VIP
A random quote and? Does this prove Wisconsin does not allow medical necessary procedures ?

How about Alabama v Jones and numerous other cases of women getting prosecuted for miscarriages.

Google is free Abdi Lenin.
 

AdoonkaAlle

Ragna qowl baa xira, dumarna meher baa xira.
I at first couldn't careless about the ban as I would have thought any sane government would take medical issues and rape into account, but from what i'm reading on twitter, this doesn't seem to be the case. I even saw articles about women being prosecuted for miscarriages.
Like what is going on in that hellhole?!

Its true, we cannot support abortions for no reason, goes against our deen, but
Likewise, you can't support a ban if it is true that rape and women with heath issues won't be given an abortion. Even the most conservative of Muslim women would be worried as miscarriages happen all the time.
This is what state

When she arrived at hospital seeking treatment, Poolaw admitted to using illicit drugs while pregnant.
Later, the medical examiner's report, obtained by the BBC, found traces of methamphetamine in her unborn son's liver and brain.
The examiner did not determine a cause of death for the foetus, noting genetic anomaly, placenta abruption or maternal methamphetamine use could have been contributing factors.


From 1973-2020, NAPW has recorded 1,600 such cases, with about 1,200 occurring in the last 15 years alone.
Although some involved women who were arrested for things such as falling down, or giving birth at home, the vast majority involved drugs, and women of colour were overrepresented.

As you can see there’s a correlation between their arrests and drug use. So it’s wasn’t a case of miscarriage there were important reasons that contributed to them being charged most notably drug use. Furthermore these arrests are only exemptions as the vast majority of miscarriages don’t lead to such outcomes.

Weighing up the harms & benefits of abortion in USA it’s more conducive to be against it & is the right decision from an Islamic perspective.

By taking into account the number of abortions that can be justified islamically this doesn’t even amount to 10 % so it makes sense for one to be against it.

I mean what’s worse to be against it knowing that 90% of abortions are haram or for it simply because 10% is halal ?
 

Periplus

It is what it is
VIP
This is what state






As you can see there’s a correlation between their arrests and drug use. So it’s wasn’t a case of miscarriage there were important reasons that contributed to them being charged most notably drug use. Furthermore these arrests are only exemptions as the vast majority of miscarriages don’t lead to such outcomes.

Weighing up the harms & benefits of abortion in USA it’s more conducive to be against it & is the right decision from an Islamic perspective.

By taking into account the number of abortions that can be justified islamically this doesn’t even amount to 10 % so it makes sense for one to be against it.

I mean what’s worse to be against it knowing that 90% of abortions are haram or for it simply because 10% is halal ?

Firstly, just one woman getting prosecuted for having a natural miscarriage, is one too many.

Go tell the mother who had to spend thousands in legal fees after her unborn child died from her falling over that she should suck it up because some women abort for haram reasons.

Second, the vast majority of abortions (ACCORDING TO YOUR SOURCE) is for undisclosed reasons.

Saying 90% of abortions is due to haram is a lie when even your own sources don’t credibly back that up.
 
This is what state






As you can see there’s a correlation between their arrests and drug use. So it’s wasn’t a case of miscarriage there were important reasons that contributed to them being charged most notably drug use. Furthermore these arrests are only exemptions as the vast majority of miscarriages don’t lead to such outcomes.

Weighing up the harms & benefits of abortion in USA it’s more conducive to be against it & is the right decision from an Islamic perspective.

By taking into account the number of abortions that can be justified islamically this doesn’t even amount to 10 % so it makes sense for one to be against it.

I mean what’s worse to be against it knowing that 90% of abortions are haram or for it simply because 10% is halal ?
If you 100% knew that rape victims, women with health issues wouldn't get access, being for it would be wrong tbh. Because it is literally you saying to hell with the 10% and our Sharia doesn't work that way, nor are you being compassionate as this is something that easily effect your wife or any woman in your family. Its deeply hypocritical as your stance would change in the blink of an eye.

I as a woman who have seen family members miscarry and other issuses cannot, especially if trying for a baby. So, if it is a 100% facts that some states would infringe upon this, no way am I supporting this. I'll be fearing miscarring and other issues that are common.

I'm not pro-choice (that is immoral), nor do I have the views of the Pro-life.
 

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