Kush or Axum

SOMALI GENERAL said:

Axum was a Cushite civilisation, but it had Sabean influence from it's inception, hence why they spoke Ge'ez which descended from Sabean.

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That doesn’t have too much to do with Ethiopians. It’s Eritrean history. Yes, they have adopted and have been influenced by some of it same way oromos have been by Abyssinians.

@ Eritreans about Axum not delusional habeshis. I’ve read the closest modern day language to Ge’ez is modern day Tigre language. Which are a Muslim ethnic group in Eritrea.

People need to stop validating these weirdos delusional claims.

embarassing said:

That doesn’t have too much to do with Ethiopians. It’s Eritrean history. Yes, they have adopted and have been influenced by some of it same way oromos have been by Abyssinians.

@ Eritreans about Axum not delusional habeshis. I’ve read the closest modern day language to Ge’ez is modern day Tigre language. Which are a Muslim ethnic group in Eritrea.

People need to stop validating these weirdos delusional claims.

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This is getting silly now.

Axum is equally Ethiopian & Eritrean. I don't understand why you can't accept that. The very capital & heart of the Axumite Empire is in Ethiopia. Btw all Ethio-semitic languages descend from Ge'ez.

SOMALI GENERAL said:

Interesting how the Axumite influence amongst the population in North West Somalia completely vanished, whilst other lands that were under Axumite rule retain some aspects of Axumite influence.

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I wouldn't say it's completely vanished but definitely forgotten. Actually, I think we've done a bad job in caring and maintaining pre-Islamic and post Islamic heritage. For example the Masjid al-Qiblatayn is 3rd or 4th mosque is one of the oldest, after the ones in Eritrea and Ethiopia, yet this is all thta's left of it:



I wonder how such a munument was left to rot like this, wllahi it's not normal. Roman columns and brifges are still standing prefectly today but nobody bothered to look after the mosque and replensih it. Shame. The ones in Eritrea and Ethiopia are still somewhat still used but even those weren't looked after properly.

SOMALI GENERAL said:

There are Christian burial sites in NW Somalia, it's highly likely the population living there were influenced or directly ruled by the Axumites who were the main Christian power in the HOA.

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Even if* that’s true. It would’ve been indigenous Somalis who were Christian. It has nothing to do with Ethiopian habeshis. This was pre-Islam (in the modern sense of the word) and it’s our history, at most Cushitic Horn history. No need to attribute to another backwards Cushitic tribe that is the Ethiopians who have a history of claiming other people’s history and their land.

embarassing said:

Even if* that’s true. It would’ve been indigenous Somalis who were Christian. It has nothing to do with Ethiopian habeshis. This was pre-Islam (in the modern sense of the word) and it’s our history, at most Cushitic Horn history. No need to attribute to another backwards Cushitic tribe that is the Ethiopians who have a history of claiming other people’s history and their land.

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That could possibly be true, however we don't have enough evidence to rule out Axumite influence in the region, since they were the main Christian power in the region at the time.

SOMALI GENERAL said:

This is getting silly now.

Axum is equally Ethiopian & Eritrean. I don't understand why you can't accept that. The very capital & heart of the Axumite Empire is in Ethiopia. Btw all Ethio-semitic languages descend from Ge'ez.

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Lool. Would you say the same about modern Oromos who are heavily mixed with Amharas and speak Amharic, also inhabiting historically Abyssinian land? Does that mean the Abyssinian history is equally Oromo history? Knowing what we do about when the Oromo expansion happened?

If you agree, than I would concede your point.

You have a habit of pandering to delusional habeshi, I really don’t understand why knowing you’re from Galbeed, you should know better.

embarassing said:

There are no influences in NW Somalia. If there were you would see it in Galbeed first and foremost, especially the furthest west border towns, where it doesn’t exist. It doesn’t even exist in Harar where the Abyssinians put the most effort in conquering for symbolic reasons.

Walaal, stop pandering to habeshi BS thanks.

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@embarassing

I'm just genuenly going to repsonf to u now, respectfully.

Axum expanded in SL and Djobuti and the influence is seen and has been revise and studied. There's nothing wrong with it, it probably wasn't even a bloody conquest. I think it's quite interesting actually. The website talked about the blacksmith low caste clans and alluded at a connection to Yibir/Jewish Somalis.

If u don't want to contribute, either spectate or leave.

embarassing said:

Lool. Would you say the same about modern Oromos who are heavily mixed with Amharas and speak Amharic, also inhabiting historically Abyssinian land? Does that mean the Abyssinian history is equally Oromo history? Knowing what we do about when the Oromo expansion happened?

If you agree, than I would concede your point.

You have a habit of pandering to delusional habeshi, I really don’t understand why knowing you’re from Galbeed, you should know better.

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The demonym "Abyssinian" was traditionally only used for Habesha peoples. Although, it expanded to also include Oromos & some others as Abyssinia expanded.

embarassing said:

Even if* that’s true. It would’ve been indigenous Somalis who were Christian. It has nothing to do with Ethiopian habeshis. This was pre-Islam (in the modern sense of the word) and it’s our history, at most Cushitic Horn history. No need to attribute to another backwards Cushitic tribe that is the Ethiopians who have a history of claiming other people’s history and their land.

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@embarassing

Sorry to burst your bubble but Judaism and Christianity were 100% brought to SL/Djobuti by Axumite expansion. Read the website I posted to @SOMALI GENERAL and you'll see it mentions Ge'ez and Axumite burial sites in the region.

Seriosuly, you would have to be blinded by ego not to admit to it. Where else did these Christian Somalis come from?

I'm guessing that there were Christian Somalis in the region who converted from Waaqism and some were migrants from the south of Axum. I read that a small minority of Amxaras lived with the Axumites in the south.

@SOMALI GENERAL what do u think?

SOMALI GENERAL said:

This is getting silly now.

Axum is equally Ethiopian & Eritrean. I don't understand why you can't accept that. The very capital & heart of the Axumite Empire is in Ethiopia. Btw all Ethio-semitic languages descend from Ge'ez.

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Using your logic, If Axum had anything to do with the modern Ethio/Eri than Agaw and Afar history is equally Somali since they are Cushitic Speaking people. Each ethnicity should claim it's own history and Axumites were a different ethnicity to the modern Habesha of today. The only thing they share with them is the Habesha culture, that's it.

SOMALI GENERAL said:

Out of these two civilisations, which one do you consider more influential & so forth? Explain why you made the choice.

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embarassing said:

Lool. Would you say the same about modern Oromos who are heavily mixed with Amharas and speak Amharic, also inhabiting historically Abyssinian land? Does that mean the Abyssinian history is equally Oromo history? Knowing what we do about when the Oromo expansion happened?

If you agree, than I would concede your point.

You have a habit of pandering to delusional habeshi, I really don’t understand why knowing you’re from Galbeed, you should know better.

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@embarassing

You point seems confusing. What does Amxaras and Oromos assimilating each other and taking each other's lands through a long hisotry of feuds have anything to do with Axumite influence/expansion in SL/Djiobuti? What's the similarity?

You're comparing very different things here.

Ayubi said:

Using your logic, If Axum had anything to do with the modern Ethio/Eri than Agaw and Afar history is equally Somali since they are Cushitic Speaking people. Each ethnicity should claim it's own history and Axumites were a different ethnicity to the modern Habesha of today. The only thing they share with them is the Habesha culture, that's it.

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My point is that Axumites are the ancestors of Habesha peoples. Gradually over time, Axumites diverged into different ethnic groups that all speak Ge'ez derived languages.

Since they all descend from the Axumites, they can all equally have a claim to Axum's heritage.

SOMALI GENERAL said:

The demonym "Abyssinian" was traditionally only used for Habesha peoples. Although, it expanded to also include Oromos & some others as Abyssinia expanded.

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Actually, the term 'Abyssinia' referred to the ruling Christian realm in Ethiopia wich included the Amxaras and Tigrayans + a few other Christian ethnic groups. It's a term made up by Europeans though, Ethiopians never called themselves 'Abyssianian' nor 'xabesha'. Even 'xabesha' is a word the Arabs first used to describe the Axumite invaders and changed menaing throughout the course of history.

But in general, both the terms 'xabesha' and 'abyssinia' were used interchangeably to describe the ruling Amxara, Orthodox Christian culture. After the decline of Axumite kingdom the Tigrayans lost control and got replaced with an Amxara dynasty, the Zagwe.

Now, this is a whole different topic but briefly, the Amxaras, who were southern Cushites/Agaws were serfs and low caste people in the Tigrayan society of Axum. After the Zagwe adopted Axumite culture they gave birth to the Amxaras and continued to rule for many years. The Tigrayans did get back some control later on but it was an on and off thing thorughout history. Amxaras/Agaws has always been separate from Tigrayans.

EDIT: Amxara culture in its basis is a culture of expansion and assimilation. The Amxara royal family accpeted and included any Cushitic group that was Orthodox Christian. In fact many Oromo rulers ruled Ethiopia, such as Selassie and Menelik. However, Oromo culture wasn't valued. Once you're Amxara and Christian that's all u are. When Amxaras converted Gallas/Oromos they made them speak Amharic and dress like an Amxara. Everything Amxara.

Waaqo of Punt said:

Actually, the term 'Abyssinia' referred to the ruling Christian realm in Ethiopia wich included the Amxaras and Tigrayans + a few other Christian ethnic groups. It's a term made up by Europeans though, Ethiopians never called themselves 'Abyssianian' nor 'xabesha'. Even 'xabesha' is a word the Arabs first used to describe the Axumite invaders and changed menaing throughout the course of history.

But in general, both the terms 'xabesha' and 'abyssinia' were used interchangeably to describe the ruling Amxara, Orthodox Christian culture. After the decline of Axumite kingdom the Tigrayans lost control and got replaced with an Amxara dynasty, the Zagwe.

Now, this is a whole different topic but briefly, the Amxaras, who were southern Cushites/Agaws were serfs and low caste people in the Tigrayan society of Axum. After the Zagwe adopted Axumite culture they gave birth to the Amxaras and continued to rule for many years. The Tigrayans did get back some control later on but it was an on and off thing thorughout history. Amxaras/Agaws has always been separate from Tigrayans.

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Actually the demonym Habesha is an Egyptian term not Arabic.

I read that Habesha means "foreign incense growers" in the Egyptian language. It's no surprise, since the Egyptians imported most of their Frankincense from the HOA.

SOMALI GENERAL said:

Actually the demonym Habesha is an Egyptian term not Arabic.

I read that Habesha means "foreign incense growers" in the Egyptian language. It's no surprise, since the Egyptians imported most of the Frankincense from the HOA.

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Interesting, didn't think it would go al the way back to ancient Egypt. I thought the first to say it were the ancient Yemenites who went to war and got conquered by the Axumites. In fact, there's a large town in southern Yemen called 'Habash' and it's from the conquest. I think some places were named after general Abraha too but I'm not sure.

Axumites were called 'habesha', meaning mixed people, because they subjucated and ruled over Yemen using soldiers from all corners such as the Bejas, Nilotes, and their own soldiers ofc. There's a community in Yemen called 'Akhdam' and they're a low class Madow tribe, not liked very much to say the least. Local tradition say that they have a mixed Madow look because some of the Nilotic soldiers deployed by the Axumites mixed with the locals and stayed there during and after the occupation. Yemenis hated them cus they remind them of the conquest ffrom Tigray. In recent years some scholars have heavily disagreed with this theory of the origin of the Akhdam but even if it was false it tells a lot about how impactful the Axumite conquest of Yemen was on their people.

Waaqo of Punt said:

Interesting, didn't think it would go al the way back to ancient Egypt. I thought the first to say it were the ancient Yemenites who went to war and got conquered by the Axumites. In fact, there's a large town in southern Yemen called 'Habash' and it's from the conquest. I think some places were named after general Abraha too but I'm not sure.

Axumites were called 'habesha', meaning mixed people, because they subjucated and ruled over Yemen using soldiers from all corners such as the Bejas, Nilotes, and their own soldiers ofc. There's a community in Yemen called 'Akhdam' and they're a low class Madow tribe, not liked very much to say the least. Local tradition say that they have a mixed Madow look because some of the Nilotic soldiers deployed by the Axumites mixed with the locals and stayed there during and after the occupation. Yemenis hated them cus they remind them of the conquest ffrom Tigray. In recent years some scholars have heavily disagreed with this theory of the origin of the Akhdam but even if it was false it tells a lot about how impactful the Axumite conquest of Yemen was on their people.

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The oldest reference of "Habesha" was made by Queen Hatshepsut in 1450 BC.

She was referring to the people of Punt who grew incense etc. Other theories about the meaning of Habesha are bogus.

SOMALI GENERAL said:

My point is that Axumites are the ancestors of Habesha peoples. Gradually over time, Axumites diverged into different ethnic groups that all speak Ge'ez derived languages.

Since they all descend from the Axumites, they can all equally have a claim to Axum's heritage.

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Not fully correct. Axumites were exclusively Tigrayan/Tigre. The Amxaras came from Agaws, southern Cushites, and bordered Axum. Some were inside Axumite society though. Amxaras didn't speak Ge'ez nor had their culture, they were still had their Agaw Cushitic culture and were serfs in the Axumite society. The ones who got influenced by the Tigrayan/Axumite culture were Jews just like other Axumites but others didn't convert until later. So yh, the only claim Amxaras have to Axum is the Zagwe dynasty's succession and cultural appropiation for lack of better word.

Waaqo of Punt said:

The great general, Abraha, even built a Christian cathedral that still stands in Saan'a, Yemen till this day. Houses in Bombisho collapse after a year. The Axumites ahd the most advanced architecture in SSA after the ancient Egyptian civilisations.

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Truly impressive how tall "the church" stands.
Compare this specimen of Aksumite architectural longevity to "Bombadishu's", as you put it, lighthouse

Waaqo of Punt said:

The biblical figure known as the 'Queen of Sheba' came from Axum. She married Solomon and thus started the Solomonic dynasty of Ethiopia.

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Please explain to me how Queen Sheba was from Axum when Solomon ruled in the 10th century BC and Axum was founded in 100 AD?
The Queen of Sheba was Southern Arabian from the Sabaean Kingdom that lasted from 1200 to 800 BC.
Don't you dare mention Menelik the first (sheegato) and his phony claim of being the son of Solomon. There are no records of the early "Solomonic Dynasty" and if Menelik I was truly the son of Solomon and the Queen of Sheba wouldn't he be mentioned in the bible or in some other documents? A very odd omission, if you ask me. Menelik son of Solomon son of David

Waaqo of Punt said:

With pleasure. There's a whole website dedicated to the archeology of Somaliland and it talks a lot about Aksumite burial sites.

Here is the link to the website: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-015-9184-9

I'll give u a few snippets here...


View attachment 82359

Go read this section sxb!
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Some clans in Somaliland such as Yibir are well known to have been Christians/Jews before the expansion of Dir Muslims from the coast. Yibir literally translated to "Jew" in old Aff Sooomali, they are considered to be the original inhabitants of Woqoyi Galbeed. Might I add Yibir and others were their own ethnicities, becoming assimilated into the Somali confederation once the Dir Jihadist conquered them.