Who is considered a Somali? - Prof Cismaan Jawaarey

[Haragwaafi]

i find isaaqs who talk like that really weird. i understand hsm as he doesnt have qabiil stakes in ddsi. but an isaaq? damn. theyre basically saying screw my ilmo adeero itoobiya ha hoos noolaadaan.

Itoopiyan is a nationality not ethnicity inadeer

 

[Haragwaafi]

Not a graduate of Arabsiyo, by any chance, are you?

I'm not from there

 

[Haragwaafi]

Not to speak for them, but most politicians in SL seem to prefers it that way as they’ve accepted ‘xuduudaha ingiriiska na siiyay’. They also know that the moment they make it clear that they want Hawd back, that’s when their whole quest of secessionism ends because they themselves make claim on (former) colonial borders. It’s a case of catch-22

Hmm my friend Isaaqs don't claim another qabil territory the borders that politicians talk about is the old Somaliland state which is one of the shaanta soomaliyeed that got its independence 1st and for your knowledge the push for unionism was one about bringing Somali territories under one Somali state but since Xamar has relinquished its claims to k5 or NFD without even demarcating its borders with Ethiopia there's no reason for Hargeisa to continue being part of the union that failed its objectives.

 

[GaradShabeel]

Hmm my friend Isaaqs don't claim another qabil territory the borders that politicians talk about is the old Somaliland state which is one of the shaanta soomaliyeed that got its independence 1st and for your knowledge the push for unionism was one about bringing Somali territories under one Somali state but since Xamar has relinquished its claims to k5 or NFD without even demarcating its borders with Ethiopia there's no reason for Hargeisa to continue being part of the union that failed its objectives.

You've misunderstood my point. I wasn't talking about Isaaq taking another clan's territory. That's neither what I was trying to say as well as being irrelevant in this context.

@reer was wondering how SL-Isaaq could be fine will their clansmen living under Ethiopia rather than with their people in SL/Somalia. To which I said that the politicians of SL have accepted that Isaaq/other Somalis will remain part of Ethiopia since you've made it clear that you want to break off from Somalia. Because the basis of SL secession being the territory of the former British Somaliland (1/5 Somaliweyne), they can not lay claim on Hawd as that's part of Ethiopia due to colonial borders as well. In other words, if you want all shanta Soomaaliyeed to be separate, that will mean that not all Isaaq will remain in the same country.

Mida kale, the issue with the lack of recognition of SL has less to do with accepting the 'failure' of the union/attempts of reuniting shanta Soomaaliyeed. But more so with unionist within SL of the older borders. If SL as a sovereign state was supported in all regions and by the major clans of former British SL, I can guarantee you that you'd either be independent or close to it today. However, this has not been the case.

 

[Bowda-dheer]

Jawaari the drunkard who even listens to this shity politicians. Any somali has rights in Somalia as long as he has his own clan to look after him.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Any somali has rights in Somalia [ ... ]

You & @Abaq ought to be afforded audience with the PM in his stay in the US to register that point, and to make that drive it home, for if the said law is passed, it shall render a great deal of harm to citizens.

 

[Removed]

You & @Abaq ought to be afforded audience with the PM in his stay in the US to register that point, and to make that drive it home, for if the said law is passed, it shall render a great deal of harm to citizens.

First anyones hearing about it. Where was it proposed for it to pass. Who besides Jawaari a former minority politician even spoke on this?

The FGS is not at a stage now to control its borders or immigration for anyone to be worried and we will never let it get to that stage.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

First anyones hearing about it. Where was it proposed for it to pass. Who besides Jawaari a former minority politician even spoke on this?

The FGS is not at a stage now to control its borders or immigration for anyone to be worried and we will never let it get to that stage.

Snoring on the wheel, are we? It might be so, yet the current leadership in Xamar is on steroids dismantling the entire federal system only interested in implementing it as if a unitary system.

Here is the relevant document, but before you read it, reference Articles 47, 48, and 86 of the constitution.

http://gsh.parliament.gov.so/index.php/shaqada-baarlaamaanka/sharciyo?view=download&format=raw&fileId=113

 

[Aurelian]

A Somali who is not citizen of Somalia needs to wait 2 years to apply for the citizenship.

Disgusting, they are ruining Somalia. Look at any state that gives the citizenship based on either bloodline or kinship, Germany, Finland, etc. Finland actually was similar to our situation, lost lands to Russia, with finns inhabiting them, these finns gradually moved to finland after decades, and they get citzenship straight away. and this also applies to other European countries where the descendants of the migrats can get citizenship after proving their lineage.

 

[Removed]

Snoring on the wheel, are we? It might be so, yet the current leadership in Xamar is on steroids dismantling the entire federal system only interested in implementing it as if a unitary system.

Here is the relevant document, but before you read it, reference Articles 47, 48, and 86 of the constitution.

http://gsh.parliament.gov.so/index.php/shaqada-baarlaamaanka/sharciyo?view=download&format=raw&fileId=113

Maybe I am snoring on the wheel but I read this and only remember it talking about government structure. I dont see Qodobka 8aad mentioned anywhere which is regarding nationality/citizenship

Xamar has always been pro-centralism but it hasnt taken any steps to advance its ability to enforce its authority. At the end of the day proposed legislation against a provisional constitution isnt going to effect much. The will of Hawiye isnt enough to overcome 18 gobols and no not even with debt relief or a relaxed arms embargo both of those apply bilaterally and are bipartisan.

 

[TheLastWaryaa]

All the people who are against it will take it by force. Once you can't access any services like banking and getting a passport, and people don't want to do business with you then you will take it by force

 

[mohamedismail]

A Somali who is not citizen of Somalia needs to wait 2 years to apply for the citizenship.

Disgusting, they are ruining Somalia. Look at any state that gives the citizenship based on either bloodline or kinship, Germany, Finland, etc. Finland actually was similar to our situation, lost lands to Russia, with finns inhabiting them, these finns gradually moved to finland after decades, and they get citzenship straight away. and this also applies to other European countries where the descendants of the migrats can get citizenship after proving their lineage.

But that's the very thing we don't want. If all the people from Somali Galbeed/NFD were to migrate to Somalia and seek citizenship there. We would lose somaliweyn. Those lands would be left empty and taken over by other Ethiopian ethnic groups.

If we want to really maintain somaliweyn those Somalis in Ethiopia/Kenya need to stand their ground and stay in their regions. Which is why this law will be a good thing. Also someone of Somali ethnic origin only needs to settle in somalia for 2 years before gaining citizenship. Not bad to me.

 

[Gacmeey]

These vision less old men who treat governance and politics like a business will be the end of Somalia. If we only had visionaries like the zionists. Gah damn it wallahi ciil baa i qabta everytime I hear these odays waffling about citizenship. Why does a Somali person need to live in Somalia for 2 years before getting citizenship? What is this caqli xumo? Not only did these shayaateen loot our xoolo, they are now looting our somalinimo. Nacalaa ku yaal

 

[mohamedismail]

These vision less old men who treat governance and politics like a business will be the end of Somalia. If we only had visionaries like the zionists. Gah damn it wallahi ciil baa i qabta everytime I hear these odays waffling about citizenship. Why does a Somali person need to live in Somalia for 2 years before getting citizenship? What is this caqli xumo? Not only did these shayaateen loot our xoolo, they are now looting our somalinimo. Nacalaa ku yaal

You are conflating citizenship and ethnicity. Nobody is denying the ethnicity of these Somali people. The only debate is the nationality and Muwaadinimo of these people.

 

[Gacmeey]

You are conflating citizenship and ethnicity. Nobody is denying the ethnicity of these Somali people. The only debate is the nationality and Muwaadinimo of these people.

Every Somali person should have the right to be a citizen of Somalia without any conditions other than providing proof. It should be automatic. Ajnabis should under extremely limited circumstances be given citizenship.

Somali: Includes ethnic Somalis and those considered Somali in a broader sense like Somali bantu and Yemeni Somalis

 

[mohamedismail]

Every Somali person should have the right to be a citizen of Somalia without any conditions other than providing proof. It should be automatic. Ajnabis should under extremely limited circumstances be given citizenship.

Somali: Includes ethnic Somalis and those considered Somali in a broader sense like Somali bantu and Yemeni Somalis

What's the issue with putting a prerequisite of living in the country for 2 years?

I think that's pretty reasonable. So you want a somali from ethio/Kenya to automatically get citizenship making them equal to someone who has been paying tax for 50 years. That aint right to me.

 

[Gacmeey]

What's the issue with putting a prerequisite of living in the country for 2 years?

I think that's pretty reasonable. So you want a somali from ethio/Kenya to automatically get citizenship making them equal to someone who has been paying tax for 50 years. That aint right to me.

Yes because a Somali from Ethiopia or Kenya or any where else is entitled to that land as much as any other Somali. Tax should not be even discussed in this topic since you’ll have many Somalis who won’t pay not even a taano in tax yet they’ll be eligible for citizenship. How about the ajnabis paying truckloads in taxes, do we give them citizenship too?

My family for 10 generations has lived in eyl and much more than that in Somalia. I see someone putting a condition on my right to be a citizen of Somalia as a insult.

I haven’t even mentioned the alienation of these Somalis and the impact it’ll have on the future generations and our desire to get the lost lands back and the loss of potential GDP.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Maybe I am snoring on the wheel but I read this and only remember it talking about government structure.

Oh on the statement of 'snoring on the wheel', I was referring to us all. The question of nationality/citizenship, has been a thorny one for some, has been debated, and is being floated again. Did you listen to HSM or Jawaari talking about citizenship? They are pushing an agenda, which advocates for Confederacy of the Republic alone, and of excluding Somalis of occupied territories.

I dont see Qodobka 8aad mentioned anywhere which is regarding nationality/citizenship

The whole concept of issuing National ID is unconstitutional, for:
a) .So in its structure is not a unitary system of government,
b) The Fed. government's authority is confined at the Fed. government [level]
c) States are tasked with issuing IDs, elections, registration et cetera,
d) It breaches a number of Articles in the Federal charter

What do you think of Article 5?
As for Article 8, what do you think of sections (j) (l)?

Xamar has always been pro-centralism but it hasnt taken any steps to advance its ability to enforce its authority. At the end of the day proposed legislation against a provisional constitution isnt going to effect much. The will of Hawiye isnt enough to overcome 18 gobols and no not even with debt relief or a relaxed arms embargo both of those apply bilaterally and are bipartisan.

Actually, if you think about it, the Federal charter has been diluted insofar as its being unrecognisable, which poses a clear threat.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

You are right in spirit, but deadly wrong in principle. That is progress. Good man. Now, repeat this after me: said territories are under occupation?

But that's the very thing we don't want. If all the people from Somali Galbeed/NFD were to migrate to Somalia and seek citizenship there. We would lose somaliweyn. Those lands would be left empty and taken over by other Ethiopian ethnic groups.

The original policy was of two-fold:
a) The Republic is home to all Somalis regardless. When Somalis from the said regions incl. Jibouti come to the Republic, their ties deepen, resolve strengthened, and determination grown.
b) Migration is bidirectional esp. nomads; think about ingress human traffic into S Galbeed from Hawd, Mudug, W Galbeed and vice versa.

Now, think about a crazy toad like Jawaari rising to the higest office in the Republic, and demanding your relatives, of nomadic existence mind you, from said regions, to be carded as they cross the border into the Republic, and being told they were foreigners.

If we want to really maintain somaliweyn those Somalis in Ethiopia/Kenya need to stand their ground and stay in their regions. Which is why this law will be a good thing.

Said regions are under occupation. Do you not see that?
And it has the opposite effect, for Somalis in said territories are heavily tied to, influenced, and inspired by those in the Republic, and where you to alienate them, you severe the ties, break the bod, and do away with the the inspiration.

Also someone of Somali ethnic origin only needs to settle in somalia for 2 years before gaining citizenship. Not bad to me.

You do not require a citizen to naturalise in his own land.

 

[OreoMcflurry]

You are right in spirit, but deadly wrong in principle. That is progress. Good man. Now, repeat this after me: said territories are under occupation?

The original policy was of two-fold:
a) The Republic is home to all Somalis regardless. When Somalis from the said regions incl. Jibouti come to the Republic, their ties deepen, resolve strengthened, and determination grown.
b) Migration is bidirectional esp. nomads; think about ingress human traffic into S Galbeed from Hawd, Mudug, W Galbeed and vice versa.

Now, think about a crazy toad like Jawaari rising to the higest office in the Republic, and demanding your relatives, of nomadic existence mind you, from said regions, to be carded as they cross the border into the Republic, and being told they were foreigners.

Said regions are under occupation. Do you not see that?
And it has the opposite effect, for Somalis in said territories are heavily tied to, influenced, and inspired by those in the Republic, and where you to alienate them, you severe the ties, break the bod, and do away with the the inspiration.

You do not require a citizen to naturalise in his own land.

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