Who is considered a Somali? - Prof Cismaan Jawaarey

[Somali_patriotic]

Really uae or qatar nigeria has more oil then somalia and it still 3rd world country

Shell is on Nigeria's neck
Somalia is too corrupt that they didn't even think about getting our oil Alhamdulilah

 

[Cartan Boos]

I advice everyone to get it if your Somali, once the Oil starts flowing it will become like Qatar and UAE, hard to get citizenship.

nigga somalia will never be that, if one is denied citizenship they just gonna take it as insult towards their qabil kkk

 

[mohamedismail]

How is mentality backwards? The comparison you made with Oromos and Afars is totally unrrelated to that of Somalis.

The intentions behind the founding of the Somali republic was to be the nation-state of the Somali people worldwide. Hence the aspirations of uniting all Somali territories and achieving Somaliweyne. Neither Kenya/Ethiopia was supposed to be the nation-state of Oromos, nor Ethiopia/Eritrea/Djibouti for Afars.

That is a backwards mentality due to the fact that if everyone from NFD/DDS/Djibouti was to come to Somalia then that land would be taken over by other ethnicities. To maintain that Somaliweyn those Somalis need to stay in their region.

The reality is that the idea of bringing back somaliweyne under one nation is very unlikely. Even Somalis in Kenya / Ethiopia/ Djibouti have no intentions of rejoining Somalia. Even if they seccede from those countries they would like to be their own standalone country.

Taking that into consideration I consider those people foreign to the Somali nation causing them to not access citizenship unless they live in Somalia for 2 years.

I personally would go as far to say that Somaliweyn is dead. It's an ideology that has done nothing but hold back Somalia and it's progress.

 

[GaradShabeel]

That is a backwards mentality due to the fact that if everyone from NFD/DDS/Djibouti was to come to Somalia then that land would be taken over by other ethnicities. To maintain that Somaliweyn those Somalis need to stay in their region.

The reality is that the idea of bringing back somaliweyne under one nation is very unlikely. Even Somalis in Kenya / Ethiopia/ Djibouti have no intentions of rejoining Somalia. Even if they seccede from those countries they would like to be their own standalone country.

Taking that into consideration I consider those people foreign to the Somali nation causing them to not access citizenship unless they live in Somalia for 2 years.

I personally would go as far to say that Somaliweyn is dead. It's an ideology that has done nothing but hold back Somalia and it's progress.

I wasn't saying that people of NFD/DDS/Djibouti should leave their land and settle to Somalia. Or that Somalia should aspire for Somaliweyne today. But instead that the foundations of Somalia being the concept of a united nation-state of the Somali people and their native territories.

Hence, why it's not backwards for people to believe in the very same principles your country is built upon. It's evident that people share different views today on whether we should seek a complete Somaliweyne and how realistic it is, but it's irrelevant to what I'm speaking off.

 

[reer]

I wasn't saying that people of NFD/DDS/Djibouti should leave their land and settle to Somalia. Or that Somalia should aspire for Somaliweyne today, but that the foundations of Somalia being the concept of a united nation-state of the Somali people and their native territories. Hence, why it's not backwards for people to believing in the principles your country is built upon. It's evident that people share different stances today on whether we should seek a complete Somaliweyne or how realistic it is, but it's irrelevant to what I'm speaking off.

kkk i dont think he knows how ridiculous he sounds.

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[mohamedismail]

I wasn't saying that people of NFD/DDS/Djibouti should leave their land and settle to Somalia. Or that Somalia should aspire for Somaliweyne today, but that the foundations of Somalia being the concept of a united nation-state of the Somali people and their native territories. Hence, why it's not backwards for people to believing in the principles your country is built upon. It's evident that people share different stances today on whether we should seek a complete Somaliweyne or how realistic it is, but it's irrelevant to what I'm speaking off.

Somalia may have been built upon that foundation 60 years ago. I don't disagree with that point you are totally right with regards to that.

But post 60 years since Somalia was created many people have lost hope in the somaliweyn ideology. Today Somalis in DDS have a higher standard of living then those in Somalia.

My main point is Somalis from the nation of somalia need to focus on themselves rather then this imaginary somaliweyn that most likely will never happen.

 

[GaradShabeel]

Somalia may have been built upon that foundation 60 years ago. I don't disagree with that point you are totally right with regards to that.

But post 60 years since Somalia was created many people have lost hope in the somaliweyn ideology. Today Somalis in DDS have a higher standard of living then those in Somalia.

My main point is Somalis from the nation of somalia need to focus on themselves rather then this imaginary somaliweyn that most likely will never happen.

But that's what Somalia has already been doing for the past 40-50 years, i.e. focusing on themselves within the country just like the Somalis of DDS/NFD/Djibouti. You can continue prioritizing yourself as we're not bothering you or standing in your way. The nationality laws are the only remnants of 'Somaliweyne', which is why I don't see why it's a big deal.

 

[mohamedismail]

But that's what Somalia already have been doing for the past 40-50 years, i.e. focusing on themselves within the country just like the Somalis of DDS/NFD/Djibouti. You can continue prioritizing yourself as we're not bothering you or standing in your way. The nationality laws are the only remnants of 'Somaliweyne', which is why I don't see what why it's a big deal.

You have to take in to consideration that one of the biggest factors of the civil war was the 1977 war in Ethiopia. After that war the Ethiopians armed all the different rebel clans ssdf, usc, spm etc. And from that time they have been doing the same thing supporting the different Maamul goboleed.

From that you can conclude that our current state has a lot to do with the 1977 invasion of Ethiopia which was to bring that region back.

 

[GaradShabeel]

You have to take in to consideration that one of the biggest factors of the civil war was the 1977 war in Ethiopia. After that war the Ethiopians armed all the different rebel clans ssdf, usc, spm etc. And from that time they have been doing the same thing supporting the different Maamul goboleed.

From that you can conclude that our current state has a lot to do with the 1977 invasion of Ethiopia which was to bring that region back.

I don't disregard that, but ever since then, irrespective of the repercussions from the war (imo the rebels would've happen sooner of later, maybe not foreign backed), it's been everyone for themselves. Somalia for themselves. DDS for themselves, likewise for NFD.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

This man, along with those of similar ideologies, pose a grave threat to Somalinimo, and is being motivated by ulterior motives, perhaps unknown to them, only serving colonial masters, of which intent goes beyond the surface. Installing illegal barriers between, and borders amongst families to protect and serve colonial interest is a scourge on colonial legacy bedeviling unsuspecting natives. The reason Af Maay was adopted as a Somali language was to do away with perceived multi-tier citizenship, yet here is 70+ year old Jawaari espousing colonial legacy by classifying native Somalis foreigners, when an eon old national policy, enshrined in the Republic's constitution, had been all Somalis irrespective of their place of birth, most notably Jibouti, S Galbeed and NFD, are by deafult citizens of the Republic, the sole sovereign nation of the Somali people. It was intended to secure the future of Somali citizenry in said regions under occupation, with Jibouti becoming the exception, as a sovereign State on merit, post its independence in 1977, where pre independence then policy applied to it too. If one gets the change, one must read as to the role the Republic played in Jibouti's independence, and as to how its independence came to pass in the heels of the attempted S Galbeed liberation of 1977.

Current crop of political leaders in .So are beholden to their masters, and are only advancing their strategies. True citizens of .So must reject loudly, and send a message to the likes of Jawaari that said policies are abominably unconstitutional, if illegal.

If this is not challenged, then second-tier citizens shall come to pass, with minorities being relegated to a second class social and political status, where many incl. Jawaari shall bear the brunt of it for years to come. It must be noted there are loud voices, a minority, who regard reer SWest non-citizens, and these types of policies advance such abhorrent views.

 

[mohamedismail]

If this is not challenged, then second-tier citizens shall come to pass, with minorities being relegated to a second class social and political status, where many incl. Jawaari shall bear the brunt of it for years to come. It must be noted there are loud voices, a minority, who regard reer SWest non-citizens, and these types of policies advance such abhorrent views.

On what basis though?

On what basis are reer SW lower tier citizens/non citizens. Do they have a actual argument for why? Or is it baseless.

First of all reer SWS are not minorities but arguably the biggest clan in Somalia.

Also on what basis can you say minorities are non citizens.

When it comes to Reer DDS/NFD/Djibouti aren't citizens has a clear basis. And that is they don't live in Somalia and they don't contribute to taxes.

The point that reer SWS and minorities are second class/ non citizens has no absolute basis so I don't see it being implemented. It's purely based on hate rhetoric and Qabyaalad no logical answer.

 

[OreoMcflurry]

This man, along with those of similar ideologies, pose a grave threat to Somalinimo, and is being motivated by ulterior motives, perhaps unknown to them, only serving colonial masters, of which intent goes beyond the surface. Installing illegal barriers between, and borders amongst families to protect and serve colonial interest is a scourge on colonial legacy bedeviling unsuspecting natives. The reason Af Maay was adopted as a Somali language was to do away with perceived multi-tier citizenship, yet here is 70+ year old Jawaari espousing colonial legacy by classifying native Somalis foreigners, when an eon old national policy, enshrined in the Republic's constitution, had been all Somalis irrespective of their place of birth, most notably Jibouti, S Galbeed and NFD, are by deafult citizens of the Republic, the sole sovereign nation of the Somali people. It was intended to secure the future of Somali citizenry in said regions under occupation, with Jibouti becoming the exception, as a sovereign State on merit, post its independence in 1977, where pre independence then policy applied to it too. If one gets the change, one must read as to the role the Republic played in Jibouti's independence, and as to how its independence came to pass in the heels of the attempted S Galbeed liberation of 1977.

Current crop of political leaders in .So are beholden to their masters, and are only advancing their strategies. True citizens of .So must reject loudly, and send a message to the likes of Jawaari that said policies are abominably unconstitutional, if illegal.

If this is not challenged, then second-tier citizens shall come to pass, with minorities being relegated to a second class social and political status, where many incl. Jawaari shall bear the brunt of it for years to come. It must be noted there are loud voices, a minority, who regard reer SWest non-citizens, and these types of policies advance such abhorrent views.

A European who came to the US would easily be considered an American citizen where as a Somali from another region is considered non Somali citizen and would take 2 years to become a Somali citizen.

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[reer_ugaas_hussein]

I agree with the Prof in his idea of who is and is not Somali. What most people are misunderstanding is the difference between citizenship and nationality.

The reality is that a Somali citizen and a Somali who is a citizen of NFD/DDS/Djibouti aren't equal. They cannot have equal rights. One pays tax to the FGS developing his country the other doesn't. How could they have equal rights politically?

How anyone can have a problem with this I don't understand.

How is this gonna work sxb, a portion of your own clan lives outside of somalia, are you going to tell the Leysan they will get the ID but their relatives on the other side won't? This is not feasible nor are somalis going to ever accept it as most have relatives who they won't let go just because of a fake colonial border.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

On what basis though?

On what basis are reer SW lower tier citizens/non citizens. Do they have a actual argument for why? Or is it baseless.

First of all reer SWS are not minorities but arguably the biggest clan in Somalia.

Also on what basis can you say minorities are non citizens.

On the basis of their being ethnic Somalis, native to Somali lands of any. The simple fact you are arguing against it, or raising it, tell me you might be a non-native.

When it comes to Reer DDS/NFD/Djibouti aren't citizens has a clear basis. And that is they don't live in Somalia and they don't contribute to taxes.

You are awfully green. Re-read.

The point that reer SWS and minorities are second class/ non citizens has no absolute basis so I don't see it being implemented. It's purely based on hate rhetoric and Qabyaalad no logical answer.

Re-read the last sentence. There are voices, who are of the view that if you speak any language other than Somali, as your first, then you are ethnically not Somali.

A European who came to the US would easily be considered an American citizen where as a Somali from another region is considered non Somali citizen and would take 2 years to become a Somali citizen.

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By virtue of ethnicity.

 

[mohamedismail]

How is this gonna work sxb, a portion of your own clan lives outside of somalia, are you going to tell the Leysan they will get the ID but their relatives on the other side won't? This is not feasible nor are somalis going to ever accept it as most have relatives who they won't let go just because of a fake colonial border.

Totally. I am totally cool with the fact that leysaans living in DDS/Mandera will have to go through this process to gain their citizenship. I don't have any double standards.

They must accept it as it's gonna be passed as a law. I don't see the big issue tbh. You only have to reside in Somalia for 2 years that's light.

 

[mohamedismail]

You are awfully green. Re-read.

Re-read the last sentence. There are voices, who are of the view that if you speak any language other than Somali, as your first, then you are ethnically not Somali.


By virtue of ethnicity.

Those "Voices" are totally baseless. Second of all we are currently speaking about nationality not ethnicity.

For arguments sake if I as a Raxanweyn am not by some considered ethnic Somali ( which is ridiculous) I couldn't care less. At the end of the day I am nationally a Somali.

If people want to argue that 7 million plus Raxanweyns in Somalia are not ethnic somali then that is only detrimental to them. They are basically saying that somalia is a multi ethnic country which will debunk the " one ethnicity, one language" rhetoric.

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

Totally. I am totally cool with the fact that leysaans living in DDS/Mandera will have to go through this process to gain their citizenship. I don't have any double standards.

They must accept it as it's gonna be passed as a law. I don't see the big issue tbh. You only have to reside in Somalia for 2 years that's light.

You may personally accept it but Somali clans won't including yours sxb. No Somali will accept that his own cousin will have to naturalize how light it may be, this will be impossible to implement by any government.

 

[Reformed J]

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[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Those "Voices" are totally baseless. Second of all we are currently speaking about nationality not ethnicity.

For arguments sake if I as a Raxanweyn am not by some considered ethnic Somali ( which is ridiculous) I couldn't care less. At the end of the day I am nationally a Somali.

If people want to argue that 7 million plus Raxanweyns in Somalia are not ethnic somali then that is only detrimental to them. They are basically saying that somalia is a multi ethnic country which will debunk the " one ethnicity, one language" rhetoric.

The former (ethnicity) is requisite for the latter (nationality), unless of course one is naturalised.

 

[mohamedismail]

The former (ethnicity) is requisite for the latter (nationality), unless of course one is naturalised.

Even in that case on what bases can someone say raxanweyn aren't ethnically Somali?

Under what basis? What makes Hawiye,Daarood, Dir Somali that Raxanweyn doesn't have. The fact we speak Maay?

It's baseless and ridiculous and will never happen. The day Raxanweyn aren't classed as Somali is the day the Somali state will cease to exist.