Gay and lesbian Somalis

[Periplus]

How can you condemn rape and at the same time support the rapists not to be jailed ? what absurdity is this ? can you not see your contradiction ? something has to give you can't not hold on to 2 contradictions beliefs at the same time sxb

In an ideal world, I would want all rapists to be jailed. But if a government has legalised it, then I do not support them being jailed because at the end of the day they are doing a legal act.

Their actions are the fault of the government that has decided to do the wrong thing by legalising their behaviour. You cannot blame someone for doing something that is legal.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

I do not advocate or support nor do I discriminate or hate.

My opinion is that a secular government should not discriminate against LGBT people.

You are making roundabout arguments but this is the key issue here. Tell me why I am wrong in thinking a secular government should not discriminate against LGBT people.


You explicitly stated you supported gay rights, how in the world is this not advocating and supporting gay rights ?

It's you who's deflecting and hiding what you really believe in, secular government or not you can't advocate claim that it's homosexuality is haram in one instance and support it at the same time.

Does Allah say to us that it's only haram to support zina, homosexuality in muslim countries only ?

 

[Periplus]

@AdoonkaAlle I said in the thread you originally quoted about my opinion on gay rights that I support their right not to be discriminated against in a secular country. That is what I meant by gay rights.

That has nothing to do with religion. I support the right for a mushrik to practice their religion in a secular country because they are guaranteed freedom of religion. That opinion could very well be different to my religious opinion.

 

[Periplus]

Here is what I said in that thread about what I meant by rights:

I mean they are also a minority group that faces discrimination.

You do not have to like them but you also have to see the logic of seeing why its important to have anti-discrimination laws for them.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

In an ideal world, I would want all rapists to be jailed. But if a government has legalised it, then I do not support them being jailed because at the end of the day they are doing a legal act.

Their actions are the fault of the government that has decided to do the wrong thing by legalising their behaviour. You cannot blame someone for doing something that is legal.

Not only are you liable but will also be committing a major sin that can lead you to kufr and leaving islam altogether for obeying others in their right to legislate and allow what Allah has made haram.

There's no obedience to the creation when it relates to disobeying Allah

 

[Periplus]

Not only are you liable but will also be committing a major sin that can lead you to kufr and leaving islam altogether for obeying others in their right to legislate and allow what Allah has made haram.

There's no obedience to the creation when it relates to disobeying Allah

As I said. If a secular country wants to legalise rape, I disagree with it and condemn but if they start arresting people for doing something they legislated, they are hypocrites.

At the end of the day, the Western society we live in is a catch-22: The same rights that protect us also protect people whose views we may not necessarily agree with. By dismantling those rights for them, we inevitably dismantle it for ourselves.

That is the price we paid to live here. Maybe one day, we can live in Somalia and there will be the opportunity for legislators to build a strong legal framework but until then I live in place where my rights mean that everybody else has rights, even those that disagree or agree with me.

I am sure you are able to understand this viewpoint.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

@AdoonkaAlle I said in the thread you originally quoted about my opinion on gay rights that I support their right not to be discriminated against in a secular country. That is what I meant by gay rights.

That has nothing to do with religion. I support the right for a mushrik to practice their religion in a secular country because they are guaranteed freedom of religion. That opinion could very well be different to my religious opinion.

Denouncing and being vocal against lgbt is considered to be discrimination against them meaning you can't have any religious opposition to homosexuality as this is seen as being "homophobic" people have lost their jobs simply for allegedly using the wrong pronouns to describe some of the lgbt people

Most importantly supporting gay rights means you support the right for them to engage in homosexual acts, how is this not supporting haram sxb ? we considers christians and jews to be part of the mushrikeen but in the sharia they're allowed to practice their religion with certain limitations but this is different than lgbt as it islam completely bans it

 

[Periplus]

Denouncing and being vocal against lgbt is considered to be discrimination against them meaning you can't have any religious opposition to homosexuality as this is seen as being "homophobic" people have lost their jobs simply for allegedly using the wrong pronouns to describe some of the lgbt people

No, your right to be vocal is supported in many Western countries. In the US for example, the First Amendment gives you right to unrestricted free speech which allows for any sort of rhetoric.

Most importantly supporting gay rights means you support the right for them to engage in homosexual acts, how is this not supporting haram sxb ? we considers christians and jews to be part of the mushrikeen but in the sharia they're allowed to practice their religion with certain limitations but this is different than lgbt as it islam completely bans it

I said, I support their right not to be discriminated against in a secular country, I never said I support or do not support their right to engage in homosexuality.

You are conflating an anti-discriminatory stance with supporting someone's actions.

 

[Shimbiris]

No, your right to be vocal is supported in many Western countries. In the US for example, the First Amendment gives you right to unrestricted free speech which allows for any sort of rhetoric.

There are limits on speech everywhere, walaal. There are libel, slander and hate speech laws in the USA and you of course can't make death threats or calls to violence.

 

[Periplus]

There are limits on speech everywhere, walaal. There are libel, slander and hate speech laws in the USA and you of course can't make death threats or calls to violence.

In US, hate speech is protected under the First Amendment. That's why the KKK is still allowed to exist.

 

[Shimbiris]

In US, hate speech is protected under the First Amendment. That's why the KKK is still allowed to exist.

To an extent. You can still get into trouble if you assault someone and call them a n*gger to boot and the rest of what I said still stands. Libel, slander, death threats, calls to violence... there is no country in the world where you can say WHATEVER you want with zero consequences.

 

[Periplus]

To an extent. You can still get into trouble if you assault someone and call them a n*gger to boot and the rest of what I said still stands. Libel, slander, death threats, calls to violence... there is no country in the world where you can say WHATEVER you want with zero consequences.

Well you should not be able to do that in any country, in my opinion. However, if you want to criticise or rail against certain practices its your right in a secular nation.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

As I said. If a secular country wants to legalise rape, I disagree with it and condemn but if they start arresting people for doing something they legislated, they are hypocrites.

You stated that you would be against the imprisonment of the rapist simply because rape was legalised. I criticized you for this because you can't condemn rape and at the same time support the rapist not to be jailed. It's a logical contradiction to have such conflicting views, your support of the rapist is based on the simple fact that rape is not a crime. Now since rape is not a crime it's impossible for you to then condemn the rapist for rape.

Your support of the rapists entails injustice on the victim and islamically you're held responsible for supporting transgression regardless of what the secular law states. Similarly you're held responsible for advocating for haram whether you live in a muslim country or not.

At the end of the day, the Western society we live in is a catch-22: The same rights that protect us also protect people whose views we may not necessarily agree with. By dismantling those rights for them, we inevitably dismantle it for ourselves.

That is the price we paid to live here. Maybe one day, we can live in Somalia and there will be the opportunity for legislators to build a strong legal framework but until then I live in place where my rights mean that everybody else has rights, even those that disagree or agree with me.

I am sure you are able to understand this viewpoint.

Very weak argument could you list down what rights muslims are denied ? what laws prohibits us from practising our faith ? are muslims detained, killed or evicted from their homes en masse ? are muslims denied basic rights ? majority of muslims in secular western countries go about their daily lives without incident. Most importantly acknowledging that muslims do face some forms of hostility, injustice etc doesn't mean that we need to align ourselves with the lgbt as if this is the only option that we've got

If and when the severity of the injustices increases and muslims are denied basic rights then muslims should only choose to enter into partnership etc for those specific issues and not provide wholesale support for lgbt and everything they want.

As it stands there's no need for muslims to rally behind lgbt community as the harms far outweigh any potential benefits that will be gained from allying with them. I've yet to see any sort of partnership with the lgbt community where muslims confidently state the islamic position regarding gays, they all just cower away for fear of being cancelled by their lgbt allies.


Take yourself for instance and the cognitive dissonance that you display in this discussion. You can't even bring yourself to acknowledge the contradiction in your views about supporting gay rights. Even in the examples of the state legalizing murder, rape you still display the same contradictions and keep on deflecting

Don't ever get tired of trying to justify unislamic positions ?

 

[Shimbiris]

Well you should not be able to do that in any country, in my opinion. However, if you want to criticise or rail against certain practices its your right in a secular nation.

You'd be surprised how much you can legally say in Somalia. At least in comparison to where I am in the gulf it's quite free back home. I remember when I first saw someone insulting the shit out of a politician on Somali TV and was just in shock cos if I did that in the gulf I'd be disappeared before I left the station.

 

[Periplus]

Very weak argument could you list down what rights muslims are denied ? what laws prohibits us from practising our faith ? are muslims detained, killed or evicted from their homes en masse ? are muslims denied basic rights ? majority of muslims in secular western countries go about their daily lives without incident. Most importantly acknowledging that muslims do face some forms of hostility, injustice etc doesn't mean that we need to align ourselves with the lgbt as if this is the only option that we've got.


If and when the severity of the injustices increases and muslims are denied basic rights then muslims should only choose to enter into partnership etc for those specific issues and not provide wholesale support for lgbt and everything they want.

As it stands there's no need for muslims to rally behind lgbt community as the harms far outweigh any potential benefits that will be gained from allying with them. I've yet to see any sort of partnership with the lgbt community where muslims confidently state the islamic position regarding gays, they all just cower away for fear of being cancelled by their lgbt allies.


Take yourself for instance and the cognitive dissonance that you display in this discussion. You can't even bring yourself to acknowledge the contradiction in your views about supporting gay rights. Even in the examples of the state legalizing murder, rape you still display the same contradictions and keep on deflecting

Don't ever get tired of trying to justify unislamic positions ?

I never said Muslims were denied rights but I said if you dismantle the rights of a minority in a Western country, it allows for the dismantling of your rights.

This is called legal precedence, you can read about it here:

Precedent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Protecting the non-discrimination of all minorities is already a well-established fact.

This is called minority rights, it provides us and them the freedom to exist, you can read it here:

Precedent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How are you going to make an argument with me about law and governance without having basic knowledge on these founding principles.

It is like me talking about the Japanese grammar despite not knowing one word of Japanese.

As for your condescending statement of whether I get tired of justifying unislamic positions, each religious argument I have had with you has been due to you calling me out not the other way around.

Also, you were the one that refused to admit that one should not marry more than once if they could not afford it despite it being a well established part of the Shafiici madhab.

I still never received any proof from you that Shafiici encouraged polygamy or supported people who could not afford polygamy to marry more than once.

And you say I try to justify un-Islamic positions.

 

[Basra]

How can i get a thread with platinum 10k??? This is outrageous. Why are Somalis obsessed with GAYS? Perhaps i should start my own thread to get platinum.


I am a lesbian.

 

[Periplus]

How can i get a thread with platinum 10k??? This is outrageous. Why are Somalis obsessed with GAYS? Perhaps i should start my own thread to get platinum.


I am a lesbian.



View attachment 193442

Half of this thread has been people accusing me of being a gay-rights activist and a murtad and many other things I have now forgotten.

At least 25 pages on this thread have nothing to do with the topic.

 

[Basra]

Half of this thread has been people accusing me of being a gay-rights activist and a murtad and many other things I have now forgotten.

At least 25 pages on this thread have nothing to do with the topic.

Well .....cough cough they are right huuno @Farahslayer

 

[Periplus]

Well .....cough cough they are right huuno @Farahslayer

Eedo, do not forget what you said earlier on this thread haye.......

LOVE IS LOVE huuno

 

[Basra]

Eedo, do not forget what you said earlier on this thread haye.......

Love is Love because i don't make it a big deal. I am live and let live kinda single motherrrrr