Would you guys marry a single mother ?

[reer]

You are right, it was common for divorced women to be remarried. Some sub sub subclans from different clans are presumably related through a shared maternal ancestor.

Among FOB Somalis in the diaspora it is a bit more complicated. Many mature men seek second wives to avoid Zina. I know of several cases where men have sent their wives abroad to raise the children in an Islamic environment and then marry a divorcee in the UK so as to avoid Zina. The second FOB wife is normally happy with the arrangement partly for financial reasons but also because they may have needs. These guys only visit the second wife a couple of days a week and provide her with an allowance. They do not mingle with the kids she already has. The more knowledgeable can correct me but i heard that such an arrangement can be negotiated before the Nikah by both parties.

Things don't always go according to plan though especially when the 1st wife finds out. This religious guy who helped manage a Mosque part time did the above but backtracked when the first wife threatened to return with the kids. Somali society is close knit and information spreads fast.

yep plenty of older garoobs with ciyaal way aqbalayaan a few nights a week of a husband and inuu masruufkeeda siiyo and stay with them a few nights a week. people underestimate the want for opposite gender's companionship.

 

[Bundasliga]

I've seen that mentality. They behave as though if a guy is from the same qabil and they know his abo he is basically the best of the best. They don't do background checks, they don't find out any personal details about him and they naively assume that he'll have the characteristics of his father they probably knew back in Somalia 20+ odd years ago. I think its so sad, because as a father, you should have your daughter's best interest at the forefront, not your qabil and not habel habel you knew years ago who is blantantly using you and your daughter so that his son can get to the West and dump her.

It's weird & useless especially for us diaspora when the men & women are desperate to find suitable partners we don't need more obstacles as we already have.

I heard about a xalimo whose parents denied her several faraxs because of qabil & at the end she married an ajnabi lol

 

[Angelina]

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Men and women aren't the same. You sure love reminding me, so i'll remind you.

Whilst yes women need companionship as much as men, women also need commitment and stability and a man who already has a wife and isn't providing for you on top of that isn't giving you stability and that feeling of being looked after which women crave.
The way men show their sense of responsibility is by providing and actually being there for you. In those unions you have described that is rarely the case and women end up being hurt and feeling used.

 

[Angelina]

It's weird & useless especially for us diaspora when the men & women are desperate to find suitable partners we don't need more obstacles as we already have.

I heard about a xalimo whose parents denied her several faraxs because of qabil & at the end she married an ajnabi lol

Serves the parents right. Play silly games, win silly prizes.

 

[reer]

It's weird & useless especially for us diaspora when the men & women are desperate to find suitable partners we don't need more obstacles as we already have.

I heard about a xalimo whose parents denied her several faraxs because of qabil & at the end she married an ajnabi lol

 

[anonimo]

The arrangement you're talking about is called Nikkah Al misyr. Whilst its technically allowed, majoring of scholars have outlawed it as they believe it goes against the Islamic spirit of marriage and because this union caused/causes a lot of issues.

A huge issue I find within the Somali community is husband's willingness to send the wife away and live apart. You hardly see that arrangement with the Arabs and Asians. The wives go where the husband goes, the husband would never feel comfortable with sending his wife to a foreign country without him being by her side and nor would the wives themselves. Yet in our community, both husband and wife have no issues living apart. It really is what causes the destruction of their marriages and it isn't fair for the kids. That is partially why divorce isn't seen as a big deal as couples already life as single parents well before talaq is uttered.

All in all, we need to do better.

These Somalis I am talking about don't go that deep. Like Reer highlighted, it is a common practice and I bet you they just do s standard Nikah but both parties know where they stand.

I wouldn't judge them too harshly. They make a sacrifice for the sake of their kids to be honest. Most cannot afford to both migrate so the husband stays behind and finances them. They are just scared of raising children in the West and feel they will have a better chance if the environment is Islamic. This is obviously not always necessary the case due to the globalisation of fitnah.

As for Somali women being sent alone, we never had a strong Dhaqan when it comes to women. How often do you see Arab or Afghan tahribin on their own? Somali waa bakhti when it comes to this. I do not want to go further but we have all heard of the horror stories. Also, women have more naxaris towards their kin so many Somalis nowadays like sending daughters abroad because they are better at sending back remittances.

 

[Peache]

I've seen that mentality. They behave as though if a guy is from the same qabil and they know his abo he is basically the best of the best. They don't do background checks, they don't find out any personal details about him and they naively assume that he'll have the characteristics of his father they probably knew back in Somalia 20+ odd years ago. I think its so sad, because as a father, you should have your daughter's best interest at the forefront, not your qabil and not habel habel you knew years ago who is blantantly using you and your daughter so that his son can get to the West and dump her.

It was mostly my mother’s idea and ex husband idea. My dad since he was the “stepdad” knew it was a bad idea but couldn’t have a say so. It’s confusing but it what’s happened.

 

[Mount23]

Single mothers should be more wary, pedophiles and predators are more attracted to them as they see them as being vulnerable

Dont know how parents can trust their children to be raised by non-kin, females are more naive though

 

[anonimo]

It's weird & useless especially for us diaspora when the men & women are desperate to find suitable partners we don't need more obstacles as we already have.

I heard about a xalimo whose parents denied her several faraxs because of qabil & at the end she married an ajnabi lol

You are judging these older folk who may have been traumatised by what happened during the war from a more neutral viewpoint. Maybe their kin were killed etc. hence the Cuqdad.

This poor Xalimo had several guys rejected by her dad, what did she go and do? Marry an Ajnabi and she made it clear that it wasn't her ideal choice. The dad wavered and approved the marriage.

 

[Angelina]

These Somalis I am talking about don't go that deep. Like Reer highlighted, it is a common practice and I bet you they just do s standard Nikah but both parties know where they stand.

I wouldn't judge them too harshly. They make a sacrifice for the sake of their kids to be honest. Most cannot afford to both migrate so the husband stays behind and finances them. They are just scared of raising children in the West and feel they will have a better chance if the environment is Islamic. This is obviously not always necessary the case due to the globalisation of fitnah.

As for Somali women being sent alone, we never had a strong Dhaqan when it comes to women. How often do you see Arab or Afghan tahribin on their own? Somali waa bakhti when it comes to this. I do not want to go further but we have all heard of the horror stories. Also, women have more naxaris towards their kin so many Somalis nowadays like sending daughters abroad because they are better at sending back remittances.

Nikkah Al misyr is a regular marriage in which both parties know where they stand. The husband doesn't fully provide or spend the same amount of time as he does with the other wife. So its precisely what you were describing.

Its one thing to send an unmarried girl, even though it isn't recommended. But its another to send your wife and make her raise the kids all alone like a single mother and then marry again because 'I have urges'. What about the 1st wife? What about her need for her husband to be there? What about her need to have a man share the burden of raising kids? There is a reason why in Islam couples aren't supposed to be more 4 months apart from each other.

Also, I fail to see what sacrifices the father is making in this regard. He is living the life he used to live, no more kids buuq and a new woman to warm his bed. I can't just blame the men though as its the women who agree to leaving to another country alone and sign up to raising them alone.

 

[Sophisticate]

Only you would call co-parenting as "logistical complexities".

Imagine seeing a single mother looking at the kids thinking "man, this is a logistical problem".

I mean children are called precious cargo. And ex-spouses stage pickups and drop offs. You'll definitely get entangled in that process somewhere in that supply chain. And there will most certainly be a meltdown.

Off the record, that remark may have been mechanistic but the motivation behind it was compassionate. I would prefer to be a mentor or adopt a child than be a step-parent. For starters, there is some subconscious enmity toward step mothers. If you love the child as your own and invest time, energy, money and care in them it could be all ripped away if you unfortunately divorce the parent. Sadly, that amounts to divorcing the poor child as well. And that would be shattering not just to you but to the child who has become attached to you.

 

[anonimo]

Nikkah Al misyr is a regular marriage in which both parties know where they stand. The husband doesn't fully provide or spend the same amount of time as the other wife. So its precisely what you were describing.

Its one thing to send an unmarried girl, even though it isn't recommended. But its another to send your wife and make her raise the kids all alone like a single mother and then marry again because 'I have urges'. What about the 1st wife? What about her need for husband to be there? What about her need to have a man share the burden of raising kids? There is a reason why in Islam couples aren't supposed to be more 4 months apart from each other.

Also, I fail to see what sacrifices the father is making in this regard. He is living the life he used to live, no more kids buuq and a new woman to warm his bed. I can't just blame the men though as its the women who agree to leaving to another country alone and sign up to raising them alone.

All I stated was that they do not even acknowledge it as being this sort of Nikah. They just call a few elders and get on with it, no agreement regarding conjugal rights etc. is reached.

Like I said, these couples make the sacrifice together. I also doubt most of these women would accept to not being sent abroad without being financed adequately to sustain maids etc. and they definitely will go where they have social contacts. As for urges, as long as the wife agrees to living apart for an extended period of time, it ain't haram.

Regarding your last paragraph, I don't dispute that. Such a man is set!

 

[Angelina]

All I stated was that they do not even acknowledge it as being this sort of Nikah. They just call a few elders and get on with it, no agreement regarding conjugal rights etc. is reached.

Like I said, these couples make the sacrifice together. I also doubt most of these women would accept to not being sent abroad without being financed adequately to sustain maids etc. and they definitely will go where they have social contacts. As for urges, as long as the wife agrees to living apart for an extended period of time, it ain't haram.

The point isn't what they acknowledge. The point is that is the name of the definition you provided.

A woman who lives apart and sees her husband a few times a week is misyr, whether they think or say it is.

Urges are something both husband and wife have. One party is sacrificing this urge for the sake of their kids and are playing single mum. While one party stays home and gets it on with a new woman. So what sacrifice is the father making?

As you can see, there seems to be no unity, no sense of being family orientated and or stability.

The point of marriage is BOTH husband and wife to have companionship for BOTH husband and wife to have their sexual urges fulfilled and so that kids can be raised in a home with BOTH mum and dad.

 

[reer]

The point isn't what they acknowledge. That is the name of the definition you provided.

A woman who lives apart and sees her husband a few times a week is misyr, whether they think or say it is.

Urges are something both husband and wife have. One party is sacrificing this urge for the sake of their kids and are playing single mum. While one party stays home and gets it on with a new woman. So what sacrifice is the father making?

As you can see, there seems to be no unity, no sense of being family orientated and or stability.

The point of marriage is BOTH husband and wife to have companionship and so that kids can be raised in a home with BOTH mum and dad.

easier said than done. if you have 2 wives you cant stay with both every night. an older single mom is more independent than an inan. she will accept being 2nd wife and a few nights a week and he provides for her.

 

[anonimo]

The point isn't what they acknowledge. That is the name of the definition you provided.

A woman who lives apart and sees her husband a few times a week is misyr, whether they think or say it is.

Urges are something both husband and wife have. One party is sacrificing this urge for the sake of their kids and are playing single mum. While one party stays home and gets it on with a new woman.

As you can see, there seems to be no unity, no sense of being family orientated and or stability.

The point of marriage is BOTH husband and wife to have companionship and so that kids can be raised in a home with BOTH mum and dad.

I ain't saying it isn't Nikah Misayr, was merely highlighting how they do it, and how many aren't even aware of this fact.


But real life ain't ideal, especially for the fairer sex in many circumstances. In a perfect Angelina world, this wouldn't happen. The sacrifices they make is up to them, who am I to judge them for it? If both parties accept the status quo, all the best to them.

 

[Angelina]

I ain't saying it isn't Nikah Misayr, was merely highlighting how they do it, and how many aren't even aware of this fact.


But real life ain't ideal, especially for the fairer sex in many circumstances. In a perfect Angelina world, this wouldn't happen. The sacrifices they make is up to them, who am I to judge them for it. If both parties accept the status quo, all the best to them.

You're not going to judge because you're a man and that sort of arrangement benefits you. I get it.

But i'll judge all I want and i'll encourage women to make better choices. Also, things aren't black and white but generally misyr is seen as haram because of the issues it causes in society, especially in situations where a women lives apart and isn't fully provided for. She is essentially being treated as a girlfriend/side chick.

Scholars acknowledging it and vehemently disagreeing because they actually have gheerah for Muslim women isn't because they have an idealised view of the world or because they live in 'Angelina's perfect world'.

We have rules for a reason. Both men and women have been given right in Islam for a reason. We can't be hypocrites and say 'look an non Muslims, their women are treated like side chicks' whilst our Muslim men try to find loopholes in the deen so that they can treat their vulnerable sisters in Islam like side chicks.

 

[Angelina]

easier said than done. if you have 2 wives you cant stay with both every night. an older single mom is more independent than an inan. she will accept being 2nd wife and a few nights a week and he provides for her.

Then don't marry a 2nd time then. Islam is pretty strict with time. You need to spend equal time. You cannot spend more time with one wife. That is why polygamy isn't the right of every man which Somalis falsely believe. It is the right/privileges of men that have the time and money.

 

[The alchemist]

I mean children are called precious cargo. And ex-spouses stage pickups and drop offs. You'll definitely get entangled in that process somewhere in that supply chain. And there will most certainly be a meltdown.

Off the record, that remark may have been mechanistic but the motivation behind it was compassionate. I would prefer to be a mentor or adopt a child than be a step-parent. For starters, there is some subconscious enmity toward step mothers. If you love the child as your own and invest time, energy, money and care in them it could be all ripped away if you unfortunately divorce the parent. Sadly, that amounts to divorcing the poor child as well. And that would be shattering not just to you but to the child who has become attached to you.

A friend calling through phone. Script:

Friend: Hey man, what's up?

Me: Ah, I'm doing some warehouse logistics. You know, just managing to make sure things are in order and move efficiently, handling precious cargo.

Friend: What happened to your career? This is a sudden change.

Me: Listen, man... I'm at home babysitting, alright.

Friend: ...


I'm joking at your expense. You can express yourself mechanistically if you want.

 

[anonimo]

You're not going to judge because you're a man and that sort of arrangement benefits you. I get it.

But i'll judge all I want and i'll encourage women to make better choices. Also, things aren't black and white but generally misyr is seen as haram because of the issues it causes in society, especially in situations where a women lives apart and isn't provided for. She is essentially being treated as a girlfriend/side chick. Scholars acknowledging it and vehemently disagreeing because they actually have gheerah for Muslim women isn't because they have an idealisation. We have rules for a reason. We can't be hypocrites and say 'look an non Muslims, their women are treated like side chicks' whilst our Muslim men find loopholes in the deen so they can treat their vulnerable sisters in Islam like side chicks.

Not because I am a man, but because I ain't in their shoes, I do not judge. Have I not been clear it is less ideal for the woman?

As for the second wives you are campaigning for, ever given thought as to whether they are content with such an arrangement. What's good for one goose (Angelina) is not necessarily good all for all geese. From your privileged vantage, you can cry foul but they might be perfectly content with being a second wife who gets an allowance and the weekly rumble. To each his own!

Life's a subjective bi.tch, ain't it?

 

[Angelina]

Not because I am a man, but because I ain't in their shoes I do not judge. Have I not been clear it is less ideal for the woman?

As for the second wives you are campaigning for, ever given thought as to whether they are content with such an arrangement. What's good for one goose (Angelina) is not necessarily good all for all geese. From your privileged vantage, you can cry foul but they might be perfectly content with being a second wife who gets an allowance and the weekly rumble. To each his own!

People are okay with all sorts of things that are bad for them. We can have that attitude about an array of different issues.

Bottom line is, that sort of arrangement is seen as haram by majority of scholars as they argue not just for the individual, but for society. Those marriages impact society. So instead of calling me privileged, how about you look at the big picture?

I think you'll find that it is you coming from a place of not only shortsightedness but also priviliage.