Who is a Somali?

[Abaq]

Soomaali waa kuma? Who is a Somali? This is a debate that has been ignited by the recent constitution changes and I don’t know why.

The definition of a Somali is simple. Anyone who has an abtiris that is a part of the Somali clan system is a Somali.

That is why if a Somali lady has a child with an ajnabi, that child will never be Somali. That’s also why if a Somali man has a child with an ajnabi lady, that child will always be Somali even if they have blonde hair and blue eyes. This is a fact no matter what those that have been indoctrinated by European philosophies say.

A Somali is someone with a Somali lineage and a Muslim (I would also add sunni shafici but that is just my bias).

The constitutional review body has a survey for the public on this very issue and other important matters. Have your say here: https://icric.gov.so/tallo-dhiibo/?...5lPpHfvP2Vi18H0HM8_KliN-F8tNFR4UPx3nDbx2dA_Qo

 

[Mudug_gyal]

A Somali is someone with a Somali lineage

Where do darood fit into this since we descend from supposedly arab darood ismacil?

 

[Abaq]

Where do darood fit into this since we descend from supposedly arab darood ismacil?

Regardless of the supposed origins of the clan progenitors, Daarood and the other clans were all viewed as part and parcel of the Somali clan structure by our ancestors and that is all that matters.

 

[Mudug_gyal]

Regardless of the supposed origins of the clan progenitors, Daarood and the other clans were all viewed as part and parcel of the Somali clan structure by our ancestors and that is all that matters.

But you just said that someones Somali on the basis of father’s lineage. We cannot discount and ignore the fact that darood have an arab baby daddy, we r only somali on maternal side. You can only be somali if your father and forefather is somali. Ours is allegedly not. @Al Adnani you had some foresight

 

[Abaq]

But you just said that someones Somali on the basis of father’s lineage. We cannot ignore the fact that darood have an arab baby daddy. @Al Adnani you had some foresight

I said anyone with a Somali lineage. Every Somali considers Darod as part of the Somali clan structure. The ancient origins don’t matter.

What matters is the status quo that existed prior to colonisation and how we viewed ourselves and our world when we were last truly independent, physically and psychologically. Since then, Somalis have become enslaved by foreign ideologies. We are not starting at a tabula rasa when it comes to these fundamental questions such as ‘who are we’, ‘who is a Somali’, ‘how should we shape our state’ etc. Our ancestors had answers to all of this. But as part of a century of brainwashing and onslaught by Ideological warfare, we’ve been led to believe that we have no answers and that we must look to the West for all answers. Which is simply not true.

That is why the people that have to even ask themselves who and what is a Somali are truly lost. They have completely abandoned their Somali psyche and fallen victim to the ideological warfare

 

[محمود فارح]

But you just said that someones Somali on the basis of father’s lineage. We cannot discount and ignore the fact that darood have an arab baby daddy, we r only somali on maternal side. @Al Adnani you had some foresight

If we say that our lineage is correct, we are Somali in culture and language, then we can be Somali, and this does not negate our nationality at all

 

[Abaq]

If we say that our lineage is correct, we are Somali in culture and language, then we can be Somali, and this does not negate our nationality at all

Adnani Arabs aren’t actually Arabs if we return to their ancient origins but good luck telling any Arab that Adnanis are not Arabs. Point being, these things were settled a millennia ago

 

[Mudug_gyal]

I said anyone with a Somali lineage.

Paternal lineage is very strict thats why im being critical. If I have kids with an ajnabi man, my kids wouldnt be Somali so why should I make an exception for darood who had kids with a dir woman a millennia ago? We need consistency. Using your logic then darood shouldnt be part of Somali clan structure

The ancient origins don’t matter.

It does tho. I personally dont hold the belief darood came from arabia so I dont have the cognitive dissonance. If origins dont matter then my ajnabi kids should be considered as somali as ones sired by somali men.

 

[Mudug_gyal]

Adnani Arabs aren’t actually Arabs if we return to their ancient origins but good luck telling any Arab that Adnanis are not Arabs. Point being, these things were settled a millennia ago

Using Somali logic, adnanis are not arabs. But i do consider them arab since theyve been arabised

 

[Mudug_gyal]

If we say that our lineage is correct, we are Somali in culture and language, then we can be Somali, and this does not negate our nationality at all

If my half arab kids are Somali in culture and language, will they be considered somali? If not then we should rid ourselves of the sheer hypocrisy.

 

[Wonyluvr]

Half Somalis are not Somali

 

[Abaq]

Paternal lineage is very strict thats why im being critical. If I have kids with an ajnabi man, my kids wouldnt be Somali so why should I make an exception for darood who had kids with a dir woman a millennia ago? We need consistency. Using your logic then darood shouldnt be part of Somali clan structure

It does tho. I personally dont hold the belief darood came from arabia so I dont have the cognitive dissonance. If origins dont matter then my ajnabi kids should be considered as somali as ones sired by somali men.

Strictly speaking, the Darod Arab myth is false genetically speaking.

The point I am making, is that our ancestors held the belief is that the Somali identity is patrilineal. You inherit it from your father. This is point one. The second point is that a Somali is anyone who is a member of the Somali clan structure (regardless of the ancient origins of that said clan). If that clan was considered a Somali clan and you have a lineage to it, then you are a Somali. This is how things were prior to colonisation and the Ideological Warfare that came with. If you are not happy with it, that’s up to you

 

[Mudug_gyal]

Strictly speaking, the Darod Arab myth is false genetically speaking.

The point I am making, is that our ancestors held the belief is that the Somali identity is patrilineal. You inherit it from your father. This is point one. The second point is that a Somali is anyone who is a member of the Somali clan structure (regardless of the ancient origins of that said clan). If that clan was considered a Somali clan and you have a lineage to it, then you are a Somali. This is how things were prior to colonisation and the Ideological Warfare that came with. If you are not happy with it, that’s up to you

Im just addressing the double standards. Glad we came to an agreement. Somali identity is inherited from the father. Which is why im hyperfocusing and criticising the notion that awoowe darood was allegedly arab.

 

[Killamenace78]

Where do darood fit into this since we descend from supposedly arab darood ismacil?

No way you believe in that

 

[Keep it a boqol]

Half Somalis are not Somali

naag nool

 

[JamalFarah]

Regarding the point about Daroods and their perceived Arab heritage, it's important to note that Daroods aren't the only ones who claim such heritage. Many Somalis, not just Daroods, associate themselves with the Banu Hashim lineage. However, perpetuating this Arab myth can provide fuel to our opponents' arguments, leading them to claim that we are foreigners or invaders in our own land. This undermines our indigenous identity.

Historically, Somalis are an ancient ethnic group that has undergone rebranding over time. Something significant may have occurred during our Islamization, many oral traditions and histories of our pre-Islamic past were condemned and forgotten, similar to what happened with the Arabs and their pre-islamic history.

The Islamization process provided an opportunity for clans to partly rewrite their genealogy or stories to enhance their prestige compared to others. When the saying "Sab iyo Samaale" was more widespread, Daroods were squarely considered part of the "Samaale''. I'd hypothesize that during the days when the pastrolist Somalis were less in number, the same way Hawadle and Gaaljecel are considered hawiye, Daroods were considered "Samaales'' because of the historical marriage, proximity and cultural identicality. This identity divorced itselfs once they spread out more and more and becoming more and more plentiful from the meaning of Samaale, becoming Somali our ethnic identity.

This process might have happenend dozens of time, genetic evidence do show at least at the oldest level of our Y-heritage some confederation between major sub-clans.

This phenomenon is evident in recent times as well. During the 1980s and 1990s, the majority of Isaaqs considered themselves a subclan of Dir and shared paternal lineage with Hawiye and other Samaales. However, when they seceded, stories were rewritten to emphasize their uniqueness and distance themselves from other Somalis.

Ultimately, what defines someone as Somali is a combination of various attributes, with a crucial one being whether others consider them Somali. While social attitudes may evolve over time, currently, there is a consensus that those with Somali heritage only from their mothers' side may not be considered Somali.

 

[Mudug_gyal]

Regarding the point about Daroods and their perceived Arab heritage, it's important to note that Daroods aren't the only ones who claim such heritage. Many Somalis, not just Daroods, associate themselves with the Banu Hashim lineage. However, perpetuating this Arab myth can provide fuel to our opponents' arguments, leading them to claim that we are foreigners or invaders in our own land. This undermines our indigenous identity.

Historically, Somalis are an ancient ethnic group that has undergone rebranding over time. Something significant may have occurred during our Islamization, many oral traditions and histories of our pre-Islamic past were condemned and forgotten, similar to what happened with the Arabs and their pre-islamic history.

The Islamization process provided an opportunity for clans to partly rewrite their genealogy or stories to enhance their prestige compared to others. When the saying "Sab iyo Samaale" was more widespread, Daroods were squarely considered part of the "Samaale''. I'd hypothesize that during the days when the pastrolist Somalis were less in number, the same way Hawadle and Gaaljecel are considered hawiye, Daroods were considered "Samaales'' because of the historical marriage, proximity and cultural identicality. This identity divorced itselfs once they spread out more and more and becoming more and more plentiful from the meaning of Samaale, becoming Somali our ethnic identity.

This process might have happenend dozens of time, genetic evidence do show at least at the oldest level of our Y-heritage some confederation between major sub-clans.

This phenomenon is evident in recent times as well. During the 1980s and 1990s, the majority of Isaaqs considered themselves a subclan of Dir and shared paternal lineage with Hawiye and other Samaales. However, when they seceded, stories were rewritten to emphasize their uniqueness and distance themselves from other Somalis.

Ultimately, what defines someone as Somali is a combination of various attributes, with a crucial one being whether others consider them Somali. While social attitudes may evolve over time, currently, there is a consensus that those with Somali heritage only from their mothers' side may not be considered Somali.

Thats very insightful but only descendants of samaale should be considered somali. Awoowe darood was carab then so are we thats how it is in islam. I would argue that children of somali women and foreign men should be given the same grace as tribes that claim arab had. Both are foreigners

 

[Wonyluvr]

Thats very insightful but only descendants of samaale should be considered somali. Awoowe darood was carab so are we. I would argue that children of somali women and foreign men should be given the same grace as tribes that claim arab had. Both are foreigners

nobody is really a foreigner tbh

 

[Mudug_gyal]

nobody is really a foreigner tbh

If darood ancestor is arab, then im al bint al carabiya ululululeee

 

[Wonyluvr]

If darood ancestor is arab, then im al bint al carabiya ululululeee

Period embrace your awoowe Abdirahman bin Isma'il al-Jabarti’s carab origins