15000 years ago
What race were the moors?
- Thread starter 911
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Do you suppose that no intermixing took place in Morocco, that certain historical events had no genetic impact on Modern day Morocco?
Apollo
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Most of the admixture the Maghreb acquired in the past thousand years was mostly additional Sub-Saharan African (Trans-Saharan slave trade), not really European.
By the way, they have the genomes of the Guanches, a group of extinct Maghrebis who migrated to the Canary Islands a few thousand years ago and they are nearly identical to most Berbers. So you can't really argue that there was much recent European admixture in Maghrebis.
Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans
The origins and genetic affinity of the aboriginal inhabitants of the Canary Islands, commonly known as Guanches, are poorly understood. Though radioc…
Guanches - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Apollo
VIP
''While many Moorish individuals analysed in the study seem to have been a 50:50 mix of North African and Iberian ancestry, North African ancestry in the peninsula today averages just 5%.''
www.bbc.com
Even worse, the Moors who ruled over Spain may have been half Spaniard half Maghrebi.
science.sciencemag.org
Ancient migration transformed Spain's DNA
A migration from Central Europe transformed the genetic make-up of Iberia, a new DNA study reveals.
www.bbc.com
Even worse, the Moors who ruled over Spain may have been half Spaniard half Maghrebi.
Science | AAAS
science.sciencemag.org
Umm-al-Dhegdheeriyaa
Run and I’ll catch you and eat you alive
Looking at the time frame you guys are talking about(renaissance period/Medieval) they were definitely Meghrebine Berber(Arabs with a tan) remember that most people in England were pale, so anyone who had a bit of colour would be weird to these cadaans. The term itself was used in a derogatory way to Muslims, and the black ones were either slaves or workers
Umm-al-Dhegdheeriyaa
Run and I’ll catch you and eat you alive
They actually did, they saw Africans as savages
Seeing people as savages doesn't mean they saw them as inherently inferior due to their skin-tone or genetics. I'm not denying that they were racist, but it isn't the same type of racism blacks were subjected to later on.
White people using pseudo science to reinforce black inferiority developed in the 1700s.
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Moors during the Islamic age were Arabs, Berbers and Blacks. Many Moors were Black and it's evident they were part of the Moorish forces. To downplay Black involvement is hilarious. And to say most of them were slaves is a lie too. Many were freed men and Muslim and join the ranks of the Muslim army. Many Native Berbers were enslaved by Arabs too. Even Tariq ibn Ziyad was slave of Arab governor Musa ibn Nusayr and the nobleman granted him his freedom. Abdelrahman the caliph and many more had Berber concubine mother's.
Apollo
VIP
The Maghreb doesn't have any genuine Arabs, just culturally Arabized Berbers with a tiny smidgen of actual Arabian ancestry.
This isn't true. Medieval Arab travelers who went deep into Sub-Saharan Africa didn't write positively of Sub-Saharan Africans. There a tons of quotes from them that would be considered racist today.
And without the Trans-Saharan slave trade, the Trans-Atlantic slave trade would have never happened. The former facilitated the latter.
There are still many genuine Arabs in the Maghrib and the dominant cultural identity is being Arab. Majority might be Arabized, but that is of no importance to how the people identify.
A Maghrebi won't say: I'm an Arabized Berber. The ordinary person will just identify as Arab.
There is enough scholarly work on this.
Also many Arab historians wrote great things about Black leaders even more so than White people did. Many great Black leaders are from the Islamic age like Mansa Munsa etc.
Without Arabs the indigenous North Africans would not even have conquered Spain.
Apollo
VIP
Nevertheless, the majority of Arab Maghrebi's ancestry is Berber, even when they only identify as Arab.
That was not my point. She claimed that Europeans were the first to look down on Black Africans, that is simply not true, many Medieval Arab travelers wrote horrendous things about Blacks. You probably have seen what they have written before. Many here seem to have a grudge against Europeans and overlook that Arabs did similar things, if not worse.
PS. This wasn't about what they said about Kings etc, but commoners and villagers.
Well, I agree on this. It was largely based on culture from Arabia that gave the impetus and zeal.
most of the moors were berber or arab, some of them may have been black but not the majority. Europeans used to exagerate their darkness and sometimes depicted them as black african and sometime as light skinned. By the 16th century even somalis were described as moors by portoguese sources. In the Phillippines the muslim asian Moro people derive their name from "moor" because the spaniards called them moors. The term moor became another term for muslim regardless of skin color
Ibn khaldun wrote about Mansa Musa in neutral or even positive ways while he was very racist towards other non muslim blacks. This shows that arabs distinguished muslim blacks from pagan blacks, in addition to that christian ethiopians are generaly seen as neutral or positive in arabic sources.
Ibn khaldun even said that arab bedouin were savages.
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