We have been lied to

[Ahmed Ato]

Under the premise that SARS-COV-2 exposure is an inevitability where everyone will be exposed and anyone irrespective of vaccine status can spread it. Then I do not see a reason for mandating anything. The classification of the unvaccinated is a bastardized one as well because it can come to include the partially vaccinated which a person with two doses can become if they do not take their mandated third or fourth (whenever that may occur). I only see two important categories those with immunity and those without. The spectrum of immunity should include those that have naturally acquired immunity not merely a time limited 4-6 month (potential reduction in disease severity) that does not stop transmission.

I don't know if things would've panned out the way you are suggesting if went with your plan since we don't have a parallel universe where that happened and we were able to compare the two results.

I don't know if you know but most countries returned to normal now. so, my question to you is do you think this would've happened without the vaccine mandate?.
Most countries reopened their respective country because of reduced covid cases and deaths thanks to the vaccine. if the vaccine hadn't been mandated, a lot of people wouldn't have taken it and it would've been harder to achieve less covid cases and deaths to justify reopening the country.

 

[Hargeysa]

I only see two important categories those with immunity and those without. The spectrum of immunity should include those that have naturally acquired immunity not merely a time limited 4-6 month (potential reduction in disease severity) that does not stop transmission.

Hey, so you're right in there's two categories - those with immunity, and those without.

Here's where the issues lie:
- The degree of immunity from getting covid (natural immunity) is highly variable, and is linked to the viral load you were exposed to. So if you weren't severely ill with covid, your natural protection likely won't be strong. Generally, two doses offer a more robust immune response than a natural infection.
- People who are double vaccinated can pass on the virus to others, but you reduce your chances of doing so compared to those who've had a natural infection only.

This is why it's still worth taking a vaccine (not to mention the fact it reduces your chances of dying from covid massively, as well as long-covid).

ofc, you're right that the vaccine is zero risk, nothing is. However, the benefit to risk ratio is huge. They've undoubtedly saved hundreds of thousands of lives already. Also, 3 billion people have been double vaccinated, so if there was a significant safety issue, it would've become clear by now. It's incredibly tough to get a drug/ vaccine to market - the data has to be crystal clear, and medical regulators are very thorough.

We already take a flu vaccine every year, so I don't really see that as a problem. I know there are trials ongoing for a longer lasting vaccine - hopefully something comes of it.

I do agree that people should have a choice - as long as they don't work in a healthcare setting or in care.

 

[Sophisticate]

I do not espouse a paternalistic worldview where I feel the need to encroach my medical or therapeutic choices on to others. In this way, my views are Libertarian. If Person A wants to be inoculated or take a drug because that is what they think is right and conform exclusively to an allopathic healing modality, allow them.

Suppose Person B has a worldview where the biological terrain is important and contributes to the severity of diseases and their progression. Then allow them to work on maintaining their health the way they see fit to reduce SARS-COV-2 severity.

This individual might not conform to the traditional biomedical model of pills for ills but a complementary system that accounts for various lifestyle factors shaping and contributing to disease burden. In this manner, health maintenance is privileged over disease management, with the former wishing to address their health maladies through prevention. Hence, prioritizing clean water, clean indoor air, dietary quality, i.e., organic food, moderate physical activity, quality relationships and minimizing aggregate, chemical exposures from toxic commercial and chemicals, and strategically supplementing with nutraceuticals.

Both Person A and Person B should be allowed to maintain their health the way they see fit without the state dictating to them. I do not believe in mandates nor state overreach. It sets a dangerous precedent to absolve citizens from even more freedoms. We need not look to far into the future.

Faucci is already proposing getting rid of the freedoms of the double dose if they do not get a third. Let me link you with an article to show I'm not bluffing.

https://nypost.com/2021/11/17/fauci-says-covid-booster-might-be-new-standard-for-fully-vaccinated/

That is what I believe and I deem it a very reasonable stance.

Salaam.