Was Siyaad Barre a snake?

[Periplus]

Somalia had the ideal conditions to invade Ethiopia and still everything that could go wrong went wrong.

I can’t still believe Cuba joined the fight. Unbelievable. I can’t fathom any reasons why Castro decided to defend Ethiopia. Seems straight out of fiction.

Cuba joined because Castro could not stand Barre.

This what Castro thought about Barre, in his own words.

Chauvinism is the most important factor in him. Socialism is just an outer shell that is supposed to make him more attractive. He has received weapons from the socialist countries and his socialist doctrine is [only] for the masses. The Party is there only to support his personal power.

Siad Barre really thinks that he is at the summit of wisdom. Until now everything has gone smoothly for him. The Italians and the British made him a general. The revolution was accomplished in a minute, with hardly a shot fired. He put on a socialist face and got economic aid and weapons from the Soviet Union. His country is important strategically, and he likes prestige. Barre is very convinced of himself. His socialist rhetoric is unbearable. He is the greatest socialist; he cannot say ten words without mentioning socialism.

 

[reer]

If I am correct, this paper was written during the election violence in 1969.

The CIA were right. In that excerpt, they said "from recent days" meaning they were predicting the near future not the distant future. They were not predicting a civil war, they predicting political unrest, which happened.

After the election violence, a president was killed and a military coup occurred.

yes there was unrest but political instability could have easily formed remember it was only 9 years after independence and we werent aligned. it was the cold war and somalia was sleepwalking into a military coup.

 

[reer]

Cuba joined because Castro could not stand Barre.

This what Castro thought about Barre, in his own words.

castro also went on a pro ethiopia pr campaign that they could build a proper marxist leninist communist state with the derg. after sending 30k troops in the angolan civil war which was his pet project he wanted more prestige for cuba.

 

[Periplus]

You are a liar it was MSB who hosted the first ever OAU meeting and chaired Africa for the first time this is an undeniable fact!


2. You are a liar Siyaad Barre assisted Robert Mugambe and the ANU in Rhodeisha and supported the ANC heavily in the fight against white apartheid. He was also best friends with African hero Idi Amin

1. Do not embarrass yourself, my friend. Google exists.

2. Again, Somalia supported anti-apartheid movements but he also dealt with the apartheid government. The US Library of Congress dossier states:

This diplomatic gain was offset, however, by the "scandal" of South African foreign minister Roelof "Pik" Botha's secret visit to Mogadishu the same month, in which South Africa promised arms to Somalia in return for landing rights for South African Airways.

The Associated Press, probably most reliable news source ever, states that Barre visited De Klerk.

The South African president met with President Siad Barre of Somalia, government-controlled television reported without fanfare. A visit by an African head of state to South Africa would have been treated as a major event a few months ago.

 

[Periplus]

yes there was unrest but political instability could have easily formed remember it was only 9 years after independence and we werent aligned. it was the cold war and somalia was sleepwalking into a military coup.

Somalia was more Western aligned than Soviet pre-Kacaan. Firstly, we were a democracy which is anathema to Soviet ideology. Secondly, Somalia relied on American support for the civil service and intelligence training. Thirdly, Somalia was a capitalist society until 1969.

Jaalle siad didnt eliminate the private economy which they didnt like. he was nominally socialist.

He nationalised everything. All the major businesses pre-1969 were nationalised under Barre. He only started to allow private business later but a major downfall of the Kacaan was the nationalisation of major industries even in the 1980's.

 

[reer]

Somalia was more Western aligned than Soviet pre-Kacaan. Firstly, we were a democracy which is anathema to Soviet ideology. Secondly, Somalia relied on American support for the civil service and intelligence training. Thirdly, Somalia was a capitalist society until 1969.



He nationalised everything. All the major businesses pre-1969 were nationalised under Barre. He only started to allow private business later but a major downfall of the Kacaan was the nationalisation of major industries even in the 1980's.

pre kacaan there was ok relations with both communist regimes and the west. eg. west germany used to give aid. somalis would study/train in both russia and china. you are forgetting the 64 border war was started by selassie as a response to the somali soviet agreement/pact. but we were capitalist.
nationalized means of production with regulations and price controls but private business was generally allowed. tusaale ahaan the hotels of kismayo werent seized as "bourgeoisie oppression". indians used to have dahab shops. but waamo hotel was owned by wasaaradda dalxiiska. anyway somalis are too individualistic for the abolishment of the private economy to achieve full blown socialism.

 

[Periplus]

pre kacaan there was ok relations with both communist regimes and the west. eg. west germany used to give aid. somalis would study/train in both russia and china. you are forgetting the 64 border war was started by selassie as a response to the somali soviet agreement/pact. but we were capitalist.
nationalized means of production with regulations and price controls but private business was generally allowed. tusaale ahaan the hotels of kismayo werent seized as "bourgeoisie oppression". indians used to have dahab shops. but waamo hotel was owned by wasaaradda dalxiiska. anyway somalis are too individualistic for the abolishment of the private economy to achieve full blown socialism.

Pre-Kacaan, Somalia was friends with both but closer to the US. The USSR did not like our democracy and the US involvement in it. The US also did not like our friendship with the USSR but was more calm as we were a capitalist democracy.

Most communist countries allowed hotels and small businesses to operate, with the exception of the USSR maybe. Their enemy was the big business owners, the real bourgeoisie.

However, during the Kacaan, a major problem for Somalia was that Barre had a stranglehold on industry. Most manufacturing, financial services, telecommunications, media and production companies were owned by the Kacaan. Those that were privately owed did so with Barre's blessing.

 

[Macalin dheerow]

Under the SYL period tribalism was a problem. However, in my opinion, all the power-brokers of each tribe were in government or military and were somewhat satisfied.

Isaaq had Egal, MJ had Sharmarke/Abdirasaq Hussein, Hawiye had Aden Adde/Abdullahi Isse, RX had Zoppe and MX had Barre in the military.

It was a democratic 4.5. There was complaints but none of these men specifically wanted to get more power for their tribe. Barre wanted power for himself not because MX were left out.

Discontent becomes a war when it receives backing from a high level individual. Under Barre, Egal's support for SNM and Aideed's support for USC turned discontent into a popular struggle. During the SYL, none of these men felt that it was worth it.

You are right on the fact that people in charge could work together across clan lines however at the end of the 1960s they where little to no cooperation. I wager, the political animosity could become more militant if there is a reason, a trigger.

The civil war happened because of political animosity. Clans felt that other clans had power over them. This was the trigger.

After the 1960s, if siad Barre did not have power, Somalia would have been a federal country instead of a republic. We would be peaceful but have the inability to counter any threats, like a drought because of poor economy and tribal division.

 

[Periplus]

You are right on the fact that people in charge could work together across clan lines however at the end of the 1960s they where little to no cooperation. I wager, the political animosity could become more militant if there is a reason, a trigger.

Maybe.

At the same time, Aden Adde and Abdirasak Haji Hussein were a good leadership team and were Hawiye and MJ respectively. They also tried to have the first qabiil-blind cabinet in 1964, as they refused to follow "qabiil balance". This got voted down in parliament as it was seen as disrespectful.

Abdirasak fired his own brother from the civil service as he felt he was unqualified to represent the Somali people. That is equitable leadership.

 

[Gadhwayne]

AUN he was too soft in my opinion if he was ruthless he would have survived but had no major power backing him. Russia saved Assad and now Syria is 70% under govt control. Somalis need to be disciplined with a hard hand he amended Caydiid"s prisom sentence and gave him a post in India only for him to come back and wreak havoc. MSB wasnt as meciless and his kindness and old age got to him to regret those decisions.

You make it easy for guys like @Maxamed bin Harti and @puntitequeen to suspect that Afweyne crimes were largely supported by Sade.

What happened to @Dalalos_ibn_Adali and the NGM you are supposed to say we Sade had nothing to do with the crimes of his regime and we actually were also harmed by some of his policies

Afweyne'es was hardheaded trying to cling to power as he saw rebels liberating Muqdisho. He managed to destroy the institutions of state when he invoked Daaroodism just as he was losing formal control to USC, after already already informally lost the streets to nonpolitical streetgangs roaming Muqdisho in the last few years of Afweyne regime

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Guys stop making it hard for someone like me to say MX cannot be blamed for Afweyne crimes if you make excuses for his crimes its easier to associate with what he did did wrong

 

[Periplus]

After Somalia stabilises, reconciliation happens and the Somaliland issue is solved (either ictiraaf or an agreement), historians will do their due diligence on the Kacaan and Barre.

How did a man who was not even from Italian Somaliland become a police officer who staunchly defended colonisation?

How did this same man recover from the stain of being involved in the (at that point in time) nation's most controversial murder (Kamaluddin) to becoming commander of the armed forces?

How did he manoeuvre from seemingly being an outsider to the coup to its figurehead?

 

[reer]

After Somalia stabilises, reconciliation happens and the Somaliland issue is solved (either ictiraaf or an agreement), historians will do their due diligence on the Kacaan and Barre.

How did a man who was not even from Italian Somaliland become a police officer who staunchly defended colonisation?

How did this same man recover from the stain of being involved in the (at that point in time) nation's most controversial murder (Kamaluddin) to becoming commander of the armed forces?

How did he manoeuvre from seemingly being an outsider to the coup to its figurehead?

siad barres family and sub sub clan were dervishes i think he was orphaned due to those wars. hes the same sub sub clan as me.

 

[Periplus]

siad barres family and sub sub clan were dervishes i think he was orphaned due to those wars. hes the same sub sub clan as me.

Interesting.

He did lose his parents at a young age, so it does check out.

 

[Periplus]

Barre had the audacity to tell the Italian president who decided surprisingly to apologise for colonisation that he was grateful.

Worse part is Pertini was an anti-facist partisan in WWII, Barre insulted him by praising Mussolini's war efforts.

Towards Italy they maintained a very deferential attitude for a long time. I remember a singular episode during Siad Barre's visit to Rome. In the toast, at breakfast in the Quirinale tower, (President) Pertini had the strange idea of apologizing to the Somalis for what the Italians had done. The host replied that they had nothing but gratitude towards Italy; and that - Pertini clouded over abruptly - in 1935 it was the Ethiopians and not the Fascists who provoked the war.

Source: 30 Days, a former Italian magazine owned by Catholics

Link: http://www.30giorni.it/articoli_id_2668_l1.htm

 

[Kurobecky]

Very heated discussion impending. I think he was.

Prior to his coup, Siyaad Barre supported a group called the Somali Conference, an Italian-financed group that attempted to extend Italy's trusteeship to thirty years.

As many of you may know, an Egyptian ambassador named Kamaluddin was very instrumental in Somalia's independence as the UN's point man in Somalia during the 1950's. Kamal was very sympathetic towards the SYL and directed Egypt to support the party as well as providing positive assessments of the SYL to the UN Security Council.

However, Kamal is assassinated in Mogadishu under mysterious circumstances. Many considered independence in jeopardy and two men were considered to be at the heart of this betrayal: Siyaad Barre and Zoppe, both influential pro-Italians.

Here is a french source mentioning Barre's participation in pro-Italian activities, actively hindering independence. The first line essentially says Barre was barely a nationalist by any means.


View attachment 190809


The following excerpts mention Barre's involvement in Kamal's assassination.


View attachment 190810View attachment 190811


These excerpts assert that Barre and Zoppo, the latter of whom was a well known pro-colonialist involved in numerous murky aspects of the trusteeship, were good friends. When the assassination occurred, Barre deliberately impeded the investigation and pitted Nassarist Egypt against the SYL. The excerpt goes onto say that Barre's reputation was tarnished for a longtime because of his actions.

Ask your grandparents about the murder of Kamaluddin and the controversy around it. It is considered one of the biggest mysteries in recent Somali history.

Whoa, how did he feel about Italy favoring Ethiopia over Somalia? How could Barre be pro-Italy when they abolished slavery. The Italians were on some SJW virtue signaling bs. The only caadans to respect are the English. It’s crazy for any Somali to simp and/or cape for the Meg Griffin of Europe. Gross And he helped killed a North African. Bro, dude had some self hatred issues. I don’t use the term loosely.

 

[Kurobecky]

Barre had the audacity to tell the Italian president who decided surprisingly to apologise for colonisation that he was grateful.

Worse part is Pertini was an anti-facist partisan in WWII, Barre insulted him by praising Mussolini's war efforts.



Source: 30 Days, a former Italian magazine owned by Catholics

Link: http://www.30giorni.it/articoli_id_2668_l1.htm

He praised Mussolini?!?! Hitler literally treated him like Meg from Family Guy. The Italians also ruined Catholicism with their paganism. Ugh

 

[Kurobecky]

At least, he didn’t fall for Castro’s propaganda.
The only ajnabi Barre should praise is Mao and China. China firmly supports the political independence of Somalia, respects Somalia national sovereignty and territorial integrity, does not interfere in the internal affairs of Somalia, adheres to the principle of "Somali ownership, Somali leadership", and promotes an early solving of the Somali issues.

 

[Gantaal97]

History shall remember him kindly as a great Somali nationalists who made his enemies quake in fear. Remember ironically it was MSB who built the precessor to AU the OAU and sending troops to train and liberate themselves trom Apartheid and colonialism. He was a pioneer and now his own instrument is being used to save Somalia (AMISOM).

30 years of Hawiye/Kablalax lead to violence and mayham. President Farmaajo needs 8 more years to stabilise these two and it may take a while but soon Somalia shall regain her pride, slowly but surely!

OAU was founded in 1963 when adeerka was wearing this long ass weird shorts

 

[Gantaal97]

never knew that. also as i heard the isaaqs started the whole thing.

Do you have anything against us ??

 

[Periplus]

Whoa, how did he feel about Italy favoring Ethiopia over Somalia?

Where did you hear this? I mean it is possible as they are both Christian but I never heard about this.

How could Barre be pro-Italy when they abolished slavery. The Italians were on some SJW virtue signaling bs.

I beg your pardon?

The only ajnabi Barre should praise is Mao and China.

You mean the Mao that 45 million people in 4 years?