Trouble in tigrayland

Yahya

2020 GRANDMASTER
VIP
Everrybody wants to pull article 39 now. Abiy got his hands full this year.

The current situation, more than ever before, requires us, all Tegarus, to fully employ our logical approach to positively, genuinely, painstakingly, and farsightedly identify and review all the pros and cons of the situation at stake, taking into consideration the enduring benefits of Tigrai and its people. If we leave our personal motives behind and instead, stay focused on building the culture of logical reasoning and apply a methodological approach in finding a solution to our problems, then I have no doubt as to whether we would reach at or make the right decision, united as Tegarus.

Let me now move on to my reflections on Girmay’s article, “Appeal to Counter Separation of Tigray.” First, I would like to challenge Girmay because his article, in my opinion, fails to provide convincing and elaborate explanations to dismiss the idea of those who are questioning the current status quo-Tigrai a state within Ethiopia-and contemplating to make Tigrai a new country. Furthermore, it lacks a balanced analysis of the subject matter to clearly show the “Cause and Effect” relationship i.e. it rather chiefly focused on providing comments on the effect, “Separation of Tigrai'' without realizing and detailing the realities that serve as a cause for such an idea to surface. In addition, the article blames one side of the equation.

I concur with Germay's theoretical statement that “…. Tigrai needs many things from Ethiopia and Ethiopia needs many things from Tigrai….” However, Girmay’s article hasn’t provided a clear elaboration to help me convince myself whether others (non-Tegaru) have the same understanding to assert that “Tigrai needs many things from Ethiopia and Ethiopia needs many things from Tigrai….” I may be wrong, but I doubt! Because the hate against Tigrai/Tegarus continues to grow uncontrolled and unregulated; the act of discrimination and blackmailing of Tegarus is persistently lingering; and I know it is politically incorrect to say but with due respect, the fact on the ground doesn’t seem to depict the reality and if at all, Tegarus are really considered as citizens within the present-day Ethiopia.

Again, Girmay is politically correct when he stated, “Tigray needs so many things from other parts of Ethiopia! And other parts need Tigray. All Ethiopians and all Ethiopian regions need each other.” However, Girmay’s article seems to throw all the blame to Tegaru activists and scholars as if it is their sole responsibility to advocate the view that Tigrai needs many things from other parts of Ethiopia and vice versa. In my thinking, it does it make sense to continue clapping with a single hand endlessly and forever. Don’t you (Girmay) think that this is also a responsibility of all Ethiopians-politicians, activities, scholars-to have such a common understanding on assertion that, “Tigray needs so many things from other parts of Ethiopia! And other parts need Tigray. All Ethiopians and all Ethiopian regions need each other.”

In theory you are right but in practice this is not what is occurring and what is being advocated. Let’s be honest and practical! Instead, what is heavily and continuously being advocated, propagated, and spewed out by the other end is,

“Tigrai is Poor, it cannot even support itself let alone make contribution to others; to them, Tigrai is a parasite to Ethiopia, living at the expense of others … and on and on.”

So, do you (Girmay) think it is fair to blame the effect i.e. start an open discussion regarding the future fate of Tigrai including the option to make it an independent nation, if it is a clear beneficial option? Should we continue narrating a history as a reason to justify why Tigrai should linger in such a vicious cycle of political lies, conspiracies, and discriminatory propaganda? Sorry for being ignorant on the importance and relevance of history but taking the existing and current facts on the ground into consideration, I found historical narrations to be irrelevant to justify whether Tigrai should remain in its status quo. And you offer a choice: (i) to live in a country of a complicated political mayhem, being subjugated and subjected to psychological harassment just for the sake of history or (ii) to live under poverty, without doubt, my preference would be the latter because I know that it is possible to change poverty to prosperity by working hard and with great deal of determination and dedication.

Girmay’s article continues to oppose the idea or the question of Tigrai separation from Ethiopia, without providing a logical reasoning to challenge the question and justify why Tegarus, irrespective of their number (few, a few, some, many or majority), should not bring the issue to the table for brainstorming and as an option for discussion. As I said earlier and I will say it again, everyone is entitled to their opinion including those who are working, promoting and selling the idea of separating Tigrai from Ethiopia. It may be politically correct for Girmay to say, “…Such a promotion is against the interest of the people of Tigray and so I call on all Tegarus to stand against such inattentive publicity.” However, I found this statement to be a gross generalization and lacking supporting facts. For Girmay to reach this generalization, he should have presented data to justify and qualify his statement. Unless otherwise, one has an intention to ignore the idea or prefer the idea not to be talked at all or circulate around, the current situation doesn’t justify Girmay’s gross statement.

From what I hear and observe in various forums and medias including networked talks and discussions going on among friends, the social media, and particularly, the cheers and applauds displayed at public parades and festivities, the quest for independent Tigrai is not only becoming a very popular move but also is capturing and invading the mind of Tegarus at a speed that no one has never guessed before.

Importantly and to my recollection, I don’t think this kind of idea has been born out of the blue. My take is that it is a cumulative manifestation of events and observations; and it is the outcome of the successive scrutinizing and documentations of the political situations and phenomenon that have occurred in Ethiopia within the past 27 years. I candidly ask Girmay to do a genuine retrospective analysis of the past, not for an academic consumption but for the purpose of deeply learning about what has been said, narrated, reported, claimed, alleged, played or aired on mass medias about TPLF and the Tigrai people, right from the beginning of 1991, when EPRDF took power and stretched out to our present time. This will help you get a clear picture of the situation, learn about the “cause and effect” relationship and in the end, you will be able to know and say with confident whether or not the argument to separate Tigray makes sense or is relevant at all or if it is destined to only some activists/scholars as you claimed. Furthermore, such analysis will also help you justify your claim, “whatever their motive might be.”

Otherwise, I can assure you that the question is not to be underestimated as if it is unpopular, irrational and illegitimate. As a matter reality, it is becoming a hot spot and evolving itself as a common agenda, circulating among friends within the Diaspora community where I have firsthand information. If you do not mind, let me please share with you the anecdotal data I knew. There are about 50 friends with whom I informally share ideas and discuss on this matter: whether or not Tigrai should remain as part of Ethiopia or become a standalone country. Every one of us is asking why Tegarus see themselves as die hard guardians of Ethiopia even though they are being discriminated, and a genocide declared against? What is peculiar for Tegarus to be exceptionally singled out from the rest? Why is the history of Tegarus discredited and their contributions being graded to no value? Why has it become a routine political agenda to scrutinize/count/audit Tegarus belongings with special focus while no damn attention is given to other citizens’ belongings? Aren’t Tegarus Ethiopians? Why do all killings, physical and mental harassment, displacements, and damages to their properties have occurred against them irrespective of their political affiliation? The list of questions goes on and on.

To your surprise, none of us had ever entertained such questions in our entire life and until recently and in no single time has occurred to our mind to consider Tigrai as a country. Now, the situation is different. We are all inclined towards opening our eyes and minds to consider every single potential option.

To determine the proportion of the people who are in favor of the idea of separating Tigrai is yet to be affirmed by doing a research. Otherwise, the anecdotal data are not reflective of what Girmay’s article portrayed,

Finally, I would like to end by saying, let every single option be available for open discussion. Then, allow the general public to decide what is better for them by giving them the chance to vote without fear of what the outcome would be. Till then, let’s all work hard; stay united; and focus on investing our resources to make Tigrai a prosperous and a peaceful place to live in!

 

Yahya

2020 GRANDMASTER
VIP
Someone tag the analysts.

“Tigrai is Poor, it cannot even support itself let alone make contribution to others; to them, Tigrai is a parasite to Ethiopia, living at the expense of others … and on and on.”

:drakelaugh:
 
Someone tag the analysts.

“Tigrai is Poor, it cannot even support itself let alone make contribution to others; to them, Tigrai is a parasite to Ethiopia, living at the expense of others … and on and on.”

:drakelaugh:

@Django @Issa waraabe @GeeljirePoet @abdallah

Tigray can be a great and wealthy sovereign nation. I sincerely believe that. Do most Tigaru agree and how likely is it that thet they invoke article 39?

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Yahya

2020 GRANDMASTER
VIP
@Django @Issa waraabe @GeeljirePoet @abdallah

Tigray can be a great and wealthy sovereign nation. I sincerely believe that. Do most Tigaru agree and how likely is it that thet they invoke article 39?

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I don't know but they will pressure them like they did to ogaden. The sidamo region wanted the same in 2018.

Doesn't seem like a democratic nation if they deny their constitution.

 

madaxweyne

madaxweyne
VIP
Everrybody wants to pull article 39 now. Abiy got his hands full this year.

The current situation, more than ever before, requires us, all Tegarus, to fully employ our logical approach to positively, genuinely, painstakingly, and farsightedly identify and review all the pros and cons of the situation at stake, taking into consideration the enduring benefits of Tigrai and its people. If we leave our personal motives behind and instead, stay focused on building the culture of logical reasoning and apply a methodological approach in finding a solution to our problems, then I have no doubt as to whether we would reach at or make the right decision, united as Tegarus.

Let me now move on to my reflections on Girmay’s article, “Appeal to Counter Separation of Tigray.” First, I would like to challenge Girmay because his article, in my opinion, fails to provide convincing and elaborate explanations to dismiss the idea of those who are questioning the current status quo-Tigrai a state within Ethiopia-and contemplating to make Tigrai a new country. Furthermore, it lacks a balanced analysis of the subject matter to clearly show the “Cause and Effect” relationship i.e. it rather chiefly focused on providing comments on the effect, “Separation of Tigrai'' without realizing and detailing the realities that serve as a cause for such an idea to surface. In addition, the article blames one side of the equation.

I concur with Germay's theoretical statement that “…. Tigrai needs many things from Ethiopia and Ethiopia needs many things from Tigrai….” However, Girmay’s article hasn’t provided a clear elaboration to help me convince myself whether others (non-Tegaru) have the same understanding to assert that “Tigrai needs many things from Ethiopia and Ethiopia needs many things from Tigrai….” I may be wrong, but I doubt! Because the hate against Tigrai/Tegarus continues to grow uncontrolled and unregulated; the act of discrimination and blackmailing of Tegarus is persistently lingering; and I know it is politically incorrect to say but with due respect, the fact on the ground doesn’t seem to depict the reality and if at all, Tegarus are really considered as citizens within the present-day Ethiopia.

Again, Girmay is politically correct when he stated, “Tigray needs so many things from other parts of Ethiopia! And other parts need Tigray. All Ethiopians and all Ethiopian regions need each other.” However, Girmay’s article seems to throw all the blame to Tegaru activists and scholars as if it is their sole responsibility to advocate the view that Tigrai needs many things from other parts of Ethiopia and vice versa. In my thinking, it does it make sense to continue clapping with a single hand endlessly and forever. Don’t you (Girmay) think that this is also a responsibility of all Ethiopians-politicians, activities, scholars-to have such a common understanding on assertion that, “Tigray needs so many things from other parts of Ethiopia! And other parts need Tigray. All Ethiopians and all Ethiopian regions need each other.”

In theory you are right but in practice this is not what is occurring and what is being advocated. Let’s be honest and practical! Instead, what is heavily and continuously being advocated, propagated, and spewed out by the other end is,

“Tigrai is Poor, it cannot even support itself let alone make contribution to others; to them, Tigrai is a parasite to Ethiopia, living at the expense of others … and on and on.”

So, do you (Girmay) think it is fair to blame the effect i.e. start an open discussion regarding the future fate of Tigrai including the option to make it an independent nation, if it is a clear beneficial option? Should we continue narrating a history as a reason to justify why Tigrai should linger in such a vicious cycle of political lies, conspiracies, and discriminatory propaganda? Sorry for being ignorant on the importance and relevance of history but taking the existing and current facts on the ground into consideration, I found historical narrations to be irrelevant to justify whether Tigrai should remain in its status quo. And you offer a choice: (i) to live in a country of a complicated political mayhem, being subjugated and subjected to psychological harassment just for the sake of history or (ii) to live under poverty, without doubt, my preference would be the latter because I know that it is possible to change poverty to prosperity by working hard and with great deal of determination and dedication.

Girmay’s article continues to oppose the idea or the question of Tigrai separation from Ethiopia, without providing a logical reasoning to challenge the question and justify why Tegarus, irrespective of their number (few, a few, some, many or majority), should not bring the issue to the table for brainstorming and as an option for discussion. As I said earlier and I will say it again, everyone is entitled to their opinion including those who are working, promoting and selling the idea of separating Tigrai from Ethiopia. It may be politically correct for Girmay to say, “…Such a promotion is against the interest of the people of Tigray and so I call on all Tegarus to stand against such inattentive publicity.” However, I found this statement to be a gross generalization and lacking supporting facts. For Girmay to reach this generalization, he should have presented data to justify and qualify his statement. Unless otherwise, one has an intention to ignore the idea or prefer the idea not to be talked at all or circulate around, the current situation doesn’t justify Girmay’s gross statement.

From what I hear and observe in various forums and medias including networked talks and discussions going on among friends, the social media, and particularly, the cheers and applauds displayed at public parades and festivities, the quest for independent Tigrai is not only becoming a very popular move but also is capturing and invading the mind of Tegarus at a speed that no one has never guessed before.

Importantly and to my recollection, I don’t think this kind of idea has been born out of the blue. My take is that it is a cumulative manifestation of events and observations; and it is the outcome of the successive scrutinizing and documentations of the political situations and phenomenon that have occurred in Ethiopia within the past 27 years. I candidly ask Girmay to do a genuine retrospective analysis of the past, not for an academic consumption but for the purpose of deeply learning about what has been said, narrated, reported, claimed, alleged, played or aired on mass medias about TPLF and the Tigrai people, right from the beginning of 1991, when EPRDF took power and stretched out to our present time. This will help you get a clear picture of the situation, learn about the “cause and effect” relationship and in the end, you will be able to know and say with confident whether or not the argument to separate Tigray makes sense or is relevant at all or if it is destined to only some activists/scholars as you claimed. Furthermore, such analysis will also help you justify your claim, “whatever their motive might be.”

Otherwise, I can assure you that the question is not to be underestimated as if it is unpopular, irrational and illegitimate. As a matter reality, it is becoming a hot spot and evolving itself as a common agenda, circulating among friends within the Diaspora community where I have firsthand information. If you do not mind, let me please share with you the anecdotal data I knew. There are about 50 friends with whom I informally share ideas and discuss on this matter: whether or not Tigrai should remain as part of Ethiopia or become a standalone country. Every one of us is asking why Tegarus see themselves as die hard guardians of Ethiopia even though they are being discriminated, and a genocide declared against? What is peculiar for Tegarus to be exceptionally singled out from the rest? Why is the history of Tegarus discredited and their contributions being graded to no value? Why has it become a routine political agenda to scrutinize/count/audit Tegarus belongings with special focus while no damn attention is given to other citizens’ belongings? Aren’t Tegarus Ethiopians? Why do all killings, physical and mental harassment, displacements, and damages to their properties have occurred against them irrespective of their political affiliation? The list of questions goes on and on.

To your surprise, none of us had ever entertained such questions in our entire life and until recently and in no single time has occurred to our mind to consider Tigrai as a country. Now, the situation is different. We are all inclined towards opening our eyes and minds to consider every single potential option.

To determine the proportion of the people who are in favor of the idea of separating Tigrai is yet to be affirmed by doing a research. Otherwise, the anecdotal data are not reflective of what Girmay’s article portrayed,

Finally, I would like to end by saying, let every single option be available for open discussion. Then, allow the general public to decide what is better for them by giving them the chance to vote without fear of what the outcome would be. Till then, let’s all work hard; stay united; and focus on investing our resources to make Tigrai a prosperous and a peaceful place to live in!


looks interesting if only the tplf doesn't come back to power i think they might wait for the results of the Ethiopian election i heard its postponed due to the corona virus, either way, its happening this year anyhow if tegarus invoke article 39 then most likely Oromia and Somali region joins then you only have the amhara left with original Ethiopia
 

kickz

Engineer of Qandala
SIYAASI
VIP
XcigX8L.gif


Makes it easier for us to snap back Ogaden from them if Ethiopia splits into a million pieces.
 

Yahya

2020 GRANDMASTER
VIP
XcigX8L.gif


Makes it easier for us to snap back Ogaden from them if Ethiopia splits into a million pieces.
:manny:
Inshallah. They were always colonial projects and anti pan africanism for stealing land for the colonisers. I hope they get what they deserve and end up like yugoslavia if they don't give their people the freedom they deserve and respect the constitution.
 
At this stage in Ethiopia Tigray are a necessary evil.I hope they clash with Abye so that Somalis get a breathing space.
Of Late Abye Policy is to grab somali lands for his peasant oromos.


Tigray cannot self sustain itself it built itself for 25 years by embezzling the coffers of the Ethiopian nation.
My only wish is I hope Tigray and Oromos have divergent interests.
 

Yahya

2020 GRANDMASTER
VIP
At this stage in Ethiopia Tigray are a necessary evil.I hope they clash with Abye so that Somalis get a breathing space.
Of Late Abye Policy is to grab somali lands for his peasant oromos.


Tigray cannot self sustain itself it built itself for 25 years by embezzling the coffers of the Ethiopian nation.
My only wish is I hope Tigray and Oromos have divergent interests.
Anything that gets us galbeed. NFD was always the impossible task, luckily the somali birth rate there will force the government in kenya to either get outnumbered or let them secede.


Either way, even with a semi competent administration in the next ten years we can corner kenya and use our resources to become wealthy beyond belief. Our problems are ourselves and our mindset. Ethiopia's problems surfacing could help us if we are prepared to take advantage of a yugoslavia scenario.

Either way it all depends on luck and the right circumstances. We cannot be foolish to believe it will be easy. Nor can we conquer ethiopia by force. We must learn from the past and infiltrate them silently and use our initiative. We are not the old ignorant generation they dealt with last time and we should be able to twist their hand this time, using politics and by destabilising them until we becoem a headache for them. Anything else and they will run to their european masters for aid.
 

Removed

Gif-King
VIP
Tigray lost the presidency and are unlikely to just be happy in their new minority status they are armed and will use any avenue to empower themselves. Tigray have no seats in the current ruling party that is unacceptable moving forward.

Amhara want no Ethnic states
Oromos want Addis and “lost lands”
Tigray want more control
Somalis want secession from Baabile to Moyaale

None of these are possible without force their is no finnesing states nurtured to be drunk off of power to become idealist and give up their post. Their is no making Addis, the capital occupied by majority Amhara, join Oromia. Their is no Tigray majority and their is no secession. A fork was reached when the TPLF lost its grip, Abiy has to finnese and show the world he is worthy of that nobel prize, what a time to be alive.:silanyosmile:
 

Yahya

2020 GRANDMASTER
VIP
Tigray lost the presidency and are unlikely to just be happy in their new minority status they are armed and will use any avenue to empower themselves. Tigray have no seats in the current ruling party that is unacceptable moving forward.

Amhara want no Ethnic states
Oromos want Addis and “lost lands”
Tigray want more control
Somalis want secession from Baabile to Moyaale

None of these are possible without force their is no finnesing states nurtured to be drunk off of power to become idealist and give up their post. Their is no making Addis, the capital occupied by majority Amhara, join Oromia. Their is no Tigray majority and their is no secession. A fork was reached when the TPLF lost its grip, Abiy has to finnese and show the world he is worthy of that nobel prize, what a time to be alive.:silanyosmile:
We live in interesting times for sure. It's one thing for few rebels to demand secession, but when it's a whole region of ppl that have been made to feel inferior by ones they deemed slaves, things could indeed escalate unless either one admits inferiority and submits which i don't see happening nd if force is used then the IC can see that ethiopia is a failed project paper country that ignored and abuses the rights of other regions to peacefully secede using their constitutional right.
 

Removed

Gif-King
VIP
^ tigrays are well armed actually.

they've been funneling money towards their security since melez days.
Its difficult getting numbers on their capabilities but the Fed is far more affluent and can field more men and has better weaponry from what I know. Tigray are blocked in from hostile enemies on all sides they have good terrain but only afghans could win with those odds. Tigray are no Afghanis.

They are armed enough however that its more than enough deterrence
We live in interesting times for sure. It's one thing for few rebels to demand secession, but when it's a whole region of ppl that have been made to feel inferior by ones they deemed slaves, things could indeed escalate unless either one admits inferiority and submits which i don't see happening nd if force is used then the IC can see that ethiopia is a failed project paper country that ignored and abuses the rights of other regions to peacefully secede using their constitutional right.
Thats right if they lose a war ethnic federalism will have to be closed to avoid further violations. Every state leader has an army and has been drunk off of power they will never fold to such. Ethiopia has no stomach for a civil war they cant make it out whole but they also can’t afford atleast 2-3/4 of those demands I listed.

Will the next leader be able to consolidate power through an Iron grip and compromise with tigray whilst abusing Somalis and disregarding Amhara pipe dreams. Its a tough task that neither Abiy nor Jawar can carry out especially the latter.
 

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