The US Supreme Court Will Most Likely Overturn Abortion Rights, Draft Opinion Shows!

[Angelina]

@Basra,

Abortion was never done by the Sahaba or tabi'een. IslamQA was using the argument that the fetus doesn't have a soul until 120 days. But 6 schools of thought in Islam (Hanafi, Hanbali, Shaafi'i, Maliki, Zaydi, and Ja'afari) had never endorsed abortion whatsoever. The new claims by some circles in the Muslim world (i.e., Islamqa) is looking for isolated interpretations by taking a few hadiths and then coming to their own conclusions.

And in the case of rape, the woman can give up the child for adoption or keep the baby. But rapist must be caught and prosecuted according to Islamic rulings.

With respect to when women's health is in danger, that is a decision that is left to the medical professionals and must be considered other medical procedures, and carrying out abortion should be the last resort.

Saxib, nearly every fatwa i've seen argues a woman can upon rape and if it is a threat to a woman's life.

No one care's about your mere opinion. Show me a fatwa please. No school of thought endorses it. They merely allow it under certain circumstances and the fatwa I showed her was from a Hanafi site, not the original Islamqa.

 

[World]

They alluded to it being next in their draft opinion, I’m not joking.

94 % of Americans support interracial marriage, furthermore America will turn into a pariah state by other western countries if they ban interracial marriage. It’s simply propaganda. Show any proof that US lawmakers are in favour of banning interracial marriage. Abortion is controversial on the other hand, as only 36 % of Republicans are pro-choice.

 

[Periplus]

94 % of Americans support interracial marriage, furthermore America will turn into a pariah state by other western countries if they ban interracial marriage. It’s simply propaganda. Show any proof that US lawmakers are in favour of banning interracial marriage. Abortion is controversial on the other hand, as only 36 % of Republicans are pro-choice.

I updated my previous response to you, it’s a bit more detailed there.

If they touch interracial marriage, it will be through the guise of “states rights”. Essentially, they’ll overturn a lot of Supreme Court decisions that they felt infringed on a states legislative right. They’ll include it with gay marriage etc.

Basically, they’ll let states decide whether they want to legalise it or not. They won’t ban it.

Even if they don’t touch interracial marriage, this court decision has brought states rights back, which is essentially a segregationist policy. Many anti-CRT advocates have been trying to create hysteria over CRT to push school choice. I’ll let you google what school choice is and let you come to your own conclusion.

 

[Man with a garuun]

Saxib, nearly every fatwa i've seen argues a woman can upon rape and if it is a threat to a woman's life.

No one care's about your mere opinion. Show me a fatwa please. No school of thought endorses it. They merely allow it under certain circumstances and the fatwa I showed her was from a Hanafi site, not the original Islamqa.

Islamqa is all over the place. Show me where the established Muslim jurists such as Abu Haneefa, Mohamed Ibn Idris Shaafi'i, Ahmed Bin Hanbali, or Maliki (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) endorse it. I am waiting for that, My sister with the PHD lol.

You're typical person who base everything in religious matters on google search, and when she finds something that agrees with her preconceived notions, you run with it.

I personally don't follow anything that wasn't endorsed by majority of those 4 jurists. And let us get real here: There is no documented case of "abortion" even during your favorite 120 days that was carried out during the sahaba or thaabi'een. It is a new phenomona where some are trying to find a loophile in the faith in order to justify it. For instance, no one knows when 120 days start. The ultrasound they use to base the start of the pregnancy is just based on probability. Taking the life of an unborn baby shouldn't be based on probability. This is why banning it altogether except when the mother's life is in danger and there is no other medical procedure that can be done, makes perfect sense.

 

[Angelina]

Islamqa is all over the place. Show me where the established Muslim jurists such as Abu Haneefa, Mohamed Ibn Idris Shaafi'i, Ahmed Bin Hanbali, or Maliki (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) endorse it. I am waiting for that, My sister with the PHD lol.

You're typical person who base everything on google search, and when she finds something that agrees with her preconceived notions, you run with.

I personally don't follow anything that wasn't endorsed by majority of those 4 jurists. And let us get real here: There is no documented case of "abortion" even during your favorite 120 days that was carried out during the sahaba or thaabi'een. It is a new phenomona where some are trying to find a loophile in the faith in order to justify it. For instance, no one knows when 120 days start. The ultrasound they use to base the start of the pregnancy is just based on probability. Taking the life of an unborn baby shouldn't be based on probability. This is why banning it alltogether except when the mother's life is in danger and tbere is no other medical procedure that can be done, makes perfect sense.

The bit in bold tells me everything I need to know. You don't actually know how madhabs work do you?

Saxib.

The fatwa I used isn't the normal Islamqa. It is a different site. Did you actually open the link?

It is a strictly Hanafi site. Click on it please.

Also, again your mere opinion doesn't matter. Show me proof from actual scholars.

 

[Man with a garuun]

Saxib.

The fatwa I used isn't the normal Islamqa. It is a different site. Did you actually open the link?

It is a strictly Hanafi site. Click on it please.

Also, again your mere opinion doesn't matter. Show me proof from actual scholars.

You're proving my original point. You're using google and search as religious guidance, and that is wrong and dangerous. I've asked you show me in the original books where renowned Muslim jurists such as Ibn Haneefa, Shaafici, Maliki, and Hanbali endorse what you're claiming it. I have never heard of such claims.

And let me tell you: There is a danger if you rely on Internet sites for religious guidance. And it is incumbent upon us to follow precedence. Have you ever heard of any abortion case during the sahaba or taabi'een?

 

[Angelina]

You're proving my original point. You're using google and search as religious guidance, and that is wrong and dangerous. I've asked you show me in the original books where renowned Muslim jurists such as Ibn Haneefa, Shaafici, Maliki, and Hanbali endorse what you're claiming it. I have never heard of such claims.

And let me tell you: There is a danger if you rely on Internet sites for religious guidance. And it is incumbent upon us to follow precedence. Have you ever heard of any abortion case during the sahaba or taabi'een?

Did you actually open the link? I don't care for your waffle and did you find me proof?

What you're doing is more dangerous. We take our knowledge from scholars, not your mere opinion.

Mufti Mohammed Tosir Miah is a Hanafi scholar from Birmingham by the way.

The onus in on you to show me proof that abortion for rape is haram. Show me a fatwa please.

 

[Angelina]

@Roorigeg
You're a difficult person to debate with, as you don't even know how madhabs work and you argue for the sake of arguing.


Let me explain, with regards to the Madhabs it is not just the opinions of the founding Imaams. Madhabs are the collective works of various scholars that ascribe to that school of thought. So you can't say show me the opinion of Imam Hanifa or Imam Shafi ect. You should say, show me the opinion of that particular school of thought as you'll find a lot of the Shafi school, Hanbali ect opinion and main fiqh is also based on the opinions of their students who've studied under them. There are many famous Shafi, Hanbali, Hanifi and Maliki scholars who've all contributed to the school of thought.

 

[Man with a garuun]

The bit in bold tells me everything I need to know. You don't actually know how madhabs work do you?

Saxib.

The fatwa I used isn't the normal Islamqa. It is a different site. Did you actually open the link?

It is a strictly Hanafi site. Click on it please.

Also, again your mere opinion doesn't matter. Show me proof from actual scholars.

What do you mean "I don't know how madhab (or school of thought ) works? I follow my scholars at my local masjids. One is shaafici and the or is Hanafi, You think people learn Islamic jurisprudence through what is posted on some websites? You're really dumb and arrogant when it comes to religious matters. Stick with scapegoating men, particularly Somali men, on "women issues" and stay clear from religious matters.

On my end, we have our ulema in our local masques, and there has never been recorded "abortion" that was done during the sahaba nor the taabi'een. Besides, none of the 4 renowned Muslim jurists that I mentioned ever documented about when "abortion" is allowed and not.

 

[Angelina]

What do you mean "I don't know how madhab (or school of thought ) works? I follow my scholars at my local masjids. One is shaafici and the or is Hanafi, You think people learn Islamic jurisprudence through what is posted on some websites? You're really dumb and arrogant when it comes to religious matters. Stick with scapegoating men, particularly Somali men, on "women issues" and stay clear from religious matters.

On my end, we have our ulema in our local masques, and there has never been recorded "abortion" that was done during the sahaba nor the taabi'een. Besides, none of the 4 renowned Muslim jurists that I mentioned ever documented about when "abortion" is allowed and not.

I'm losing patience with you.

I'm smarter than you, so calm down and have a better understanding. I go to Islamic classes and study and do not post random opinions.

Those websites are run by actual scholars and Muftis. The one I posted was written by a well known Hanafi scholar in the UK Birmingham.

I've noticed that you're the arrogant one that doesn't have a clue how madhabs works and you're quick to dismiss things based on your mere opinion and not fact.

We live in the age of the internet and Alhamdulilah, many muftis write their fatwas and people ask questions through these sites.

Now, I want you to ask your local imam if an abortion is allowed when a woman is raped. Go on. You don't even know the official Hanafi or Shafi position yet you're arguing with me. That is what I see as arrogance.

 

[Man with a garuun]

@Roorigeg
You're a difficult person to debate with, as you don't even know how madhabs work and you argue for the sake of arguing.


Let me explain, with regards to the Madhabs it is not just the opinions of the founding Imaams. Madhabs are the collective works of various scholars that ascribe to that school of thought. So you can't say show me the opinion of Imam Hanifa or Imam Shafi ect. You should say, show me the opinion of that particular school of thought as you'll find a lot of the Shafi school, Hanbali ect opinion and main fiqh is also based on the opinions of their students who've studied under them.

Nope. You're just looking for excuses. Let me ask you this question: Have you sat down with a Muslim scholar in a mosque, and asked them questions about this topic? I am pretty sure you never did. Your method of finding answers to religious matters is google search, finding something that matches with your preconceived notions, and then you run with it.

My take is, for any religious question, the Internet is the last place that I look at. That is because people with agenda or some fringe groups can hide behind their views behind a website. I would rather go to an imam or an Islamic scholar in my local masjid and take my questions to him. I sat with them and listened the lectures, That is my path of religious learning.

And when it comes to madhabs, they were established by those renowned Muslim jurists. Other Muslims learn their axkaam and reasoning. What others came after them did is none of my concern, and Muslims shouldn't follow.

Lastly, twisting the faith to the whims of today's hot button issues or based on some literlists' web site is dangerous, and Muslims should stay clear from it.

 

[Angelina]

Nope. You're just looking for excuses. Let me ask you this question: Have you sat down with a Muslim scholar in a mosque, and asked them questions about this topic? I am pretty sure you never did. Your method of finding answers to religious matters is google search, finding something that matches with your preconceived notions, and then you run it.

My take is, for any religious question, the Internet is the last place that I look at. That is because people with agenda or some fringe groups can hide behind their views behind a website. I would rather go to an imam or an Islamic scholar in my local masjid and take my questions to him. I sat with them and listened the lectures, That is my path of religious learning.

And when it comes to madhabs, they were established by those renowned Muslim jurists. Other Muslims learn their axkaam and reasoning. What others came after them did is none of my concern, and Muslims shouldn't follow.

Lastly, twisting the faith to the whims of today's hot button issues or based on some literlists' web site is dangerous, and Muslims should stay clear from it.

Have you asked them as well? No.

So you're debating with me over something you have no clue about. At least I have the decency to read the views of well-known scholars and actually find out the official position of the school of thought.

You're literally debating with me based on YOUR opinion and that is insane to me.
I posted the view of Mufti Mufti Mohammed Tosir Miah who has studied the Hanafi Madhab. Do you know more than him?

 

[Man with a garuun]

I'm losing patience with you.

I'm smarter than you, so calm down and have a better understanding. I go to Islamic classes and study and do not post random opinions.

Those websites are run by actual scholars and Muftis. The one I posted was written by a well known Hanafi scholar in the UK Birmingham.

I've noticed that you're the arrogant one that doesn't have a clue how madhabs works and you're quick to dismiss things based on your mere opinion and not fact.

We live in the age of the internet and Alhamdulilah, many muftis write their fatwas and people ask questions through these sites.

Now, I want you to ask your local imam if an abortion is allowed when a woman is raped. Go on. You don't even know the official Hanafi or Shafi position yet you're arguing with me. That is what I see as arrogance.

Nope. The official position of Hanafi and Shaafici on rape is the rapist should be punished according to Islamic law. However, the child should not lose his (or her) life while in the mother's womb. Audubillah. This is the woman that calls herself smart. Why would a child lose his (or her) life irrespective of how he (or she) was conceived?

The whole reason why abortion is brought up as a result of rape is because of society's attitudes towards children who are born out of wedlock and/or financial constraints. But in Islam, sanctity of life is more important than on societal attitudes or financial constraints. Islam saved humanity when it came to the world (i.e., Arabs burying their daughters alive due to those societies' views at the time).

'The abortion that you and others advocate for irrespective of how the child is conceived is haram and has no place in Islam. If it is allowed today, it is no different than the pagan Arab tradition that used to bury girls alive before the advent of Islam. Go and learn the faith instead of wrapping your boolshit feminist agenda behind some Internet websites.

I am more than you kulahaa The same woman who bragged about going to West African parties and stated "what I liked about those parties is people don't sit down but party all night" is today arguing us about madhabs. Outraegous if you ask me.

 

[Angelina]

Nope. The official position of Hanafi and Shaafici on rape is the rapist should be punished according to Islamic law. However, the child should not lose his (or her) life while in the mother's womb. Audubillah. This the woman that calls herself smart. Why would a child lose his (or her) life irrespective of how he (or she) was conceived?

The whole reason why abortion is brought up as a result of rape is because of society's attitudes towards children who are born out of wedlock and/or financial constraints. But in Islam, sanctity of life is more important than on societal attitudes or financial constraints. Islam saved humanity when it came to the world (i.e., Arabs burying their daughters alive due to those societies at the time).

'The abortion that you and others advocate for irrespective of how the child is conceived is haram and has no place in Islam. If it is allowed today, it is no different than the pagan Arab tradition that used to bury girls alive before the advent of Islam. Go and learn the faith instead of wrapping your boolshit feminist agenda behind some Internet websites.

I am more than you kulahaa The same woman who bragged about going to West African parties and stated "what I liked about those parties is people don't sit down but party all night" is today arguing us about madhabs. Outraegous if you ask me.

Did you ask your local imam?

I don't care for you opinions. I've said this time and time again.

I've never been to a West African party. I think you've confused me with another poster.

 

[Angelina]

@Roorigeg

This is Sh. Assim Al Hakeem. Very well-known. He's come to London a few times as well. This is what he says on the matter:



Watch the video. It's very educational. But since you're incredibly arrogant. You probably think you know more than him.

 

[Man with a garuun]

Did you ask your local imam?

I saw it discussed. Sheikh Mohamed Idris was one of the sheikhs who addressed it in Atlanta, GA. Also, I remembered it discussed in questions in some of questions sisters posted to local sheikhs in my town. I didn't ask them, but I remember others asking it and the shiekhs addressing it.

I don't care for you opinions. I've said this time and time again.

I've never been to a West African party. I think you've confused me with another poster.

I don't care about yours either. I just can't stand when you arrogantly run with it as if it is the final truth. Rape can't be an excuse for taking the life of the unborn. The rapist must be punished to the full extent of the law, but the child shouldn't lose her life.

Yeah, I remember you well and what you stated.

 

[Angelina]

I saw it discussed. Sheikh Mohamed Idris was one of the sheikhs who addressed it in Atlanta, GA. Also, I remembered it discussed in questions in some of questions sisters posted to local sheikhs in my town. I didn't ask them, but I remember others asking it and the shiekhs addressing it.



I don't care about yours either. I just can't stand when you arrogantly run with it as if it is the final truth. Rape can't be an excuse for taking the life of the unborn. The rapist must be punished to the full extent of the law, but the child shouldn't lose her life.

Yeah, I remember you well and what you stated.

I rarely post my mere opinions with regards to the deen, but you do. In the age of the internet there are many well known scholars that have posted their fatwas and have spoken on Islamic channels now posted on youtube. You could have easily have found the opinion of a reliable Shafi and Hanafi scholar but you refuse to.

I literally posted the opinion of a well known Hanafi Muft yet you dismissed it and now you think people should believe that you listened to so and so Sheikh?

You're a liar. I've never stated that i've been to a West African party. You've proven that you're a hypocritical liar as you'll lie about someone if they don't agree with your opinions.

You're not an Amiin person. You might think this is the mere internet, but saying someone goes to parties, insinuating that they're committed Zina, lying about their spouse ect says a lot about your integrity. And you have none.

 

[Angelina]

@Roorigeg

This is Sh. Assim Al Hakeem. Very well-known. He's come to London a few times as well. This is what he says on the matter:



Watch the video. It's very educational. But since you're incredibly arrogant. You probably think you know more than him.

Sh. Roog

Is he mistaken? @Roorigeg?

Since you probably know better than him.

 

[Man with a garuun]

@Roorigeg

This is Sh. Assim Al Hakeem. Very well-known. He's come to London a few times as well. This is what he says on the matter:



Watch the video. It's very educational. But since you're incredibly arrogant. You probably think you know more than him.

Wallahi, I am happy and comfortable in learning the deen from Somali scholars. They're resolute and firm in their religious grounds, and never accommodate today's hot button issues in the West.

I rarely post my mere opinions with regards to the deen, but you do. In the age of the internet there are many well known scholars that have posted their fatwas and have spoken on Islamic channels now posted on youtube. You could have easily have found the opinion of a reliable Shafi and Hanafi scholar but you refuse to.

I literally posted the opinion of a well known Hanafi Muft yet you dismissed it and now you think people should believe that you listened to so and so Sheikh?

People should not believe me. I am not a religious scholar. However, I strongly advice them to follow their religious guidance in the Islamic scholars in their local masjids. Following Internet sites - where you don't know who is behind that site - is dangerous.

Going back to the original point, rape is an evil crime, and rapist must be punished to the full extent of the law. However, taking the life of the unborn child who was conceived through rape has no place in Islam. How many times that you post some Internet "shiekhs" is not going to change that fact. I challenge you to take this question to Sheikh Mustafe Ismaaciil, Sheekh Mohamed Idris, or Sheekh Umal. What you're arguing for is the unthinkable. I have never seen a Somali sheikh who endorsed abortion.

 

[Angelina]

Wallahi, I am happy and comfortable in learning the deen from Somali scholars. They're resolute and firm in their religious grounds, and never accommodate today's hot button issues in the West.



People should not believe me. I am not a religious scholar. However, I strongly advice them to follow their religious guidance in the Islamic scholars in their local masjids. Following Internet sites - where you don't know who is behind that site - is dangerous.

Going back to the original point, rape is an evil crime, and rapist must be punished to the full extent of the law. However, taking the life of the unborn child who was conceived through rape has no place in Islam. How many times that you post some Internet "shiekhs" is not going to change that fact. I challenge you to take this question to Sheikh Mustafe Ismaaciil, Sheekh Mohamed Idris, or Sheekh Umal. What you're arguing for is the unthinkable. I have never seen a Somali sheikh who endorsed abortion.

Okay, so is Sh. Assim wrong then?

Did he make it up?

Is he lying?

Why would he make up such a thing?

Btw, he comes to London and he is someone I would ask questions to.