TRIGGER WARNING The negative impacts of feminism

[Man with a garuun]

Polygamy isn't a must like Mehr is. Its optional. You can't compare key parts of the marriage contract that wouldn't be valid for something that you don't have to engage in.

And yes a man can refuse and a woman can then refuse to marry that man. Marriage at the end of the day is a contract. So no, you can't force women to live in polygamous situations.

My argument wasn't about forcing women to live in a polygamous situation. People end marriages for many reasons. So that was not my argument. My point was, in Islam polygamy is halal if the Muslim men can fulfill the conditions laid out for them. Therefore, a woman demanding that her husband can't take a future wife in the nikaax contract even if he fulfills all of those requirements, that is not enforceable. Man can tell the Shiekh not to document it. And if the woman is gonna walk out the nikaax, that is her prerogative. It is not like she was forced in the first place.

 

[Man with a garuun]

How are YOU saying there isn't a scholarly concensus when many scholars have spoken about this and even the sahabas knew about this? Even imam Malik commented on it and said it was common for the woman of Madina to do this!


This condition does not make something permissible forbidden; rather it restricts the man’s power and gives the wife the right to annul the marriage. Such conditions were made at the time of the Sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked about a man who married a woman, and she stipulated that he should not take another wife or make her move from her home, and that she could live with her mother, and he went ahead (with the marriage) on that basis. Is he obliged to adhere to that, and if he goes against these conditions, does the wife have the right to annul the marriage or not?

First, put aside Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him. He wasn't even a tabi'i.

That is because of the report narrated by [al-Bukhaari and Muslim] in al-Saheehayn, that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The conditions that are most deserving to be fulfilled are those by means of which intimacy becomes permissible for you.” And ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: “Rights are connected to conditions.” So the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) made that by which of means intimacy becomes permissible more deserving of being fulfilled than anything else.

I can understand you quoted from Islamqa. I saw it already there. In many situations that deal with the fiqh, I just wish I was debating them. They seem to rush their judgments without looking at the whole topic in its totality.

Polygamy has never been a topic that was controversial within umma throughout the 1400 years of its existence. So let us get that fact out there first. It is only nowadays that Muslim feminists who are based in the West are taking issue with it. That is the second thing that needs to be understood. And today's feminists and their "sheikhs" want to stretch some of the hadiths and use it as means to oppose Muslim men from marrying several wives as it is allowed within our faith.

Imam Shafici (ra), Hanafi (ra), Maliki (ra) and Hambali (ra) argued that a husband may have more than one wife since Islamic Law allows him to marry until four women. But, this approval is required other requirements to do justly to his wives. So the argument that you cited from Maliki has never shown that he opposed polygamy because to do that is to oppose what Allah (swt) has amde halal. What he's done like other scholars was he emphasized that Muslim men must fulfill the other part of the ayat - which makes it very clear that they must do justice to their wives. So the imam's concern was about justice, but not denying nor opposing polygamy, People need to be careful about what they're attributing to learned Islamic scholars and jurists like Imam Maliki.

There is no proof that Muslim women at the time of the Prophet (scw) or in his companions (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) were placing conditions in their marriage that their husbands can't take a second, 3rd, or 4th wife. The Muslima that was quoted didn't want her husband to remove her home and make her live with her mother. That is understandable. Remember that she wasn't denying him to the second wife; she just want to be treated decently and humanely when and if he takes a second, third, or 4th wife.

Lastly, Muslim women can focus on the justice part of men being fair to all of their wives on an equitable basis; however, to deny Muslim men from fulfilling what Allah (swt) has already made it halal. that is denying part of the deen. To my knowledge, there has never been a Muslim woman who left her husband because he took a second, 3td, or 4th wife during the Prophet (scw), his companions, or tabiciin's time. They may have left the marriage and ended up in divorce because their husbands were treating them unfairly; but Muslim women never abandoned their husbands simply because he married a second, third, or 4th wife during the Prophet (scw), companions, or taabiciins' time.

 

[Amk]

First, put aside Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him. He wasn't even a tabi'i.




I can understand you quoted from Islamqa. I saw it already there. In many situations that deal with the fiqh, I just wish I was debating them. They seem to rush their judgments without looking at the whole topic in its totality.

Polygamy has never been a topic that was controversial within umma throughout the 1400 years of its existence. So let us get that fact out there first. It is only nowadays that Muslim feminists who are based in the West are taking issue with it. That is the second thing that needs to be understood. And today's feminists and their "sheikhs" want to stretch some of the hadiths and use it as means to oppose Muslim men from marrying several wives as it is allowed within our faith.

Imam Shafici (ra), Hanafi (ra), Maliki (ra) and Hambali (ra) argued that a husband may have more than one wife since Islamic Law allows him to marry until four women. But, this approval is required other requirements to do justly to his wives. So the argument that you cited from Maliki has never shown that he opposed polygamy because to do that is to oppose what Allah (swt) has amde halal. What he's done like other scholars was he emphasized that Muslim men must fulfill the other part of the ayat - which makes it very clear that they must do justice to their wives. So the imam's concern was about justice, but not denying nor opposing polygamy, People need to be careful about what they're attributing to learned Islamic scholars and jurists like Imam Maliki.

There is no proof that Muslim women at the time of the Prophet (scw) or in his companions (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) were placing conditions in their marriage that their husbands can't take a second, 3rd, or 4th wife. The Muslima that was quoted didn't want her husband to remove her home and make her live with her mother. That is understandable. Remember that she wasn't denying him to the second wife; she just want to be treated decently and humanely when and if he takes a second, third, or 4th wife.

Lastly, Muslim women can focus on the justice part of men being fair to all of their wives on an equitable basis; however, to deny Muslim men from fulfilling what Allah (swt) has already made it halal. that is denying part of the deen. To my knowledge, there has never been a Muslim woman who left her husband because he took a second, 3td, or 4th wife during the Prophet (scw), his companions, or tabiciin's time. They may have left the marriage and ended up in divorce because their husbands were treating them unfairly; but Muslim women never abandoned their husbands simply because he married a second, third, or 4th wife during the Prophet (scw), companions, or taabiciins' time.

Give up the argument its not worth it.

 

[Man with a garuun]

Give up the argument its not worth it.

It actually does worth it. We're in an era where the influences of outside forces are brought to Muslims, and some of the hadiths are being stretched or some of the scholars' statements are being misquoted or stretched. Therefore, we (Muslims) of today have a duty to debate it in detail and make sure other Muslims are not misinformed.

 

[Amk]

It actually does worth it. We're in an era where the influences of outside forces are brought to Muslims, and some of the hadiths are being stretched or some of the scholars' statements are being misquoted or stretched. Therefore, we (Muslims) of today have a duty to debate it in detail and make sure other Muslims are not misinformed.

Yh but we r laymen. Plus muslims r too lost nowadays to care about the truth.

 

[Angelina]

First, put aside Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him. He wasn't even a tabi'i.




I can understand you quoted from Islamqa. I saw it already there. In many situations that deal with the fiqh, I just wish I was debating them. They seem to rush their judgments without looking at the whole topic in its totality.

Polygamy has never been a topic that was controversial within umma throughout the 1400 years of its existence. So let us get that fact out there first. It is only nowadays that Muslim feminists who are based in the West are taking issue with it. That is the second thing that needs to be understood. And today's feminists and their "sheikhs" want to stretch some of the hadiths and use it as means to oppose Muslim men from marrying several wives as it is allowed within our faith.

Imam Shafici (ra), Hanafi (ra), Maliki (ra) and Hambali (ra) argued that a husband may have more than one wife since Islamic Law allows him to marry until four women. But, this approval is required other requirements to do justly to his wives. So the argument that you cited from Maliki has never shown that he opposed polygamy because to do that is to oppose what Allah (swt) has amde halal. What he's done like other scholars was he emphasized that Muslim men must fulfill the other part of the ayat - which makes it very clear that they must do justice to their wives. So the imam's concern was about justice, but not denying nor opposing polygamy, People need to be careful about what they're attributing to learned Islamic scholars and jurists like Imam Maliki.

There is no proof that Muslim women at the time of the Prophet (scw) or in his companions (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) were placing conditions in their marriage that their husbands can't take a second, 3rd, or 4th wife. The Muslima that was quoted didn't want her husband to remove her home and make her live with her mother. That is understandable. Remember that she wasn't denying him to the second wife; she just want to be treated decently and humanely when and if he takes a second, third, or 4th wife.

Lastly, Muslim women can focus on the justice part of men being fair to all of their wives on an equitable basis; however, to deny Muslim men from fulfilling what Allah (swt) has already made it halal. that is denying part of the deen. To my knowledge, there has never been a Muslim woman who left her husband because he took a second, 3td, or 4th wife during the Prophet (scw), his companions, or tabiciin's time. They may have left the marriage and ended up in divorce because their husbands were treating them unfairly; but Muslim women never abandoned their husbands simply because he married a second, third, or 4th wife during the Prophet (scw), companions, or taabiciins' time.

There are actual hadiths that shows this is halal and many scholars say this is completely acceptable.

With all due respect, you're a layman. And this is a contract that Muslim women have a right to put in and women during the time of Imaam Malik did do it. He even talks about it, so what does your limited views have to do with anything?

 

[Angelina]

It actually does worth it. We're in an era where the influences of outside forces are brought to Muslims, and some of the hadiths are being stretched or some of the scholars' statements are being misquoted or stretched. Therefore, we (Muslims) of today have a duty to debate it in detail and make sure other Muslims are not misinformed.

It's not outside forces, this is something that has been known to Muslims for hundreds of years. Even medieval scholars like Imam Hanbal and Ibn Taymiyah talk about this and you want to mention 'outside' forces?

Islam, doesn't revolve around your feelings. You don't like the sound of something, yet you dispute it like you know more than actual Islamic scholars.

 

[Man with a garuun]

It's not outside forces, this is something that has been known to Muslims for hundreds of years. Even medieval scholars like Imam Hanbal and Ibn Taymiyah talk about this and you want to mention 'outside' forces?

Islam, doesn't revolve around your feelings. You don't like the sound of something, yet you dispute it like you know more than actual Islamic scholars.

Let ask you a few questions, during the Prophet (scw), companions (ra), or taabiciin (ra), find me one Muslim woman who made the condition in the nikaax that her husband can't take a second, third, or 4th wife, and then left the marriage after he did. The burden of proof is on you!

Show me proof where Imam Maliki argued in his reasoning that he advocated for Muslim men not to carry out polygamy.

Lastly, it is not my feelings, but people like you don't like polygamy even though it is allowed in Islam, and then want to stretch the faith to their whims. That is dangerous.

 

[Man with a garuun]

There are actual hadiths that shows this is halal and many scholars say this is completely acceptable.

With all due respect, you're a layman. And this is a contract that Muslim women have a right to put in and women during the time of Imaam Malik did do it. He even talks about it, so what does your limited views have to do with anything?

You're laywoman as well. You're acting like an Islamic "scholar" when you're taking an issue with verse in the Qura'n. Every time feminist has issue with it. So you aint fooling a guy like me who understands your agenda.

Again abusing Imam Malik's reasoning vis dangerous and does a disservice to the magnificent work that he had done rfor Islam. His reasoning about polygamy was about Muslim men to do justice about their wives. Howeve, he never discouraged nor expressed his opposition to polygamy as itis ordained in the Qur'and sunnah. Now, go ahead and prove me wrong.

 

[Angelina]

Let ask you a few questions, during the Prophet (scw), companions (ra), or taabiciin (ra), find me one Muslim woman who made the condition in the nikaax that her husband can't take a second, third, or 4th wife, and then left the marriage after he did. The burden of proof is on you!

Show me proof where Imam Maliki argued in his reasoning that he advocated for Muslim men not to carry out polygamy.

Lastly, it is not my feelings, but people like you don't like polygamy even though it is allowed in Islam, and then want to stretch the faith to whims. That is dangerous.

Firstly, a man is free to not sign a no polygamy clause and refuse to marry the said woman.

The clause is something that was known in Islam and even Islamic scholars such as Imam Hanbali talk about it say it is a legimate clause.

If you think you know more than actual Islamic scholars like Imam Hanbali, Ibn Taymiya and Sh. Uthaymeen then good for you, but expect people to take you seriously when actual people of knowledge say otherwise.

This isn't a debate between us as i'm a laymen who takes their deen from the people of knowledge and they say yes, a woman can and they use actual hadiths from the Prophet s.a.w.

You can deny hadith and you can deny scholars. Good luck.

 

[Angelina]

You're laywoman as well. You're acting like an Islamic "scholar" when you're taking an issue with verse in the Qura'n. Every time feminist has issue with it. So you aint fooling a guy like me who understands your agenda.

Again abusing Imam Malik's reasoning vis dangerous and does a disservice to the magnificent work that he had done rfor Islam. His reasoning about polygamy was about Muslim men to do justice about their wives. Howeve, he never discouraged nor expressed his opposition to polygamy as itis ordained in the Qur'and sunnah. Now, go ahead and prove me wrong.

I'm actually qouting islamic fatwas. Even qouted Ibn Taymiya, yet you dismissed it and then proceeded to write your own fatwa.

My point is that it is a legitimate view and women who follow certain madhabs have a right to add it into their marriage contract.

 

[Angelina]

You're laywoman as well. You're acting like an Islamic "scholar" when you're taking an issue with verse in the Qura'n. Every time feminist has issue with it. So you aint fooling a guy like me who understands your agenda.

Again abusing Imam Malik's reasoning vis dangerous and does a disservice to the magnificent work that he had done rfor Islam. His reasoning about polygamy was about Muslim men to do justice about their wives. Howeve, he never discouraged nor expressed his opposition to polygamy as itis ordained in the Qur'and sunnah. Now, go ahead and prove me wrong.

Abusing? This is the actual view of many scholars! Are you mad.

So because YOU personally disagree with some scholars that means we can't listen to them? So we should listen to you a random of sspot? Get out of here.

 

[En_Sabah Nur]

How did my anti feminist topic devolve into a polygamy fatwa war

 

[Man with a garuun]

Firstly, a man is free to not sign a no polygamy clause and refuse to marry the said woman.

The clause is something that was known in Islam and even Islamic scholars such as Imam Hanbali talk about it say it is a legimate clause.

If you think you know more than actual Islamic scholars like Imam Hanbali, Ibn Taymiya and Sh. Uthaymeen then good for you, but expect people to take you seriously when actual people of knowledge say otherwise.

This isn't a debate between us as i'm a laymen who takes their deen from the people of knowledge and they say yes, a woman can and they use actual hadiths from the Prophet s.a.w.

You can deny hadith and you can deny scholars. Good luck.

You're just beating the bushes. The hadiths and statements from scholars were all about the treatment of those Muslim men with respect to their wives. However, learned Islamic scholars never advocated against polygamy. That is a false attribution.

 

[Amk]

You're just beating the bushes. The hadiths and statements from scholars were all about the treatment of those Muslim men with respect to their wives. However, learned Islamic scholars never advocated against polygamy. That is a false attribution.

Bruv just stop ur wasting ur time

 

[Man with a garuun]

Abusing? This is the actual view of many scholars! Are you mad.

So because YOU personally disagree with some scholars that means we can't listen to them? So we should listen to you a random of sspot? Get out of here.

No, I was challenging your views and you hid behind me being a "layman".

 

[Man with a garuun]

Bruv just stop ur wasting ur time

Bro. I understand the agenda of people like @Angelina. I try to poke holes into the arguments of people like her who have issues with a verse in the Holy Quran. Not sure why a Muslima would take issue what Allah (swt) has already made halal. And I am not sure why they would go to certain extents in order to misinform Muslims.

 

[Angelina]

You're just beating the bushes. The hadiths and statements from scholars were all about the treatment of those Muslim men with respect to their wives. However, learned Islamic scholars never advocated against polygamy. That is a false attribution.

You're actually lying now.

The whole fatwa was titled this:

If she stipulated that he should not take another wife, does he have to adhere to that?​

Praise be to Allah.

Firstly:

If the wife stipulates that her husband should not take another wife, this is a valid condition and he must adhere to it; if he does take another wife, she has the right to annul the marriage contract.

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/30861/what-are-the-situations-in-which-a-promise-may-be-broken

You either didn't read the fatwa or you are lying. This is embarrassing. The fatwa as it is clearly titled is about the polygamy clause.

 

[Angelina]

Bro. I understand the agenda of people like @Angelina. I try to poke holes into the arguments of people like her who have issues with a verse in the Holy Quran. Not sure why a Muslima would take issue what Allah (swt) has already made halal. And I am not sure why they would go to certain extents in order to misinform Muslims.

Read the above point. You're actually embarrassing yourself now.

Is Islamqa misinforming Muslims? If so please email them.

 

[Angelina]

Bruv just stop ur wasting ur time

Wasting his time? You know damn well that In islam such a contract is valid, yet you're out here trying to demonise me? That is what I mean when I say you have an agenda.