The diversity of Xamaar

[HabarSteven12]

Ibn Battuta is a well known traveler and recorder of places he visited. He’s a lot more well trusted than your manuscripts. If what was written in your manuscripts were indeed factual, it would also be confirmed by outsider Arab traders who would have recognized their Arab brethrens and Persians who are a well known ethnic group, yet Ibn Battuta was confronted with men who didn’t speak Arabic as a first language who were also identical to the people he saw in Northern Somalia.

That is one of the reasons why i can’t take you and @HabarSteven12 seriously.

The first tribes of Mogadishu were the Banu Qahtaan. Somalis were not urban people until later in history. Somalis were not even allowed inside Mogadishu after nightfall. Heavy restrictions were placed on nomadic movements in the town of Mogadishu. You disregarded all the manuscripts that literally prove the first tribes of Mogadishu were the Banu Qahtaan.

There is archeological evidence of grave sites and how they had names and clans engraved on them that were foreign and Somali. There are numerous manuscripts detailing the strong Arab presence on the Benadir coast. You were previously shown a manuscript from Banadiri Warrior demonstrating that the Banu Qahtaan were the first tribes of Mogadishu. The Banadiri people were able to preserve all their manuscripts despite encountering numerous wars and mass migrations into their lands.

 

[Angelina]

The first contemporary mention of the word Mogadishu was by Yaqut in 1228. He says they are Muslims, distinguished from the nomadic Barbar in the country round about, and termed foreigners; they are not black in color. That passage clearly shows the Arab presence in Mogadishu.

You are misrepresenting what Ibn Battuta said about the people of Mogadishu. Ibn Battuta never explicitly stated the word Somali when describing the inhabitants of Mogadishu. You have reached a premature conclusion based on the misunderstanding of the words Barbara and Maqdishi. The term barbara itself is ambiguous and inconclusive. We don't know for certain who exactly it refers to all the time. The word Barbara is also used to describe a geographical region as well.

I never said Ibn Battuta said they were Somali. If you read what I wrote properly, that would be obvious. My point is Ibn Battuta never said they were Arabs and even mentioned that Arabic wasn’t their first language. Ibn Battuta was a well travelled man who was very familiar with this fellow Arabs and was familiar with well known groups like the Persians, yet he called them a different name and mentioned they spoke a tongue he didn’t know of. Arabs are well known to speak and take pride in their Arabic tongue especially if they’re the majority in an area or if they conquer a place, yet the people he met were clearly speaking a local tongue.

We might not know for certain that he was talking about Somalis, but what is certain he wasn’t talking about Arabs and Persians.

Read the passage below. "When the power of these people became enfeebled, the Barabar (Arabians of the neighboring country) who had come to live among them, (rose and) overpowered them, driving them out."

Can you at least post the link?!

 

[HabarSteven12]

Lmao I knew you’d try that shit this 1848 French translation of Abu Al-Fida quoting Ibn Sa’id writes that it means capital of Hawya.
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Ibn Sa’id uses Qa’idah as capital just a few paragraphs earlier in this work when he says Berbera is the capital of the Berbers. Are you know trying to say Berbera is the mountain of the Berbers
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If Ibn Said was referring to Hawiye, can you demonstrate the name of their subclan and the name of the neighborhood in which they resided? This isn't rocket science, and you guys keep running away from this question. My clan actually claims to be indigenous to Merca, and my Ayeeyo Allahu Yarham died in Merca last year. My clan's indigeneity claim to Merca is false. The Arabic word هاوية, or haawiyah, was mistranslated and was previously debunked.

 

[Step a side]

If Ibn Said was referring to Hawiye, can you demonstrate the name of their subclan and the name of the neighborhood in which they resided? This isn't rocket science, and you guys keep running away from this question. My clan actually claims to be indigenous to Merca, and my Ayeeyo Allahu Yarham died in Merca last year. My clan's indigeneity claim to Merca is false. The Arabic word هاوية, or haawiyah, was mistranslated and was previously debunked.

5 Arab cartographers century after century mentioned Marka as caasimada Hawiye starting from the 11th century onwards

 

[awsaleban667]

If Ibn Said was referring to Hawiye, can you demonstrate the name of their subclan and the name of the neighborhood in which they resided? This isn't rocket science, and you guys keep running away from this question. My clan actually claims to be indigenous to Merca, and my Ayeeyo Allahu Yarham died in Merca last year. My clan's indigeneity claim to Merca is false. The Arabic word هاوية, or haawiyah, was mistranslated and was previously debunked.

My apologies sister, I was speaking out of turn, it’s obvious that Merca was inhabitants by Bantu-Ethio Semitic-Arabo-Persian Pygmies just like every where else that Somalis currently inhabit. As a member of Banu Samaale I would like to personally apologize Bantu-Ethio Semitic-Arabo-Persian Pygmy genocide.

 

[techsamatar]

The first contemporary mention of the word Mogadishu was by Yaqut in 1228. He says they are Muslims, distinguished from the nomadic Barbar in the country round about, and termed foreigners; they are not black in color. That passage clearly shows the Arab presence in Mogadishu.

You are misrepresenting what Ibn Battuta said about the people of Mogadishu. Ibn Battuta never explicitly stated the word Somali when describing the inhabitants of Mogadishu. You have reached a premature conclusion based on the misunderstanding of the words Barbara and Maqdishi. The term barbara itself is ambiguous and inconclusive. We don't know for certain who exactly it refers to all the time. The word Barbara is also used to describe a geographical region as well.

Read the passage below. "When the power of these people became enfeebled, the Barabar (Arabians of the neighboring country) who had come to live among them, (rose and) overpowered them, driving them out."

not black in colour = Arab/semitic bro just through away classical Hadiths and narrations of original Arabs, another reason I don’t take you seriously- if you was truly versed in this any student of Historical/Racial Islamic knowledge would know no way on earth they where Arabs by any chance but Barawes don’t speak Arabic as first language nor do they have description of companions and early Arabs hence it’s impossible for them to be Arabs that left to settle in horn before Islam or even abit after.

Somehow a guy comes to Horn of Africa which today is largest inhabitant by single ethnic group(Somalis) but somehow we have low iq larper saying this traveller did not come across or describe the native inhabitants and Barbara doesn’t mean them but instead Persian/indians who barely today even make up 0.5% of population your logic is entertaining wallahi.

the Germans where call Goth tribes during Roman era so a traveller in region of Germany who went their somehow during Roman times and documents it but we will say he didn’t come across Germans even tho they are native inhabitants and largest in population but instead a minority immigrants.

 

[ibrahym]

Why would the oldest quarter in Mogadishu be named Xamar Jajab and not the Arabic or Farsi equivalent for ‘Broken’ if the city didn’t have a Somali foundation to begin with? Why would there be multiple ancient mosques with the prefix ‘Aw’ in Mogadishu and Merka like the 13th century Aw Muqtaar Mosque or the Aw Sheikh Omar Mosque instead of Arabic and Persian honorifics? (Nisbahs of commissioned architects doesn’t count, or we could call the Taj Mahal a Persian mausoleum by that logic)

Why was Somalia’s coastline known as Bilad al-Barbar or Barr as-Sumal and not Bilad al-Arab or Bilad Faris if these were indeed Persian and Arab settlements? Why couldn’t medieval individuals like Ibn Battuta, that actually visited those cities in their Golden Age, point out his fellow Arab and Persians, when he had done so multiple times when writing about cities in the Middle-East?

In their books, when the city's oldest neighborhood was established, they called it (Xamar Weyne). Xamar is an Arabic word and Wayne is a local word. hmmmmmm, it seems familiar.

author points out that two languages differ from each other, here he talks about the other neighborhood, Shangani, and says that their language is a mixture of Arabic and the Xamar Weyne language.

 

[techsamatar]

I never said Ibn Battuta said they were Somali. If you read what I wrote properly, that would be obvious. My point is Ibn Battuta never said they were Arabs and even mentioned that Arabic wasn’t their first language. Ibn Battuta was a well travelled man who was very familiar with this fellow Arabs and was familiar with well known groups like the Persians, yet he called them a different name and mentioned they spoke a tongue he didn’t know of. Arabs are well known to speak and take pride in their Arabic tongue especially if they’re the majority in an area or if they conquer a place, yet the people he met were clearly speaking a local tongue.

We might not know for certain that he was talking about Somalis, but what is certain he wasn’t talking about Arabs and Persians.

Can you at least post the link?!

Sister it’s because ibn battuta didn’t come across Arabs nor Arabic speakers but gibberish Mutts, 4000 Arabs conquered Egypt and the Egyptians outnumbered population but today Egyptian language is a variants of Arabic that is how much influence the Arabs where everywhere they went. But this guy claims all this but somehow the traveller did not recognise his own nor did he even understand what they spoke and didn’t even class them as Arabs.

so tell us how come the Arabs didn’t preserve their tradition and language when they settled in Mogadishu like they did to Egypt and entire of North Africa ?

 

[Three Moons]

Who said the name Xamar Jajab was given when it was solely Arabs and persians there? No evidence states that the name was used since centuries ago.

If the name of the oldest and ruined quarter is called by a Somali name, and no alternative, and if the succeeding quarter is known by another Somali name ‘Weyne’ and no alternative then its Somali foundations are quite obvious.

Furthermore there weren't any reer samaale's there unless you want us to believe that somehow there were Samaale lineages that inhabited modern day xamar jajab and became extinct.

Lineages are meaningless in this discussion, as Somalis genetically, and linguistically predate their Islamic centric clan system by a thousand years at the minimum if we look at their TMRCA and proposed language split from other Cushitic groups. No need to clutch at that strawman argument.

The earliest samaale's were the silcis and they moved into the coast well after Xamar Jajab was abandoned. Those Masaajid don't have the word "Aw" in the inscriptions that mention the masjid name, There's no evidence that says it was always referred to as Aw Mukhtar meanwhile the masjid adjacent to it is known as Shaykh Cumar

You want us to believe the oldest quarter was given a Somali name, and the Arabic / Persian equivalent was lost? You want us to believe the succeeding quarter was given again a Somali name, but the Arabic and Persian equivalent was lost? You want us to believe these old mosques were given Somali prefixes like ‘Aw’ but their Arabic and Persian honorifics were somehow lost?

Why would the locals use Somali words like Adayga or Mataanaha for their historic mosques if the locals haven’t always been Somali? The argument that you are trying to push is that a genocide level extinction was inflicted upon the ‘Arabs and Persians’ by the ancestors of the Somali people in the years preceding Ibn Battuta’s arrival to the city, which is laughable.

Who said Arabs or Persians inhabited entire coast of the horn, secondly we don't need confirmation from ibn battuta or anyone else when the information in our manuscripts are sufficient for us

It doesn’t matter what you ‘need’ or ‘want’ to accept personally, this is solely a case of providing academic proof in the form of archaeology, primary sources, genetics and linguistics. All of which contradict your view points.