The diversity of Xamaar

[niggaibnh]

How can they not know? Somalis are obsessed with lineage? I can’t imagine someone from a major tribe not knowing what they are and joining a small group of assimilated immigrants.

Your right but places like barawa is different.

You got certain sub tribes in barawa claim they’re Arab when they’re south Asian/central Asian in reality . While others are Arabs,Bantu and Somali. They’ve formed their own community to the point some don’t know what they’re originally so they got assimilated by the other sub qabils. Random haiwye went there and married an Arab/bantu/asian or possibly a half breeders and left his children there. Hence why it’s better to study there genes (everyone sub tribes in barawa) and estimate how many comes from arab, Somali and Asian

 

[Angelina]

Your right but places like barawa is different.

You got certain sub tribes in barawa claim they’re Arab when they’re south Asian/central Asian in reality . While others are Arabs,Bantu and Somali. They’ve formed their own community to the point some don’t know what they’re originally so they got assimilated by the other sub qabils. Random haiwye went there and married an Arab/bantu/asian or possibly a half breeders and left his children there. Hence why it’s better to study there genes (everyone sub tribes in barawa) and estimate how many comes from arab, Somali and Asian

In Somali culture, you’re what your dad is, hence a lot of Cadcads tend to have Somali DNA since they’ve married ethnic Somali women but their offsprings are not part of the ethnic Somali qabil. Anyone that has proper Xamari family knows that many cadcads have ethnic Somali grandmothers and or great grandmothers.

On the other hand, when an ethnic Somali man married a Gibil cad woman, their children are part of the mainstream ethnic Somali tribe. In all honesty, in history Somali men marrying their women wasn’t that common simply because they had their own women and didn’t need to marry out and their women clearly weren’t numerous at that point. When they did marry their women after their women came to Somalia, they’d be fully absorbed by their husbands people and their kids would be seen as ethnic Somalis belonging to a major tribe.

It makes complete sense that cadcads will have Somali blood since in the beginning, it was clearly Asiatic men in trade coming to Somali shores. Obviously, they’d have wanted wives and the only women available in the beginning were clearly ethnic Somali women from tribes who lived in the area. As time went by clearly a lot of Asiatic people and their families started to join and that’s how their community was formed.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Not some of them are actually hawiye but they don’t know themselves

That makes no sense mate, which families are you talking about?

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

How can they not know? Somalis are obsessed with lineage? I can’t imagine someone from a major tribe not knowing what they are and joining a small group of assimilated immigrants.

No such thing as small group of assimilated immigrants, in fact those hawiyes are immigrants from the interior

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Your right but places like barawa is different.

You got certain sub tribes in barawa claim they’re Arab when they’re south Asian/central Asian in reality . While others are Arabs,Bantu and Somali. They’ve formed their own community to the point some don’t know what they’re originally so they got assimilated by the other sub qabils. Random haiwye went there and married an Arab/bantu/asian or possibly a half breeders and left his children there. Hence why it’s better to study there genes (everyone sub tribes in barawa) and estimate how many comes from arab, Somali and Asian

No there aren't any sub tribes that are south Asian and you can't name any . The hawiyes in tunni are known and they know themselves

Here's an example of a tunni dacfarad reer bakoole man , reer bakoole are of wacdaan origin and he counts 19 names to Heejiyow .

Barawa is well known for recording everything in manuscripts, from marriages to slave purchases to lineages

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

In Somali culture, you’re what your dad is, hence a lot of Cadcads tend to have Somali DNA since they’ve married ethnic Somali women but their offsprings are not part of the ethnic Somali qabil. Anyone that has proper Xamari family knows that many cadcads have ethnic Somali grandmothers and or great grandmothers.

On the other hand, when an ethnic Somali man married a Gibil cad woman, their children are part of the mainstream ethnic Somali tribe. In all honesty, in history Somali men marrying their women wasn’t that common simply because they had their own women and didn’t need to marry out and their women clearly weren’t numerous at that point. When they did marry their women after their women came to Somalia, they’d be fully absorbed by their husbands people and their kids would be seen as ethnic Somalis belonging to a major tribe.

It makes complete sense that cadcads will have Somali blood since in the beginning, it was clearly Asiatic men in trade coming to Somali shores. Obviously, they’d have wanted wives and the only women available in the beginning were clearly ethnic Somali women from tribes who lived in the area. As time went by clearly a lot of Asiatic people and their families started to join and that’s how their community was formed.

There weren't any Reer Samaale's that preceded native Gibil cads in the coast & you can't name any reer samaale group that preceded gibil cads in xamar or marka. Usually Arabs or Persians married from other older Arab or Persian tribes in the region. Also historically Reer Samaale's never married Arab or Persian women

 

[Angelina]

No such thing as small group of assimilated immigrants, in fact those hawiyes are immigrants from the interior

When those immigrants from Yemen or Oman or even India came, who were they confronted with? Was the coast of Somalia a wilderness with no inhabitants? Also, why would traders from Yemen and the like come to a completely empty place? Why would there be Omanis and Indians and Iranians if there was nothing to attract them?

There is no logic to your points. if the coast was completely uninhabited, why did your ancestors take on the Somali language? Where did they get wives when they first arrived? Were did they get food and milk and the list continues? There were clearly tribes living near the coast even if they didn’t live on the coast and they are the original inheritors of Somalia. People living near somewhere can’t be immigrant. It’s your ancestors who crossed a whole sea and travelled hundreds of miles to a new continent and land. They’re the real immigrants. Not a person who literally had to simply travel for 20km.

Sometimes I feel like there isn’t logic to your points.

 

[Angelina]

There weren't any Reer Samaale's that preceded native Gibil cads in the coast & you can't name any reer samaale group that preceded gibil cads in xamar or marka. Usually Arabs or Persians married from other older Arab or Persian tribes in the region. Also historically Reer Samaale's never married Arab or Persian women

Arabs and Persians migrated to the Somali coast. I’m talking about the first immigrants. Older Arab and Persians also migrated. That’s what makes them Arab or Persian. They’re from the Middle East.

We have old records to Hawiyes being in Merca in the Middle Ages.

Arabs are from Arabia, Persians are from Iran. Ethnic Somalis are from Somalia. Please explain how a man from Arabia or Persia who had to cross an ocean and travel 1000s of miles was in a place that a Geelgire probably has to travel to 50 miles?

Your ancestors were immigrants. They took on the local language which was and is Somali. If it was the Hawiyes that migrated, they would have took on Arabic or Persian and took on your culture, but you lot have took on our ways and traditions and now you don’t even have your original language.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

When those immigrants from Yemen or Oman or even India came, who were they confronted with? Was the coast of Somalia a wilderness with no inhabitants? Also, why would traders from Yemen and the like come to a completely empty place? Why would there be Omanis and Indians and Iranians if there was nothing to attract them?

There is no logic to your points. if the coast was completely uninhabited, why did your ancestors take on the Maxatiri language? Where did they get wives when they first arrived? Were did they get food and milk and the list continues? There were clearly tribes living near the coast even if they didn’t live on the coast and they are the original inheritors of Somalia. People living near somewhere can’t be immigrant. It’s your ancestors who crossed a whole sea and travelled hundreds of miles to a new continent and land. They’re the real immigrants. Not a person who literally had to simply travel for 20km.

Never said it was empty or uninhabited, looks like you're blinded with delusion to the point you think reer samaale's somehow inhabited every inch of the horn throughout history.


Depending on which wave of Arab migration you're talking about they were confronted obviously with earlier Arabs that preceded them

The world doesn't revolve around Samaale and Samaale wasn't born 20 km from xamar or marka , samaale and whoever his clansmen were and his descendants resided in Eastern Ethiopia initially . It took longer to come from baadiya in east Africa on foot than by sea from Yemen . Arabs and Persians came in groups not individuals .

Why is it that there's no Ancient Reer Samaale mundul xaafad in Xamar or Marka that's atleast 600 years old? Or any gravesites, or any masjids built by them if they were Muslim at the time?

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Arabs and Persians migrated to the Banadiri coast. I’m talking about the first immigrants. Older Arab and Persians also migrated. That’s what makes them Arab or Persian. They’re from the Middle East.

We have old records to Hawiyes being in Merca in the Middle Ages.

Nope, no record of hawiyes somehow having some ancient mundul xaafad in marka that apparently was invaded by Arabs . The hawiyes that have been in marka and have right to say they're reer marka are known like shukureere and juunji

Arabs are from Arabia, Persians are from Iran. Ethnic Somalis are from Somalia. Please explain how a man from Arabia or Persia who had to cross an ocean and travel 1000s of miles was in a place that a Geelgire probably has to travel to 50 miles?

Your ancestors were immigrants. They took on the local language which was and is Somali. If it was the Hawiyes that migrated, they would have took on Arabic or Persian and took on your culture, but you lot have took on our ways and traditions and now you don’t even have your original language.

Arabs don't only live in Arabia nor do Persians only live in Persia nor do Samaale's only live in the horn. It takes longer for a geeljire to wander with his livestock to the coast from galbeed than an Arab arriving by boat to the coast. No evidence of local language of coast being Af Maxatiri during the period of Arab migrations throughout history ,when in reality those Arabs were there when Maxatiri speakers were in their ancestral land.

The fact that Gaal Madow tribes in interior preceded Maxatiri speakers also backs it up

 

[Angelina]

Never said it was empty or uninhabited, looks like you're blinded with delusion to the point you think reer samaale's somehow inhabited every inch of the horn throughout history.

Who were there? And why did Arabs and Persians take on the Reer Samaale tongue and tradition?

Depending on which wave of Arab migration you're talking about they were confronted obviously with earlier Arabs that preceded them

When those earlier Arabs came, who did they first see? Was the land completely empty? Who lived there?

The world doesn't revolve around Samaale and Samaale wasn't born 20 km from xamar or marka , samaale and whoever his clansmen were and his descendants resided in Eastern Ethiopia initially . It took longer to come from baadiya in east Africa on foot than by sea from Yemen . Arabs and Persians came in groups not individuals .

Cushites or Proto Somalis originated in Sudan more than 5 thousand years ago. Before the existence of Arabs. Somalis were in the horn before Arabs came. For more than 3000 yrs, the forefathers of ethnic Somalis were in the Somali regions and that is when Arab culture and group were forming. Clearly Arabs didn’t come to Somalia before Somalis.

Why is it that there's no Ancient Reer Samaale mundul xaafad in Xamar or Marka that's atleast 600 years old? Or any gravesites, or any masjids built by them if they were Muslim at the time?

We literally have travelers like Ibn Battuta who notes that Reer Moqdishu during the Middle Ages btw at the time spoke the Moqdishu tongue, a language that wasn’t Arabic or Persian. Arabs and Persians speak their language respectively. That tongue that Ibn Battuta heard was clearly an early form of Somali. Why weren’t those early Arabs and Persians in Somalia speaking their language?

No matter how you spin it, there is no logic to it.

 

[Angelina]

Nope, no record of hawiyes somehow having some ancient mundul xaafad in marka that apparently was invaded by Arabs . The hawiyes that have been in marka and have right to say they're reer marka are known like shukureere and juunji

Invasion? Reer Xamaris never invaded anything. Like I said your forefathers were simply migrant traders. There simply wasn’t enough of you lot to be able to invade anything and nothing in history suggests an invasion.

Arabs don't only live in Arabia nor do Persians only live in Persia nor do Samaale's only live in the horn.

You’re re-creating facts and it’s concerning. The homelands of the Arabs is indeed the Arabian peninsula. Only after the Islamic conquest did other groups like the Shamis, the Egyptians and the Maghrebis take on Arab identity. This is a fact that you can’t escape.

It takes longer for a geeljire to wander with his livestock to the coast from galbeed than an Arab arriving by boat to the coast. No evidence of local language of coast being Af Maxatiri during the period of Arab migrations throughout history ,when in reality those Arabs were there when Maxatiri speakers were in their ancestral land.

Reer Xamaris speak Somali as their first language. They speak Somali and Af Madoonti or whatever you like to call it is basic Af maxatiri with a different accent. That is proof enough. You took on the language of those that you came to. As reer Xamaris you don’t have your own language and many of you lot don’t even speak Arabic as a first language unless you learn it later in life.

You’re delusional at this point. Where is your language? Why don’t you lot still speak Arabic as a first language?

The fact that Gaal Madow tribes in interior preceded Maxatiri speakers also backs it up

Proceeded? What do you mean by that point?

 

[awsaleban667]

There weren't any Reer Samaale's that preceded native Gibil cads in the coast & you can't name any reer samaale group that preceded gibil cads in xamar or marka. Usually Arabs or Persians married from other older Arab or Persian tribes in the region. Also historically Reer Samaale's never married Arab or Persian women

Reer Samaale preceded them in Barawa even you admitted this

 

[awsaleban667]

No evidence of local language of coast being Af Maxatiri during the period of Arab migrations throughout history ,when in reality those Arabs were there when Maxatiri speakers were in their ancestral land.

Ok but serious question what language did they speak if it wasn’t Somali? Ibn Battuta clearly mentions that the sultan spoke 2 languages so what was the other language? Swahili? Oromo? Mushunguli?

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Reer Samaale preceded them in Barawa even you admitted this

I said Xamar and Marka, as for the garre's in barawa then they lived separately and Arabs and persians started their settlements adjacent to them

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Ok but serious question what language did they speak if it wasn’t Somali? Ibn Battuta clearly mentions that the sultan spoke 2 languages so what was the other language? Swahili? Oromo? Mushunguli?

Wasn't swahili or afaan oromo or mushunguli or maxatiri. As Maxatiri speakers weren't in xamar during that time. Closest thing to Maqdishi would be Maadoonte

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Invasion? Reer Xamaris never invaded anything. Like I said your forefathers were simply migrant traders. There simply wasn’t enough of you lot to be able to invade anything and nothing in history suggests an invasion.

I'm talking about Marka not xamar, atleast concentrate when you're waffling, you claimed that hawiyes ( other than the known hawiyes of marka: Shukureere & Juunji) somehow had medieval presence . So that only leads one to assume that they were invaded as those hawiyes don't exist there anymore, unless you want us to believe that their mythical medieval munduls were left in ruins till modern day .

You’re re-creating facts and it’s concerning. The homelands of the Arabs is indeed the Arabian peninsula. Only after the Islamic conquest did other groups like the Shamis, the Egyptians and the Maghrebis take on Arab identity. This is a fact that you can’t escape.

So Arabs didn't live outside of Arabia before Islam was spread?

Reer Xamaris speak Somali as their first language. They speak Somali and Af Madoonti or whatever you like to call it is basic Af maxatiri with a different accent. That is proof enough. You took on the language of those that you came to. As reer Xamaris you don’t have your own language and many of you lot don’t even speak Arabic as a first language unless you learn it later in life.

Firstly, either say Reer Xamar or Xamari not Reer Xamari as that's grammatically incorrect, now that you've been corrected don't repeat that silly mistake again.
Af Maadoonte isn't Maxatiri, different alphabet, grammar etc , completely different with different accents along with coast. Arabic was the language of Education and Trade, everything was documented and inscripted in Arabic except for some Shirazi's that documented in their language.

You’re delusional at this point. Where is your language? Why don’t you lot still speak Arabic as a first language?

Only delusion I'm seeing is from your structured waffling

Proceeded? What do you mean by that point?

Preceded as I said , it was typed in clear English, focus more on concentrating on what's being said than brainstorming waffle on the spot

 

[awsaleban667]

Wasn't swahili or afaan oromo or mushunguli or maxatiri. As Maxatiri speakers weren't in xamar during that time. Closest thing to Maqdishi would be Maadoonte

How did the Arabs adopt a Cushitic language if there were no Somalis there originally

 

[awsaleban667]

I said Xamar and Marka, as for the garre's in barawa then they lived separately and Arabs and persians started their settlements adjacent to them

When Al Dimashqi, Ibn Sa’id, and Yaqui Al Hamawi mentioned Hawiye in Merca what group were they talking about?

 

[Three Moons]

Why is it that there's no Ancient Reer Samaale mundul xaafad in Xamar or Marka that's atleast 600 years old? Or any gravesites, or any masjids built by them if they were Muslim at the time?

Why would the oldest quarter in Mogadishu be named Xamar Jajab and not the Arabic or Farsi equivalent for ‘Broken’ if the city didn’t have a Somali foundation to begin with? Why would there be multiple ancient mosques with the prefix ‘Aw’ in Mogadishu and Merka like the 13th century Aw Muqtaar Mosque or the Aw Sheikh Omar Mosque instead of Arabic and Persian honorifics? (Nisbahs of commissioned architects doesn’t count, or we could call the Taj Mahal a Persian mausoleum by that logic)

Why was Somalia’s coastline known as Bilad al-Barbar or Barr as-Sumal and not Bilad al-Arab or Bilad Faris if these were indeed Persian and Arab settlements? Why couldn’t medieval individuals like Ibn Battuta, that actually visited those cities in their Golden Age, point out his fellow Arab and Persians, when he had done so multiple times when writing about cities in the Middle-East?